Rate this character Options

[Machiavelli]

The following statistics show an street-sam variant that is mainly to cause damage without sucking too much by taking damage by itself. Up to now I don´t have a special purpose or backround story for him, but I think he is playable. Missing skills will be realized later due to the build-in skillwire expert system from the move-by-wire-system. Now have a look, it can only get better.^^

Attributes:
Race: Norm
Body: 2[6]
Agility: 5[7]
Strenght: 4[6]
Reaction: 4[8]
Intuition: 4
Charisma: 1
Logic: 4
Willpower: 4

Edge: 2
Essence: 0,15
Magic: ...you are funny.^^
Initiative: 12 + 3 IP´s

Skills:
Firearms-Skillgroup: 4
Close-Combat Skillgroup: 4
- cracked apart: Specialisation bladed weapons: Cyberimplant. weapons (Spurs)
Athletics-Skillgroup: 2
- cracked apart (houserule) during character creation: Gymnastics: 4 (+2) Specialization Athletics dodge
Perception: 2
Infiltration: 2
Tracking: 2

Cyberware:
Move-by-Wire System 2
Cybereyes rating 4 (full equipped with everything that makes sense-including radar sensor)
Cyberears rating 4 (see above)
2 Cyberspurs (just for the look)

Bioware:
Synthacardium rating 3
Enhanced articulation
Muscle toner & Muscle augmentation rating 2
Bone density rating 4

Edges:
Surge rating 3: (15)
Born rich: (10)
Restricted equipment: (5) (move by wire system)
Ambidexterous: (5)

Flaws:
not sure jet.

Equipment:
not much money left.

Surge effects:
Arcane arrester (25)
(the thing that increases walking rate, forgot the name): 5....Edit: celerity

Negative: Astral Hazing (10)

Connections:
5 points left for this, i think i will take a fixer

Question:
Due to the massive amount of bio- and cyberware, there is merely some money left. Up to now I am still swapping points to get at least basic equipment. At the moment, I just want your critics where e.g. possible mistakes are build in, which solutions don´t work RAW etc. Thank you very much in advance for your help.

[Stingray]

The following statistics show an street-sam variant that is mainly to cause damage without sucking too much by taking damage by itself. Up to now I don�t have a special purpose or backround story for him, but I think he is playable. Missing skills will be realized later due to the build-in skillwire expert system from the move-by-wire-system. Now have a look, it can only get better.^^

Attributes:
Race: Norm
Body: 2[6]
Agility: 5[7]
Strenght: 4[6]
Reaction: 4[8]
Intuition: 4
Charisma: 1
Logic: 4
Willpower: 4

Edge: 2
Essence: 0,15
Magic: ...you are funny.^^
Initiative: 12 + 3 IP´s

Skills:
Firearms-Skillgroup: 4
Close-Combat Skillgroup: 4
- cracked apart: Specialisation bladed weapons: Cyberimplant. weapons (Spurs)
Athletics-Skillgroup: 2
- cracked apart (houserule) during character creation: Gymnastics: 4 (+2) Specialization Athletics dodge
Perception: 2
Infiltration: 2
Tracking: 2

Cyberware:
Move-by-Wire System 2
Cybereyes rating 4 (full equipped with everything that makes sense-including radar sensor)
Cyberears rating 4 (see above)
2 Cyberspurs (just for the look)

Bioware:
Synthacardium rating 3
Enhanced articulation
Muscle toner & Muscle augmentation rating 2
Bone density rating 4

Edges:
Surge rating 3: (15)
Born rich: (10)
Restricted equipment: (5) (move by wire system)
Ambidexterous: (5)

Flaws:
not sure jet.

Equipment:
not much money left.

Surge effects:
Arcane arrester (25)
(the thing that increases walking rate, forgot the name): 5....Edit: celerity

Negative: Astral Hazing (10)

Connections:
5 points left for this, i think i will take a fixer

Question:
Due to the massive amount of bio- and cyberware, there is merely some money left. Up to now I am still swapping points to get at least basic equipment. At the moment, I just want your critics where e.g. possible mistakes are build in, which solutions don´t work RAW etc. Thank you very much in advance for your help.

..at first: Body 2 for Street Samurai means no good armor can be worn.(max 2xBody=4), Charisma 1 and no Etiquette Skill (Default -1 =0 Die)
If i remember correctly attack with spur is Str/2+3,you can drop Str to 3(5)(damage is rounded up)
Born Rich Quality does not give you automatically more money,it just gives you means to raise max money to 60bp (300k)
--
I Showed this character to my friend and here it goes... :

Race. Human (0 Bp)
Attributes (200 Bp)
Active Skills (130 Bp)
Knowledge Skills (21 free)
Gear&Lifestyle (50 Bp)
Contacts (10 Bp) (enought for Fixer and one other)
390 Bp used (10 bp is being used to buy (10 bp=50k) max money of 300k)
B 3 20 bp
A 5 [7] 40 bp
R 4 [8] 30 bp
S 3 [5] 20 bp
I 5 40 bp
L 2 10 bp
W 4 30 bp
C 2 10 bp
E 2 0 bp

35 Bp worth of negative Flaws

35 bp worth of positive Flaws:
Born Rich 10 bp (and raising max cash to 300k (50bp cash-->60 bp), KA-CHING!!
Surge (lvl 3 ) 15 bp
Restricted Equipment 5 bp
Ambidextrous 5 bp

and here u go..loaded for anything,can use 6/4 armor.. playable Steet Samurai..

[Meatbag]

If you're going for hideous twinkery, as you seem to be, drop the firearms and close combat skill groups, and go for broadly-applicable specializations. Blades 4 (Cyber-Implant Weapons +2) and Automatics 4 (Assault Rifles +2), are more effective - use a machine pistol in a concealed holster as a sidearm.



5 BP gets you one level of Krav Maga. Use this to make Take Aim a free action. Coupled with the vision magnification on your cybereyes, this means your assault rifle can make shots out to 550m with relative ease.

If you need more money, the Bone Density levels should be the first to go. +1 damage resistance isn't worth 20k, and you're already doing physical damage with your implanted spurs. You'd be better off buying armor with that cash.

Here's what you can buy for 20k:

An FN 5-7C with Gas Vent 3 and External Smartgun: 1400.

A Colt M23 with Gas Vent 3, Shock Pad and External Smartgun: 1600

A Chameleon Suit for missions: 8000

An Armor Vest for day-to-day protection: 600.

Comes out to about 11,600, leaving you 9,400 for a commlink, ammo, armor mods, fake credentials, vehicles, hookers and beer.

Note that Bone Density does NOT add to Body directly, it just grants an extra die for damage resistance. Not worth it.

[Machiavelli]

I would say bone density is the best thing on the market. It is expensive, yes, but in comparison with the equivalent cyber, it gives more body dices, no stupid armor that can be negated via AP-cpability of ammo or the weapon itself, it is LEGAL and you get the physical damage for free. The spurs are just for the look, therefore i have two if them. and where is the difference between body-dices and dices for damage resistance tests? regarding the armor and encumbering rules you are right, I have to check this once more. I think that I will also lower the strenght like you said and raise body.

Regarding the skill-groups, the character is build to be combat-ready with every weapon he can catch, so taking only two specializations would be a real disadvantage. Maybe I will lower one skillgroup which grants 10 points or I will drop another skill that can be displaced by skillsoft.

Born rich is calculated in, therefore I had no points left for charisma or charisma-linked skills. I hope somebody in the team will negotiate for me.^^

The item-list is cool, thank you for that. Low-cost-runner...here i go.^^

[Meatbag]

Bone Density's bonuses can't be negated by AP, true, but I'm still not sure it's worth the price for a cash-strapped runner. Keep in mind you haven't bought a Lifestyle, a vehicle or Fake SINs yet, which are big money sinks. Your choice, though. If you've got a group Lifestyle and/or a group wheelman with a van, you can get away with not having the first two.

Regarding versatility: Krav Maga with an assault rifle gives you ranges comparable with sport rifles, and a machine pistol can be used as a sidearm or a poor man's SMG. What more do you need?

If you're absolutely married to that idea, though. at least replace the Close Combat Group with Blades (Implanted +2). Your implants can't be taken away, so they effectively replace Unarmed Combat.

[Traul]

Born rich is calculated in, therefore I had no points left for charisma or charisma-linked skills. I hope somebody in the team will negotiate for me.^^

It is much worse than that. It is the practically equivalent to the Uncouth default: you cannot default on social skills, as your dice pool would be 0 (and you don't have much Edge to try a long shot either). As you don't have any social skill either, you are completely unable to do anything. Keep a low profile while walking through a gang's turf? Look unassuming when crossing a Lone Star patrol, although you are sporting illegal cyberware? Too hard for you. You don't need somebody to negociate for you, you need sombody to hold your hand as soon as leave your home.

A Charisma score of 2 or at least 1 rank in Etiquette would enable to live your daily life.

Apart from that:

- you don't need the close combat skill group at all: your spurs will always be with you, so no need for anything else.
- the "Gymnastics dodge" specialisation does not exist, for a very good reason as it would break the balance with Dodge.
- you don't have any money left to buy skillsofts.
- you boost both Gymnastics and Dodge, but you will only use one of them.
- the 2 last remarks make your Move-By-Wire useless. The only thing it brings you is the extra Reaction boost.
- the radar sensor is Headware. It does not fit into a cybereye.
- you need another 5 point SURGE negative quality.
- you get nothing out of your 4 Logic, as you don't have any skill to match it.
- don't forget to pick up 35 points of negative qualities...

I think you should make choices here: do you want a mercenary type, with high athletic abilities and wide weapon knowledge, or a cable guy with heavy cyber and wired skills? Right now, you're trying to do everything, and finally achieve none.

[Machiavelli]

Athletic dodge really exists. I can´t give you a page, but i will look for it. If the additional dice you get for dodge-tests from the MBWS also count for the athetic dodge is another question. I hope so....the GM will tell me more.

The last missing 5 negative SURGE-points will be covered by the scent glands (discussion with the GM) i thought about making her (it´s a woman, new info) smell like different flowers...causing her the streetname "Blossom". Boah....sounds gay.^^

You are absolutely right about the social skills. Maybe I will switch some points here.

Regarding the negative Qualities, i just didn´t decide which ones will be the "ones". I thought about Amnesia and a Cortex Bomb in correspondence with a Spirit Bane and SINer (no criminal SIN). (Character is a former contract-killer from a local criminal association...or something like that.)^^

@Meatbag: That the bone density-augmentation is quite expensive, is for sure. But i think it will pay off because I get a high body from the start and I don´t have to update them in the future (they are already maxed). You can´t get titanium bones from the beginning and airport visits are also not your favourite hangouts.^^

Close combat could be dropped, yes, but maybe I have to deal with some ritual fights in the future where weapons are not allowed or no option? Maybe my cyber is turned off or broken....whatever...I am prepared.^^ All vital skills (expect the social ones...sure) are innate and he is playable even if he got hacked (not he eyes...please..^^)

[Stingray]

Athletic dodge really exists. I can´t give you a page, but i will look for it. If the additional dice you get for dodge-tests from the MBWS also count for the athetic dodge is another question. I hope so....the GM will tell me more.

You are absolutely right about the social skills. Maybe I will switch some points here, too.

Regarding the negative Qualities, i just didn´t decide which ones will be the "ones". I thought about Amnesia and a Cortex Bomb in correspondence with a Spirit Bane and SINer (no criminal SIN). (Character is a former contract-killer from a local criminal association...or something like that.)^^

@Meatbag: That the bone density-augmentation is quite expensive, is for sure. But i think it will pay off because I get a high body from the start and I don�t have to update them in the future (they are already maxed). You can�t get titanium bones from the beginning and airport visits are also not your favourite hangouts.^^

Close combat could be dropped, yes, but maybe I have to deal with some ritual fights in the future where weapons are not allowed or no option? Maybe my cyber is turned off or broken....whatever...I am prepared.^^ All vital skills (expect the social ones...sure) are innate and he is playable even if he got hacked (not he eyes...please..^^)

.."normal" good negative qualities would be: Weak Immune System 5 bp (PC:s who have extensive Body modifications..),Scorched,Sinner(normal 5 bp)
Incompetant,Addiction(mild)(Alcohol),from Runner's Companion Day Job and Poor Self Control..just remember as some qualities give Notoriety..

[Machiavelli]

Check. I like the Weak Immune System and the day job. I want her to be a stereotypical sociopathic killer, so Poor Self Control would be a quick ticket to hell...i will skip this one.^^ About Scorched I have to check which consequenses this could have.

[Traul]

Athletic dodge really exists. I can´t give you a page, but i will look for it. If the additional dice you get for dodge-tests from the MBWS also count for the athetic dodge is another question. I hope so....the GM will tell me more.

You can use Gymnastics to dodge, but there is no specialisation that applies. The Dodge skill has 2 specialisations: Ranged or Melee. So there is no specialisation that always applies. If there was an athletic dodge specialisation for Gymnastics, it would apply to all situations and make the Dodge skill useless.

Move-By-Wire directly increases your Dodge skill, so it does not work with Gymnastics.

Close combat could be dropped, yes, but maybe I have to deal with some ritual fights in the future where weapons are not allowed or no option? Maybe my cyber is turned off or broken....whatever...I am prepared.^^ All vital skills (expect the social ones...sure) are innate and he is playable even if he got hacked (not he eyes...please..^^)

If this is what you want, genetech might be the way to go. Reakt adds 2 dice to all Reaction-based defense rolls (even when not in full defense) and Synch adds 1 die to all combat rolls, no matter with which weapon.

[Machiavelli]

Core-book page 151 says:

Gymnastics Dodge: Characters skilled in Gymnastics can
spend their action flipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of
danger, and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against
either ranged or melee attacks.

...i also heard other players here to use it like that.

I swapped the metatype of my char from norm to dwarf. I will update tomorrow. For this version I try to get an genetic optimization for Reaction. But it will have to wait until play or leave some other implants. This stuff is expensive.

[Traul]

OK, for the third time:

You CAN use Gymnastics to dodge. You CANNOT buy the Gymnastics dodge specialization that does not exist. No +2 to all dodge rolls for 1 BP.

[Machiavelli]

But you can specialize in tumbling or whatever and use this specialization to dodge...and it is 2 bp´s. So the dodge skill is RAW useless.

[Larme]

Skills:
Firearms-Skillgroup: 4
Close-Combat Skillgroup: 4
- cracked apart: Specialisation bladed weapons: Cyberimplant. weapons (Spurs)
Athletics-Skillgroup: 2
- cracked apart (houserule) during character creation: Gymnastics: 4 (+2) Specialization Athletics dodge
Perception: 2
Infiltration: 2
Tracking: 2

I think it's been said, but I'll chime in to agree -- you are literally pissing away points on your skill groups here. You're spending 80 points on close combat and firearms, that's 20% of your entire points to buy skills which are pretty much 100% redundant. Make a character who can punch OR wield a club OR wield a blade. You are not benefitted in any substantial way by leaning all three. Either a) stick with cyberspurs, learn blades (cyber implant) and drop the skill group, or go with Unarmed (martial arts) and drop the spurs (your hands do physical damage anyway with bone density), or go with Clubs (improvised) and melee harden your guns and hit people with them. Any one is good, but all three is flushing perfectly good BP down the crapper.

Same goes for the firearms group. You've got no conceiveable reason to need pistols AND automatics AND longarms. *Maybe* Pistols + one other, pistols being useful because they're the most concealable. But honestly, all you need is longarms or automatics -- automics provides good sidearms (machine pistols) and some of the best all purpose weapons (assault rifles), while Longarms provides decent sidearms (sawed off Defiance) and some very handy combat weapons (burstfire shotguns and sniper rifles). All three together is just points down the drain. IMO, the best combination is Automatics + Heavy Weapons (grenade launchers), because of the power of airburst minigrenade launchers. But instead of heavy weapons, you have redundant skills from the Firearms group. Lose it, and spend your points jacking up your other skills and attributes.

Especially raise gymnastics -- you've got a 2 in your primary defense skill? Bad idea. Sure you've got it pumped up with cyber, but you've really got no excuse not to take it higher. I'd say, drop the Athletics group and just get Gymnastics. Running sucks, you can already run without rolling, the skill just makes you a little faster. Swimming too -- all it does is make you a little faster, and when's the last time you had a swimming race in Shadowrun? Same with climbing. Lose it, climbing is for noobs who think that the best way to break in is always the roof. Gymanstics on the other hand is very useful, being a defense skill, as well as jumping and balancing.

And as has been pointed out, move by wires are pretty wasteful here -- I'd grab alpha wired reflexes, and reaction enhancers instead. You don't need to pay that extra money for bonuses you can't really use, since you're a gymnastics dodger. And skillwires are no longer all that, with SR4A setting the cost of skillwires at rating x 10,000.



I have to disagree on social skills though. There is this idea circulating that people with low social skills can't accomplish everyday tasks. This is erroneous. Normal, everyday tasks have a threshold of 0, no roll is required. I can drive down the street without crashing if I have a 1 reaction and no car skill, because a slow drive down the street does not require a roll. Similarly, I can order food at the Burger Hut without rolling, because there is literally no chance of anyone failing that task unless they do it on purpose. People wrongfully assume that having no social skills makes you have to roll for all kinds of things that normal people would not need to roll for. This is false and unwarranted by RAW. You will fail if a more difficult situation crops up (i.e. a cop wants to know what you're doing and you need to provide a satisfactory answer), but living daily life works just fine as long as you keep your head down and mouth closed as much as possible. The only way that you literally can't get through life without a problem is when you're Uncouth -- that means you don't even have any idea of manners or etiquette, you're Untrained. You cannot accomplish easy tasks without a roll because you've literally got no idea that it's wrong to order food by saying "Give me a burger, shitface, or I'll rape you." That's not what charisma 1 and no social skills means. Charisma 1 and no social skills is not Untrained in social skills, you have the basic idea, and you can accomplish everyday tasks that don't require rolls like ordering food. You should be able to rely on your team for the heavy lifting socially -- it's mystifying to me that everyone thinks the stupid thug muscle needs a paltry few dice in social skills, like that's somehow important to the team. I'm not saying that it's wrong to have social skills on a sammy, I'm saying that you shouldn't listen to everyone who says you *have* to. It's your choice, whether you want to roleplay someone who's really unlikeable and antisocial, or whether you'd like to be more normal.

But you can specialize in tumbling or whatever and use this specialization to dodge...and it is 2 bp´s. So the dodge skill is RAW useless.

That's a matter of interpretation. Technically, what you're doing when you gymnastics dodge is doing Gymnastics Dodge, not Tumbling. The rules for Gymnastics Dodge say nothing about the Tumbling specialization applying. They do describe the way you gymnastics dodge as jumping and flipping and such, so you could decide that it uses the Tumbling specialization. But it's equally valid to say you don't... So far, the consensus I've seen is that per RAW, you cannot apply any specializations to Gymnastics Dodge.

You can use Gymnastics to dodge, but there is no specialisation that applies. The Dodge skill has 2 specialisations: Ranged or Melee. So there is no specialisation that always applies. If there was an athletic dodge specialisation for Gymnastics, it would apply to all situations and make the Dodge skill useless.

Well said, I think that about clinches it. You could decide that Tumbling works, and it wouldn't make you a crazy madman if you thought that. But you'd have to consider the systemic ramifications -- Dodge would become worthless, we'd have to cross it out of the book for all the good it would do anyone. Not the right way to treat it, IMO, not with all the stacks of dice you can add on to Gymnastics rolls as it is (especially with the new Positive Quality in Companion that provides yet another shot in the arm to gymnastics dodgers).

[Stingray]

Core-book page 151 says:

Gymnastics Dodge: Characters skilled in Gymnastics can
spend their action flipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of
danger, and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against
either ranged or melee attacks.

...i also heard other players here to use it like that.

I swapped the metatype of my char from norm to dwarf. I will update tomorrow. For this version I try to get an genetic optimization for Reaction. But it will have to wait until play or leave some other implants. This stuff is expensive.

...I would forget genetic optimization...Too expensive for small raise to Reaction..
Take Exeptional Attribute (Reaction) (20 bp),Then raise it to natural almost max(5)+ implants..

[Traul]

I have to disagree on social skills though. There is this idea circulating that people with low social skills can't accomplish everyday tasks. This is erroneous. Normal, everyday tasks have a threshold of 0, no roll is required. I can drive down the street without crashing if I have a 1 reaction and no car skill, because a slow drive down the street does not require a roll. Similarly, I can order food at the Burger Hut without rolling, because there is literally no chance of anyone failing that task unless they do it on purpose. People wrongfully assume that having no social skills makes you have to roll for all kinds of things that normal people would not need to roll for. This is false and unwarranted by RAW. You will fail if a more difficult situation crops up (i.e. a cop wants to know what you're doing and you need to provide a satisfactory answer), but living daily life works just fine as long as you keep your head down and mouth closed as much as possible. The only way that you literally can't get through life without a problem is when you're Uncouth -- that means you don't even have any idea of manners or etiquette, you're Untrained. You cannot accomplish easy tasks without a roll because you've literally got no idea that it's wrong to order food by saying "Give me a burger, shitface, or I'll rape you." That's not what charisma 1 and no social skills means. Charisma 1 and no social skills is not Untrained in social skills, you have the basic idea, and you can accomplish everyday tasks that don't require rolls like ordering food. You should be able to rely on your team for the heavy lifting socially -- it's mystifying to me that everyone thinks the stupid thug muscle needs a paltry few dice in social skills, like that's somehow important to the team. I'm not saying that it's wrong to have social skills on a sammy, I'm saying that you shouldn't listen to everyone who says you *have* to. It's your choice, whether you want to roleplay someone who's really unlikeable and antisocial, or whether you'd like to be more normal.

RAW don't talk about "everyday tasks". They say there should be no roll for actions the character should be able to hande easily. What is easy depends on the character, and the decision belongs to the GM. What can he rely on to estimate the PC's abilities ? His stats.

What exactly can be considered as easy for someone who is completely unable to handle the slightest problem? While 0 is the basic level for a skill, 1 is stated as weak for an attribute. When you think about what the average guy can do, the average guy has at 0 in all skills and 2 in all attributes. This means he has a dice pool of 1. If you fall below that, it is normal to have to roll for things that the average guy would find trivial. Uncouth is different: you have to roll even if your dice pool should be enough, because you don't safely master the skill.

Of course, there is no problem to order a burger: that guy wants to sell you a burger anyway.

But this is Shadowrun. All the people you meet are not paid to please you. We already talked about gangs and cops. How about a racist policlub, not of your meta of course? A sect wishing to bring you enlightenment? A crook who sees the fool in you? These are all daily encounters and they would all call for an opposed test, since there is an opposition. As soon as you leave Downtown, the streets can become very dangerous for an easy prey. You are ready to fall for any scam. And some of those are organ smugglers.

[Larme]

RAW don't talk about "everyday tasks". They say there should be no roll for actions the character should be able to hande easily. What is easy depends on the character, and the decision belongs to the GM. What can he rely on to estimate the PC's abilities ? His stats.

What exactly can be considered as easy for someone who is completely unable to handle the slightest problem? While 0 is the basic level for a skill, 1 is stated as weak for an attribute. When you think about what the average guy can do, the average guy has at 0 in all skills and 2 in all attributes. This means he has a dice pool of 1. If you fall below that, it is normal to have to roll for things that the average guy would find trivial. Uncouth is different: you have to roll even if your dice pool should be enough, because you don't safely master the skill.

Of course, there is no problem to order a burger: that guy wants to sell you a burger anyway.

But this is Shadowrun. All the people you meet are not paid to please you. We already talked about gangs and cops. How about a racist policlub, not of your meta of course? A sect wishing to bring you enlightenment? A crook who sees the fool in you? These are all daily encounters and they would all call for an opposed test, since there is an opposition. As soon as you leave Downtown, the streets can become very dangerous for an easy prey. You are ready to fall for any scam. And some of those are organ smugglers.

Well, we agree more or less -- no roll to buy a burger no matter how low your social skills are, unless you're Uncouth.

Now, what you're describing is essentially Random Encounters. They are pointless little "fuck you player" events that don't have anything to do with the story, and wouldn't be part of any good GM's do to list. Furthermore, you could get scammed, but if you're a big violent lunkhead, you can probably deter scams by killing the first few people who scam you. Once you have a few points of Notoriety as a murdering bastard, people will leave you alone. You can also attach yourself to a team member who's not as socially clumsy as you, maybe live with and protect the team's face, and she'll protect you from the socially predatory.

The only thing I'm saying is, don't let people tell you that a combat character must have social skills. It's inconvenient not to, but each character can fill his own niche without agonizing about how he doesn't fill someone else's niche. In fact, it's been suggested on here that charisma 2 and Influence 1 would be valuable to this character -- that's a pile of crap. 3 dice is still statistically insufficient for you to succeed at a social test of any real difficulty. You'd still get scammed almost exactly as much. Until you're looking at 5 dice or better, your risk of critical glitch is so high you don't even want to roll. If you don't have a *good* social pool, you might as well not have one at all, because functionally it's about the same either way. What people are suggesting is essentially a fluff social pool, one that's too small to do anything, but big enough to say "well, he's a little bit social." I think it's wrong to tell people that such a fluff pool is required. It's his choice, and that's all there is to it. He, and everyone, should be aware of both sides of this argument, rather than simply being told that wasting points on tiny, useless social pools is somehow necessary to a successful combat character.

[CodeBreaker]

But this is Shadowrun. All the people you meet are not paid to please you. We already talked about gangs and cops. How about a racist policlub, not of your meta of course? A sect wishing to bring you enlightenment? A crook who sees the fool in you? These are all daily encounters and they would all call for an opposed test, since there is an opposition. As soon as you leave Downtown, the streets can become very dangerous for an easy prey. You are ready to fall for any scam. And some of those are organ smugglers.

I would just like to put in at this point that simply because a person might not be able to deal with people doesnt make them a complete dipshit when it comes to social encounters. With a high enough Logic/Intuition anyone is going to know that when some guy walks up to you on the street and offers you "the most amazing deal you have ever seen" there is a good chance you are being scammed. Same with a policlub. Keep your head down, dont pull attention to yourself, and move on quickly. In fact in my mind none of the encounters you suggested are necessarily Charisma based, not if the player can explain it so that its not.

Sure, if I then said "I have my Socially Inept Guy try and bluff his way out of this random street encounter and get away" it would be. For the Policlub, oh no, I have to use one of those other skills I am really good at, say run away to solve it. Some crook tries to scam me? If thats not an intuition roll I dont know what is. Now if the character had picked up the Uncouth quality I could see this being a problem because our Socially Inept Guy might decide that the best way to get out of a random encounter with a Policlub would be to shout random profanities and roar like a lion, and thats not going to go down well.

But then again I guess it depends on your GM.

[Traul]

Now, what you're describing is essentially Random Encounters. They are pointless little "fuck you player" events that don't have anything to do with the story, and wouldn't be part of any good GM's do to list.

Except they are not Random, but fairly regular. They might not have anything to do with the plot, but they have everything to do with the ambiance. Life is hard in the sprawl. If anybody has any weakness that deep, he should feel it. At least he will know why he wants to buy himself a better life. That suits well for inter-run sessions.

You can also attach yourself to a team member who's not as socially clumsy as you, maybe live with and protect the team's face, and she'll protect you from the socially predatory.

Now that's exactly my point: big brother takes care of you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The only thing I'm saying is, don't let people tell you that a combat character must have social skills. It's inconvenient not to, but each character can fill his own niche without agonizing about how he doesn't fill someone else's niche. In fact, it's been suggested on here that charisma 2 and Influence 1 would be valuable to this character would be valuable to this character -- that's a pile of crap. 3 dice is still statistically insufficient for you to succeed at a social test of any real difficulty. You'd still get scammed almost exactly as much. Until you're looking at 5 dice or better, your risk of critical glitch is so high you don't even want to roll. If you don't have a *good* social pool, you might as well not have one at all, because functionally it's about the same either way. What people are suggesting is essentially a fluff social pool, one that's too small to do anything, but big enough to say "well, he's a little bit social."

Exactly: just big enough to be on par with the average guy on the street. We're not comparing this character to the the PC level, but to the grunt level.

All those little encounters have to be considered trivial for normal characters, otherwise there would be too many of them and crooks would be ruling the town. It's not about actually throwing the dice, it's about justifying you don't have to throw them. For that, Charisma 2 OR a skill at 1 is enough.

I would just like to put in at this point that simply because a person might not be able to deal with people doesnt make them a complete dipshit when it comes to social encounters. With a high enough Logic/Intuition anyone is going to know that when some guy walks up to you on the street and offers you "the most amazing deal you have ever seen" there is a good chance you are being scammed.

It could make sense, but the rules don't work like that: you resist Con with Con+Charisma. The idea may be that there is only 1 test for the whole act, and it includes the approach step that shuts down the alarms before the scam really begins.

Same with a policlub. Keep your head down, dont pull attention to yourself, and move on quickly.

This is exactly what Etiquette is for. Better not move too quickly, or they will feel your fear and nothing turns them on like that. Sure, you can always run, but with the right behaviour they might have decided to leave you alone and wait for the next one instead.

[Glyph]

By RAW, having a Charisma of 1 and no social skills makes a character vulnerable to certain social situations. The character, not being Uncouth, still does get the benefit of positive dice modifiers, though.

From a metagaming standpoint, a certain minimal investment in social ability can ensure that the GM doesn't throw a lot of social hassles your way. While the actual dice pool of, say, a Charisma of 2 and the Influence skill group at 1 might be small, it can sometimes make a big difference in how your character is treated in-game.

[Machiavelli]

I agree that no social skills AND a low charisma are no joker for the team at all. Therefore i rose charisma and added at least a con-skill. I will update the whole character hopefully within today. One last questions: i can get genetic optimization also during the game? I just overflew the section yesterday evening but to me it sounds like something you get during your birth or at least a very long stay in a tube.^^

[Stingray]

I agree that no social skills AND a low charisma are no joker for the team at all. Therefore i rose charisma and added at least a con-skill. I will update the whole character hopefully within today. One last questions: i can get genetic optimization also during the game? I just overflew the section yesterday evening but to me it sounds like something you get during your birth or at least a very long stay in a tube.^^

Yes,you can get genetic optimization during game, if one is willing to stay 2 months in the tube..
but by the rules of 4A raising then reaction 4 to 5 is expensive.. 25 karma (5x new rating) (if playing those rules)
if you need to save money and essence, one word: Cybersuite. (0.9 essence and yen cost)
your GM might be accept that for Restrictive Equipment(Cybersuite) Quality..but money is money and essence is essence..

[Machiavelli]

I refuse playing SR4A...no way to have fun with a mage there. Thanks for the info...more swapping of points for me...argh...^^

[ElFenrir]

Yah, I'm definitely in the boat of giving Charisma and Body a boost. Lower Strength, you don't need a whole lot of that, and 5 augmented should be just fine for a pair of blades. (You can get + DV to blades too, of course.) You could get a away with base 3 strength(to save money and essence), and + DV to blades and be more than fine. And yeah, just ditch Clubs/Unarmed, and go for Blades(Cyber Implants). I would try to weasel out 2 levels of blade styles that give +2 DV to Blades. This way, with Strength 3 you'd actually be doing MORE damage than with 5. Instead of Str/2+3 for the spurs (6P), you'd have 7P damage(3/2+3 is 5, round up, with +2 DV for Blades 7.)

[Meatbag]

It's called min-maxing for a reason. In this case, social skills are the "min" while combat-related ones are the "max". I generally like to take a little social skill for the above-mentioned reasons, but it's no more crippling than a hacker who can't fight, and there are certainly enough of those.

That said, just because he's not a people-person doesn't mean he's a complete moron. Con is resisted with Con, but Judge Intentions is Intuition+Charisma Vs. Willpower+Charisma. That's a pool of 5, higher than the token social skills people are suggesting. Should raise a few red flags, eh?

There are also knowledge skills to help patch the holes, which are Logic and Intuition-linked. A few points in Street Gangs (Seattle Area) Confidence Tricks and Lone Star Procedures should at least partially help here.

I'm a general schmuck, and I know people that could convince me that pork rinds are secretly dolphin meat, but the ability to see them coming really helps.

As a final point, though? If gangers and racist groups are allowed to go around menacing people, there probably isn't enough of a police presence to stop people from shooting, stabbing or punching them. Given the Professional Ratings of Humanis members and common thugs, it won't take much effort to break their morale.