Looking for Logic Skill Boosts, My Medic isn't hitting their Healing cap yet Options

[Heath Robinson]

As a purely theoretical optimisation test I've been trying to make the most obviously ridiculous Medic possible. I've got quite a few abusive elements in there already but I'm only on 29 First Aid dice. The break down is 10 (Logic) + 11 (Skill) + 6 (Medkit) + 1 (Encephalon 1) + 1 (PuSHeD) = 29

Given that my healing cap is 10 this is rather disappointing. Can Dumpshock help?

EDIT:
Updated build to latest version

EDIT2:
Updated to account for Autosofts granting bonus dice to "trained medtechs" when loaded into Medkits and Autodocs

EDIT3:
Replaced a few adept powers

EDIT4:
Trance doesn't work

[ Spoiler ]

Doc Ripper
The Medic
The healing leaves little time for the killing.

Human

B/S/A/R
2/2/3/3

L/I/W/C
8(11)/3/3/2

Edg/Ess/Mag
2/4.725/5(3)

Qualities
Aptitude (First Aid)
SURGE 2: Metagenetic Improvement (Logic), Critter Spook, Impaired Strength
Adept
Restricted Gear

Skills
First Aid 7 (10) (Combat Wounds +2)
Pistols 1 (Semi-Automatics +2)
Dodge 2 (Ranged +2)
Pilot Ground Vehicle 1 (Wheeled +2)
Medicine 3 (4)
Cybertechnology 3

Adept Powers
Improved First Aid 3
Sustenance
Nimble Fingers
Improved Medicine 1
Heightened Concentration
Muilti-tasking

Augmentations
Encephalon 1
Cerebral Booster 3*
PuSHeD
Genetic Optimisation (Logic)

Gear
Medkit 6
10 tabs of Psyche
First Aid 4 Autosoft

Remaining
10 BP
400 Nuyen
24 BP gear allowance
5 BP Positive Quality allowance
35 BP Negative Quality allowance

Important DPs
First Aid: 11 (Logic) + 10 (First Aid) + 6 (Medkit) + 1 (PuSHeD) + 1 (Encephalon 1) + 1 (Psyche) + 4 (Autosoft) = 34 [9+1/3 boxes / 8+1/3 under realistic conditions]
First Aid (Combat Wounds): First Aid + 2 (Specialisation) = 36 [10 boxes / 9 under realistic conditions]
First Aid (Dronegaggle): First Aid + 10 (Teamwork) + 3 (Trained Assistants) + 3 (TacNet) = 49 [10 boxes under all conditions]
First Aid (Dronegaggle + Combat Wounds) = First Aid (Dronegaggle) + 2 (Specialisation) = 51 [10 boxes under all conditions]

[Tiger Eyes]

Machine sprite using Diagnostics on medkit. With such a high skill, it can potentially add up to your skill in extra dice to the test (you'd need a really high rating sprite, though).

Specialization in First Aid: Combat Wounds.

[Muspellsheimr]

Skill augmented maximum is 10, not 11.

[Heath Robinson]

Machine sprite using Diagnostics on medkit. With such a high skill, it can potentially add up to your skill in extra dice to the test (you'd need a really high rating sprite, though).

Specialization in First Aid: Combat Wounds.

Good idea. Unfortunately this character won't ever see play and I don't think I can call that an integral part of the character. For a start, any GM would nix a character that can put the Troll Tank back together after said Troll Tank gets hit by an Anti-Tank missile.


One of the criticisms levelled at the Pornomancer is that they only achieve their peak DP in one area. I'd like to be able to patch people taking K10 back together after they come down off it, as well as the Anti-Tank missile thing. Preferably subsequently.

Skill augmented maximum is 10, not 11.

Isn't the rule Skill Rating * 1.5? SR4 rounding default is up from what I remember.

[Ryu]

The limit is not rounded, as it does not have to be. "Not higher than 10.5" is essentially the same as "not higher than 10".

[Muspellsheimr]

Isn't the rule Skill Rating * 1.5? SR4 rounding default is up from what I remember.

Augmented maximums round down. Everything else (that I am aware of) rounds in the players favor.

[DireRadiant]

Psyche?
Overdrive, Trance.

[Heath Robinson]

Psyche?
Overdrive, Trance.

Can't use Psyche - this character is at their Augmented Logic max.
Overdrive they can use, but the 8S is pretty bad if they pick up some stun from elsewhere.
Can't use Trance - that causes paralysis, and you need to be able to get to your patient.

Accounting for my mistakes about the Augmented max cap calculations the pool is now 10 (Logic) + 10 (Skill) + 6 (Medkit) + 1 (Encephalon 1) + 1 (PuSHeD) = 28. This is terrible. To reliably hit this character's healing cap, accounting for the Threshold of 2 and healing a fractional Essence Sam in Combat I need 42 dice. It doesn't look like there are 14 dice of extra Logic skill bonuses available.

Depending on rulings, this character could get either 0, 4, or about 8 dice from having a gaggle of Drones assisting them. Not including that in the above calculation, pending comments. I hate to rely on Drones, because they're prone to getting shot and aren't stealthy in the least, and because it's a cheap "optimisation" technique.

Supporting skills of Medicine and Cybertechnology have 10 (Logic) + 4 (Medicine) + 1 (Encephalon 1) + 1 (PuSHeD) = 16 and 10 (Logic) + 3 (Cybertechnology) + 1 (Encephalon 1) + 1 (PuSHeD) = 15 respectively. Mostly these are thanks to the extra points freed up from dropping magic off the hard cap. They also have something in the region of 25 BP still left, and .9 essence available.

Character follows (since more has changed than just lowering Improved First Aid and adding another Power in its place).

[ Spoiler ]

Doc Fleming
The Medic
The healing leaves little time for the killing.

Human

B/S/A/R
3/2/3/3

L/I/W/C
7(10)/3/3/3

Edg/Ess/Mag
2/4.9/5(3)

Qualities
Aptitude (First Aid)
SURGE 2 - Metagenetic Improvement (Logic), Slow Healer
Adept
Restricted Gear x1

Skills
First Aid 7 (10)
Pistols 1 (Semi-Automatics +2)
Dodge 2 (Ranged +2)
Pilot Ground Vehicle (Wheeled +2)
Medicine 3 (4)
Cybertechnology 3

Adept Powers
Improved First Aid 3
Empathic Healing
Pain Relief
Sustenance
Nimble Fingers
Improved Medicine

Augmentations
Encephalon 1
Cerebral Booster 3*
PuSHeD

Gear
Medkit 6
First Aid 4 Autosoft with Optimisation 1
Renraku Manservant 3 x4

[DireRadiant]

Tacsoft bonus?

[Martin Silenus]

With 28 dice you're healing 9 boxes on average and you cap out at 10 with this build. Isn't that enough for most needs, especially with a magical healing chaser? With edge to reroll failures, you're going to get 13 net hits, on average, which is probably good enough to reliably cap out when you need to reliably cap out.

[Heath Robinson]

Tacsoft bonus?

Iffy. They'd only be able to gain a single die off it with my gaggle of Drones until I boost their Sensor to 6 (for a mere 4 800) and get the character a SimRig and Ultrasound Sensor. It's still a very expensive way to get those dice, and entirely subject to GM approval, which means I'm honouor bound not to include it in my calculations (for the same reason I'm not claiming the 8 teamwork dice from their Dronegaggle right now).

With 28 dice you're healing 9 boxes on average and you cap out at 10 with this build. Isn't that enough for most needs, especially with a magical healing chaser? With edge to reroll failures, you're going to get 13 net hits, on average, which is probably good enough to reliably cap out when you need to reliably cap out.

You're forgetting about the Threshold of 2. That's only 7 measly boxes. That's not even Nitro. The point of theoretical optimisation is to paint a doom'n'gloom picture of a world where the Tank Trolls are immune to even being shot with the Anti-Tank missiles that form their only current foil. Reliably.

Plus, I'd rather use those Edge points for dodging bullets.

Edit: TIME TRAVEL HAX! I HAVE CONTROL OVER REALITY! Ahem.. forgot to take medication.

Well you could add a control rig and a Evo Orderly with med kit and go VR hot sim for addition 2 dice on the control device action

First Aid isn't a vehicle skill, and "Applying medical care remotely through medkit/autodoc –2" would apply to that. I could do it with a Manservant 3 in order to escape that clause through not being an Autodoc, but it's only worth it once I can't get 2 extra dice off that Manservant from Teamwork. If I can't use Manservants for Teamwork, then I have a spare Manservant for it.

[Night Jackal]

Well you could add a control rig and a Evo Orderly with med kit and go VR hot sim for addition 2 dice on the control device action

[Jaid]

Well you could add a control rig and a Evo Orderly with med kit and go VR hot sim for addition 2 dice on the control device action

evo orderly wouldn't be good. you'd need something with a valkyrie, but which is also not an autodoc (which, for some unfathomable reason, explicitly suffers a -2 mod according to augmentation for remote operation and does not allow use of medical skills as vehicle skills according to the same source).

so yeah, i'd say your actual best bet is probably a crazy technomancer doctor using remote-controlled drones and a massively boosted command CF.

if you start at resonance 6, you lose 1 essence for the genemods (no need for control rig or cerebral booster, btw).

so you use the command CF at 5, boost it to 10 with threading, boost it by 5 more with a registered sprite, pick up codeslinger in control device, and add in hotsim bonus... that's 19 + skill (presumably 7) for 26 dice + the genemods, total 28. make the node your home ground for another +2 dice, and you've got 30.

alternately, drop the genemods, and you can keep resonance 6 and command CF at 6, plus you can thread up to 6 potentially (it's just a matter of patience) plus you could always register a higher-rating sprite, plus you can throw in the diagnostics power for good measure (and compile/register the sprite as well as threading the CF in your home node of the medical drone, for good measure). sadly, no paragons give a bonus of any sort to using the command CF, but it would be plausible imo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Malachi]

So after this thread has reached its fruition are we going to have people complaining about the "medicmancer" break in SR4?

[Red-ROM]

we'll just have more people going for the dice cap option in SR4A (which I believe puts you at 20)

[Stahlseele]

Sorry, but healing damage is not really up there on the OMGWTFBROKEN! Scale for me O.o
At least, if you don't heal Drain Damage with that on yourself . .

[Shinobi Killfist]

Sorry, but healing damage is not really up there on the OMGWTFBROKEN! Scale for me O.o
At least, if you don't heal Drain Damage with that on yourself . .

I'm on the fence on this one. I think its cool you can get back in the game easily. But, combined with a spell slinging healer we have basically eliminated damage as a problem outside of the immediate fight. It feels very D&Dish to me, after the fight the cleric goes to work and everyone is full health and ready to move on.

I wouldn't mind seeing some long term injuries showing up in the game. Maybe increase the threshold by 1 for each level of wound penalty the target has. Add something similar for the heal spell and maybe people with 10 boxes of damage aren't right as rain after a couple minutes with a medkit and a heal spell.

[HappyDaze]

Augmented maximums round down. Everything else (that I am aware of) rounds in the players favor.

Everything rounds up! is a houserule that I use and encourage. It avoids having to remember what rounds up and what rounds down.

[Dakka Dakka]

I've got quite a few abusive elements in there already (like the ability to heal wounds twice)

How do you pull that of?

[Kainblueriver]

My impression is that you can not apply both first aid and magical healing to the same set of wounds (it is stated on pg 242 of the main core).

[Shinobi Killfist]

My impression is that you can not apply both first aid and magical healing to the same set of wounds (it is stated on pg 242 of the main core).

There is an order of operations, you can't magically heal then use first aid. But you can use first aid and then magically heal.

[Jhaiisiin]

Actually it says you can't use First Aid if magical healing has already been applied to that set of wounds. The other way around is not forbidden though.

EDIT: Damnit, SK beat me to it.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Actually it says you can't use First Aid if magical healing has already been applied to that set of wounds. The other way around is not forbidden though.

EDIT: Damnit, SK beat me to it.

Its almost like I ninjaed it. Shinobi Killfist style.

[Dragnar]

I think that's the first time I've heard a dicepool of 29 being described as "rather disappointing".
I love dumpshock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[The Jake]

Not to wear my "Asshole DM" hat but couldn't this be deliberate to avoid players laughing Death straight in the face?

- J.