Technomancer questions (SR4A) Options

[Draco18s]

Won't the guy with 5 lost Essence have to pay his way up from 1-6 twice? He can't have Magic 1, get 5 points of cyberware, and then go up to 9 - his magic'd drop to 0 which, as I understand it, irrevocably burns him out. It's not much, admittedly, but it's something.

It's done in stages, obviously.

Yes, you have to pay for points 2 to 6 twice, but I thought the whole point was that you had to buy to magic 12 then get 6 points of cyber/bio to have magic 6 afterwards, regardless of the order in which you buy things (buying magic 12, then cyber costs MORE karma "Tyger Eye's Way" that buying magic 6, 5 points of cyber, magic 6 again, and 1 point of cyber*).

Either way, some clarification needs to be put into the book.

*If you have 1 Essence and 1 Magic and 0 Initiations you can initiate and go up 1 point max magic, which allows for a 2ns point of magic. Do this as much as you want, finishing up with an initiation, then spend that last point of essence. Provided that you never go below 0 Essence your Magic, Max Magic, Initiations, and Max Initiations will all be the same value (you would be unable to raise any of them).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'll admit that I'm not the best person to ask about this. But for what it's worth, here's the actual text:



and



So, to me, it sounds like it actually reduces your attribute, and you need to spend the karma to raise it back to that level. It doesn't drop your "functional" attribute (note we don't say magic 4 (3) -- there is only ever one stat for magic, unlike attributes that are modified by something). So, you start out in character generation with a Resonance 5. You pay your BP to get resonance 5 (40 BP). You get 1 essence worth of 'ware, and your Resonance drops to 4. You've already paid to have it be 5 (you buy resonance prior to the 'ware; so you've just blown 10 BP for the privilage of having that ware). Once game play starts, you have a Resonance 4, and a Max of 5. You want to increase it, and you pay 5*5 (25) karma to get it to 5. If you want to raise it to 6, you must submerge once & pay 6*5 (30) karma.

The penalty comes during chargen. If in game play, a TM with Resonance 5 gets some ware, then their resonance drops to 4 (totally screwing up their living persona, I bet), and they'd have to paid again to bring it back to 5.

Either way, you pay twice for that point you lose.

See, This is the way we have always don it... "Lose" being the operative word in all the quotes of the Text...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Tyger Eyes, then the amount of Karma that a (near) cyberzombie pays to increase their magic isn't exorbitantly huge:

Magic 1, Max 1, 0 initiations

to

Magic 9, Max 9, 8 initiations.

Is the same cost for a normal mage to awaken and raise his magic to 9 and get 8 initiations.

And he doesn't have the cyberware penalties!

This is also very true, IF a cyber zombie could raise their magic attribute, WHICH THEY CANNOT DO... Page 157 (Augmentation) under Dual Nature heading...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is also very true, IF a cyber zombie could raise their magic attribute, WHICH THEY CANNOT DO... Page 157 (Augmentation) under Dual Nature heading...

Sorry, Misread what you intended... Saw Cyberzombie and assumed

However, you could do exactly what you show... it would be cheap, and if that is something that you don't want to do as a GM, there are ways around it... like the 'ware that was obtained was unknowingly used 'ware... the implantation then reduces the attrubute below 1 and you now have a burnout... easy peasy...

I have not seen anyone abuse that to the extreme that you posit in play, but I guess it could happen...

2 Cents

[Draco18s]

Oh sure, the GM can do things like that. But by RAW it's a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It's like Pun-Pun in D&D, no GM would ever allow the Divine Minion cheese.

Or Rodrigo, who, I think, is tangentially related to the Pornomancer. I never did ask Jim for the build on him.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh sure, the GM can do things like that. But by RAW it's a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It's like Pun-Pun in D&D, no GM would ever allow the Divine Minion cheese.

Or Rodrigo, who, I think, is tangentially related to the Pornomancer. I never did ask Jim for the build on him.

Your right... perfectly acceptable by RAW

[Veggiesama]

To get back to the original topic a little, look at question #1 (the Switching Initiative one).

Is there any huge exploit potential if your IPs for a combat turn changed immediately, rather than only at the start of a new turn?

Example: My technomancer has 1 meat IP. For his action, his switches to VR (free) and starts exploiting a node (complex). His initiative score is shifted upwards (per the rules), but let's say his IPs also raise from 1 to 3. That leaves him with 2 more IPs this turn.

I don't see that as all that bad. Nobody gets mad at street sams for leaving their wired reflexes on 24/7, even though turning that on is supposed to be a free action. Am I missing something?

[Ryu]

Is there any huge exploit potential if your IPs for a combat turn changed immediately, rather than only at the start of a new turn?

We didn´t know of that rule and gave them out immediately the whole time. You might run into attempts to sell you on 3 physical IPs / change to VR in the last pass / spend 3 matrix IPs, which is pretty wrong. (No, we didn´t have that issue.)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Never tried that option... how does it work for you, Any problems

[tarbrush]

Arise my minion!

Apologies for the threadomancy, but I have more technomancer questions.

The echo Swap. Does it reduce the sustaining penalty for all the complex forms that you're sustaining?

Defragmentation. What exactly does it heal?

Threading. Can I thread a complex form higher that my System/Logic? Do unsustained threads last only for the purposes of a single check, or is it longer than that?

[Ryu]

The echo Swap. Does it reduce the sustaining penalty for all the complex forms that you're sustaining?

Defragmentation. What exactly does it heal?

Threading. Can I thread a complex form higher that my System/Logic? Do unsustained threads last only for the purposes of a single check, or is it longer than that?

Swap: Counts once against the complete sustaining penalty.

Defragmentation: All damage that would normally end up on the matrix condition monitor.

Threading: If what you write is correct, SR4A introduced some changes there. [Old answer: 2*resonance / threading has to be sustained (dropping it after the test is fine).]

[tarbrush]

Threading: If what you write is correct, SR4A introduced some changes there. [Old answer: 2*resonance / threading has to be sustained (dropping it after the test is fine).]

I have no idea whether it's right or not. My thinking was that threading increases the rating of a complex form, rather than providing a bonus. Complex forms are directly equivalent to programs. Programs are limited to the system rating of the device they're running on.

=> Even after threading, a the max rating your complex form can 'run' at is limited by your Logic. The benefit of the 2*Res rule is only worthwhile when your Logic>Resonance.

Correct? Or have I missed something?

And thanks for the other answers. I though swap looked a bit too good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ryu]

Complex forms are not programs, even if they are based on them. You can happily bring your stealth to 10+ while your logic is 3. Have fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[tarbrush]

Okaaay. So then why do I care about my logic score? The odds of meeting another technomancer and having them try and crash my living persona seem vanishingly small, and what else am I using System for?

[Draco18s]

Okaaay. So then why do I care about my logic score? The odds of meeting another technomancer and having them try and crash my living persona seem vanishingly small, and what else am I using System for?

You don't.
Even Technomancers are script kiddies.

[Jaid]

damage resist tests use system. depending on your stream (and especially if you don't have unwired) you resist fading with logic also, iirc. also, there are a few (albeit not many) tests that use system, iirc. they don't come up quite as often though...

[Abschalten]

Logic is important because it's your System attribute. Technomancers only get System x 2 for a subscription limit, and they can't go past that like mundane hackers/riggers can (at the cost of Response performance.) Slaved devices count towards this (yes, this is your vehicles, drones, smartlinked guns, any nodes you are currently active in or hacking into, etc.)

It's good to have Logic at 4, 5 if you can help it, so you have a good subscription limit, especially if you are a dronomancer and liable to be involved with a drone swarm or vehicle fleet all at the same time.

[tarbrush]

Ok, that makes a bit more sense. I've been trying to build a TM and assuming that I needed 6 logic minimum just to run CFs worth a damn, but it seems 4-5 will do just fine. Thanks everyone.

Next question (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Is there a limit other than Res*2 for taking CFs with BPs? If I start with res 5 is there anything stopping me starting with say Blackhammer 10?

[Ryu]

Yeah, remind me to make complete arguments.

Resonance limits your "natural" CF rating.
Resonance*2 limits your threaded CF rating.

Logic*2 limits your chargen number of CFs.


Your way to Blackhammer 10 is Blackhammer 5 + a "registered sprite rating 5" service ("Support Blackhammer please." or "Allocate processing cycles to blackhammer!").

[tarbrush]

Hmmm. Man, this is complicated. Thanks again.

I have to say a propos of not much, I really do like the fact that technomancers can follow the same basic rules mechanics as deckers and yet feel completely different.

[Aaron]

Hmmm. Man, this is complicated. Thanks again.

It's a steak dinner: best digested one bite at a time. Now that I think about it, most RPGs are.

I have to say a propos of not much, I really do like the fact that technomancers can follow the same basic rules mechanics as deckers and yet feel completely different.

I've come to the same conclusion. It's also the reason, I think, why the Matrix rules are so different from the rules for magic and for physical actions. While I've never said so to the guy who wrote them in Unwired (and I could), I think it would do a disservice to the feel of the game if the optional rules that make the Matrix work more like either magic or the physical world are used.

[tarbrush]

Hey, guess what, I have more questions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Firstly, can technomancers write software for, say, drones, using the technomancer version of the software skill?

Machine Sprites. Can I send a machine sprite into a drone to effectively 'override' the original pilot in a drone, and use the sprites pilot rating and autosofts instead? If I can, can the sprite use any existing autosofts in the drone?

Can I use tutor sprites to teach me activesofts? The phrase "In storage he can access" in the emulating rules gives me issues with this?

Should skillwire expert system be available as an unrated complex form, and would the actual cyberware function with Biowire?

Thanks in advance.

Again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Ryu]

I´ll leave the first questions to someone who already has SR4A.

I would not permit you to learn/copy skillsoft CFs from a tutor sprite, with the ingame justification you give. Biowire with (effectivly) free skillsofts is a bit too good, more so relativly to skillwires given the increased price of skillsofts. One could easily rule this differently though.

The skillwire expert system should not be available for Biowire IMO. You can emulate skillsofts with the DIMAP option if you want.

[Unnamed Technoma...]

To get back to the original topic a little, look at question #1 (the Switching Initiative one).

Is there any huge exploit potential if your IPs for a combat turn changed immediately, rather than only at the start of a new turn?

Example: My technomancer has 1 meat IP. For his action, his switches to VR (free) and starts exploiting a node (complex). His initiative score is shifted upwards (per the rules), but let's say his IPs also raise from 1 to 3. That leaves him with 2 more IPs this turn.

I don't see that as all that bad. Nobody gets mad at street sams for leaving their wired reflexes on 24/7, even though turning that on is supposed to be a free action. Am I missing something?

Veggiesama’s questions have sparked a question of my own. My Technomancer has 2 real world IPs (due to Acceleration) so if I go into VR on my first IP I should still get my second IP in the matrix (is this correct?) . would my initiative score then shift from the meet world (base 10 + hits scored) to my matrix (base 11 + ?? hits scored on the base 10 roll???)

So I guess I have 2 question
1) when I switch from meet world to matrix do I keep my remaining IP
2) what would my initiative score be once I’m in the matrix

[Ryu]

Initiative score: Pre-SR4A (German pg. 134), you adjust your result by the difference in basic initiative, in your example 10(+hits scored) + (11-10) = 11(+old number of hits).

The number of IPs is set to the lower value, in your case min(2;3) = 2.