BANG! BANG! BANG! "Well, he did have a spell on him - he must've been dangerous!", Sustained spells for non-criminals. Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[HappyDaze]

Besides the ward problem, walking around with a sustained spell, directly designates you as trouble for anyone who is astrally perceiving.

The assumption is that all sustained spells are 'combat buffs' and that having them on is like walking around town with a shotgun in your hands. This is often especially true with sustaining foci and quickening. I've seen this appear quite often on Dumpshock, and I disagree with it.

There are a great many spells that non-ciminals would love to have cast on them and sustained via foci or quickened. The Health spells provide such things as boosts to Charisma, Intuition, Logic, and Willpower - things that would certainly come in handy for corporate execs and researchers. Firefighters and divers would both love Oxygenate. Alleviate Allergy and Alleviate Addiction should be reasonable treatment plans for the elite with such problems. In fact, I'm sure that somewhere in the Sixth World, hair loss and male enhancement have been the subject of spell research too. Detection, Illusion, and even Manipulation spells can certinly find some legitimate use too, although the book-provided spells are generally oriented towards the needs of a runner team so fewer examples are available.

I guess that I'm just having a bit of a knee-jerk reaction against what seems to be metagaming (Oh, it's a spell - most of the ones in the book are best for illegal crap - so that guy with the spell on him must be up to something.).

[hobgoblin]

iirc, if one can see that its a spell, 1 or more added successes can tell one the specific spell...

[HappyDaze]

If you take the time to Assense, not simply at a glance.

[blindfox]

the same applies to various forms of cybertechnology and genetech, as well. simply having cybered limbs doesnt necessarily make you a dangerous person. there's also context to consider. if im an awakened lone star on foot patrol and i find someone bearing a sustained spell im going to notice that person and judge their actions. if i have the time and the subject isn't standing in a crowd of other folks with sustained spells im going to try to assense what magics he is using. if i dont have the time to do a thorough check on him i will note what he is doing and if his actions are out of place i will then bring it to the attention of my comrades as a possible threat. if he begins to show suspicious activity we may stop him and ascertain his intentions. this doesnt mean i am on high alert, approaching with the full might of my magics ready to blast him and my weapon at the high-ready. if he then shows hostile intent i use whatever means i need, through escalations of force, to eliminate the threat.
so to your point, daze, i agree with you

[eidolon]

Absolutely agree. On both HD's and fox's points.

It's not only metagaming, it's blatant disregard for the game world fluff and fiction.

[Tanegar]

In fact, I'm sure that somewhere in the Sixth World, hair loss and male enhancement have been the subject of spell research too.

OK, now I totally want to make a mage with Grow Hair and Enlarge Wang spells.

I wonder what happens when you cast Enlarge Wang on a woman...

[hyzmarca]

Clitoromegaly.

[Draco18s]

Clitoromegaly.

I'm imagining something akin to a female hyena (the malest of the male hyenas are in fact female).

[HappyDaze]

I wonder what happens when you cast Enlarge Wang on a woman...

Nothing - Enlarge Wang has a restricted target (males) adjustment to reduce the Drain.

The male subject's member increases in length by 1 cm per hit (up to a maximum increase equal to the force of the spell) and girth increases proportionally.

Oh...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)
I'm not the only one that actually has weird spells like this statted out am I?

[Stahlseele]

Yes you are . .
Create Bullshit ain't weird <.< . .

[Veggiesama]

I guess I missed that part on the character sheet.

[nezumi]

If you're not rich and you have a spell on you, it's probably illegal.

If you're not uber-rich and you have a spell above force 3 on you, it's probably illegal.

[Draco18s]

If you're not rich and you have a spell on you, it's probably illegal.

If you're not uber-rich and you have a spell above force 3 on you, it's probably illegal.

So the poor magician can't cast any kind of spell ever.

Gotcha.

[suppenhuhn]

Well, iirc spells above force 3 require a permit, so will probably get the same reaction as someone openly carrying a gun or somesuch.

[eidolon]

If an awakened officer saw you, astral scanned you, and assensed you, I can see him wandering over to ask if you have a permit for that spell, why you're using it, etc. Anyone can see a gun on your hip. Very few people can see that spell you have going.

Anyone else? What the hell do they know? Could be totally legit. Don't forget that you've got to be able to assense to tell what it is in the first place, so who's going to hassle you? Another random mage on the street that happened to notice the spell, assense you, and wants to play good Samaritan? Not likely. One, he doesn't want you to kill him. Two, he's likely got a few tricks of his own that the five-oh don't know about/like.

It just breaks the fourth wall to have everyone going "omg! force 3 spell on him get him get him."

[Stahlseele]

Also, what happens if the spell is cast on SOMEBODY ELSE?
like the troll mage casting charisma on the poor orc to help him with a date?

[suppenhuhn]

If an awakened officer saw you, astral scanned you, and assensed you, I can see him wandering over to ask if you have a permit for that spell, why you're using it, etc. Anyone can see a gun on your hip. Very few people can see that spell you have going.

Which is the same thing that would happen to you if you carry a gun and are not in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If you are then any high force spell and/or gun might trigger some heftier reactions.

[SpasticTeapot]

There are a few small problems with this.

1. Magicians are really rare - only one in a few hundred people are actually capable of becoming one, and slightly less actually do. Of these, quite a lot end up attracted to shamanic totems completely unsuitable for Lone Star work (having a berserk combat mage around is almost always more of a liability than an asset.) As such, magically active beat cops are extremely rare - most of the mages are assigned to high-security targets or rapid response teams.

2. Astral perception is all fine and dandy, but picking out one magically active individual out of a huge crowd is nearly impossible - there's just too many people.

3. A competent magician can also pick out people with low Essence. Unlike magicians, many of whom specialize in curative medicine or other benign pursuits, the only reason someone would have an essence less than 1 is because he or she is a freaky killing machine.

[nezumi]

So the poor magician can't cast any kind of spell ever.

Gotcha.

No, they can't cast a spell while in a nice neighborhood. This is sort of a tautology though, because what is a poor person doing in a nice neighborhood anyway (cleaning people excepted, of course)? You should generally expect that, if you're in an A area or above, and you look poor, the police are going to harass you or, at minimum, give you the dirty eyeball. Damn poor people. If you don't like it, stop being poor.

[kzt]

It just breaks the fourth wall to have everyone going "omg! force 3 spell on him get him get him."

But as he bounces off the wards on the doors of a lot of places....

[eidolon]

No, they can't cast a spell while in a nice neighborhood.

Why not? This isn't D&D, where casting a spell means flailing around chanting in fake languages and sprinkling bat shit on yourself (not knocking it, love me some D&D). You think "I guess I'll cast a spell" and you cast it. You can even do it while walking and chewing gum. (I'm being slightly facetious; I realize that there are rules for noticing that somebody is casting.)

So my problem with this notion of "everyone will know you have an illegal spell going you can never cast one anywhere aaaarrrrrrrgg" still stands. It doesn't matter what kind of neighborhood you're in, somebody that's capable of detecting not only that you have a spell up, but also that it's restricted still has to have a reason to check you out, and check you out successfully, before you even begin to have to worry. On top of that, a good fake license, fake SIN, and a fake story (not even necessarily all three) are the next step.

You might argue that in a nice neighborhood there are more potential entities that have the capability to notice (more police presence, more astral security presence in the form of watchers maybe, etc.), but they still have to have a reason to notice and then pick you out and assense you. It's still not the instant arrest/death sentence some people seem to be arguing that it is.

[Adarael]

...And quite frankly, if you toss up an increase charisma/bullet barrier/detect enemies spell in a nice neigborhood and your fake licence on your fake SIN checks out according to Astral Perception Cop's commlink, he has all the more incentive NOT to bother you unless you're behaving in a suspicious manner. Why? Because the rich people that live there pay the cops to be unobtrusive. Rich people can afford those spells. Rich people expect to be deferred to, as well, not questioned by someone that makes a tenth what they do.

Cops constantly heckling every corporate mage or dude with a mage friend iat the country club is a good way to annoy those people, and they have the money and influence to suggest your zeal may better serve the community in a more dangerous and less expensive area of town. Where people are less likely to be annoyed by inane questions - or at least less likely to be able to do anything about it.

[Writer]

"I'm a mage. People want to hurt me. Are you telling me it is illegal to protect myself with an Armor spell?"

"Normally, I don't think so well. I have this gift of magic, so under my tutors guidance, I learned Increase Logic. Now, I can do my own shopping. Do you want to take away my corporation given rights to think?" (Okay, so maybe that last bit will need some Fast-Talk.)

"It is a new spell called Comfort. It makes my new clothes feel very comfortable. See my smile? The spell is working."

"I'm going to help a friend move, so I cast Increase Strength on myself."

"I'm going bird watching, so I have Detect Birds sustained."

"That beautiful scent you smell? Just an illusion. Smells good, though, doesn't it?"

"THAT CONSTANT STREAM OF FIRE COMING FROM MY FINGERTIPS? THAT IS MY VENGENCE UPON --" *BLAM* *BLAM* *BLAM*
"Yes, sir, we found the disturbence. Situation Resolved. Alert the fire department."

[suppenhuhn]

My point is simply that when you intend to run around with a spell of force 4 quite often you may want to get a (fake) license for it.
Just like the guy who carries a pistol.
I don't see a reason for exceptions there.

[nezumi]

You think "I guess I'll cast a spell" and you cast it. You can even do it while walking and chewing gum. (I'm being slightly facetious; I realize that there are rules for noticing that somebody is casting.)

Indeed, if your point is that no one would notice you have a spell cast, that is a valid argument. I was assuming, a priori, that we're talking about a situation where, for whatever reason, the police notice you casting/sustaining the spell first (maybe you have trouble in a ward. Maybe it has obvious effects. Whatever.)

I agree, if the police cannot detect you have a spell sustained, they will not target you for that particular reason. Since less than 1% of the population is capable of astral projection, and most of them are going to find better jobs than beat cop, it is seriously unlikely you're going to get in much trouble for that reason. Perhaps a civilian might notice and tell the police to harass you, but in that case, that civilian is already rich and you're already poor, and they can make up whatever reason they like (the police can't easily verify the story), so they aren't actually picking on you specifically for sustaining a spell.


However, they'll still harass you for being poor.