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> A query about Elemental Strike
Padre
post Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM
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I have a quick question about the adept power Elemenatl Strike. When the element is chosen has the discrition in the BB of defenders use half impact armour would that be just for the effewcts or the actual physical attack?
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Machiavelli
post Jun 24 2009, 07:49 AM
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Because you don´t deal 2 different damages (like you don´t have 2 damage codes with elemental-combat-spells) your melee-damage gains the "half armor" benefit. The secondary effect only causes things to burn/melt/etc. if the GM wishes them to. In addition with critical strike, this is quite deadly.
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Zaranthan
post Jun 24 2009, 02:07 PM
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Aside from the fact that you can't have critical strike and elemental strike active at the same time, sure.
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rathmun
post Jun 24 2009, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (Zaranthan @ Jun 24 2009, 08:07 AM) *
Aside from the fact that you can't have critical strike and elemental strike active at the same time, sure.

QUOTE (Street Magic)
Given the focus it demands, Elemental Strike may not be combined with Distance Strike.


Actually, you can use critical strike with elemental strike. Incedentally, this makes Penetrating Strike almost useless. (for half a point you can have either AP-2 or AP-half plus some nasty side effect)
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Jaid
post Jun 24 2009, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (rathmun @ Jun 24 2009, 10:13 AM) *
Actually, you can use critical strike with elemental strike. Incedentally, this makes Penetrating Strike almost useless. (for half a point you can have either AP-2 or AP-half plus some nasty side effect)

no it isn't. you can have something like a gauss cannon, where you first cut the armor in half and then remove more armor afterwards. but yeah, unless you really want to emphasise subtlety or you've already got an elemental strike power, penetrating strike is a pretty lousy purchase.
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rathmun
post Jun 24 2009, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 24 2009, 09:34 AM) *
no it isn't. you can have something like a gauss cannon, where you first cut the armor in half and then remove more armor afterwards. but yeah, unless you really want to emphasise subtlety or you've already got an elemental strike power, penetrating strike is a pretty lousy purchase.


Yeah, though even without elemental strike in play, penetrating strike is a lousy choice. -1AP is less powerful than +1 damage in all cases, so you're always better off going with another rank of critical strike than a rank of penetrating strike.
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Octopiii
post Jun 24 2009, 08:34 PM
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Elemental Strike: Sound is stupidly powerful: Ignore armor, cause nausea if DV is > than willpower (which results in a three combat turn paralysis). If less than that, you still cause -2 to dice rolls.
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paws2sky
post Jun 24 2009, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (rathmun @ Jun 24 2009, 03:36 PM) *
Yeah, though even without elemental strike in play, penetrating strike is a lousy choice. -1AP is less powerful than +1 damage in all cases, so you're always better off going with another rank of critical strike than a rank of penetrating strike.


The point about taking Critical over Penetrating is a good one though. Still, there's nothign stopping you from taking both.

Unlike Elemental Strike, Penetrating Strike is not at all obvious to the naked eye. Nothing short of a Detect Magic spell or Assensing is going to be able to tell that you did something weird. You take it because its subtle.

Also, Penetrating Strike is good for dropping your opponent's armor below your DV. All of a sudden, their armor isn't converting Physical to Stun. Again, if you want subtle.

Then, if you want to be a spaz, you take Elemental Strike and Penetrating Strike. Half armor, minus your Penetrating Strike rating. Nasty, nasty. Even most milspec or hardened armors aren't going to be able to stand up to that.

QUOTE (Octopiii @ Jun 24 2009, 04:34 PM) *
Elemental Strike: Sound is stupidly powerful: Ignore armor, cause nausea if DV is > than willpower (which results in a three combat turn paralysis). If less than that, you still cause -2 to dice rolls.


You are correct, however... a Sound-based elemental effect is going to sound like a thunderclap. Not good for sneaking.

-paws
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rathmun
post Jun 24 2009, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE (paws2sky @ Jun 24 2009, 02:47 PM) *
The point about taking Critical over Penetrating is a good one though. Still, there's nothign stopping you from taking both.

Sure there is, points are limited after all. If I have 3 points to spend I could get +3 DV and -3 AP or +6 DV. The +6 DV is better.
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Jun 24 2009, 02:47 PM) *
Unlike Elemental Strike, Penetrating Strike is not at all obvious to the naked eye. Nothing short of a Detect Magic spell or Assensing is going to be able to tell that you did something weird. You take it because its subtle.

Also, Penetrating Strike is good for dropping your opponent's armor below your DV. All of a sudden, their armor isn't converting Physical to Stun. Again, if you want subtle.

Adding more DV is just as effective for that purpose as AP is, and it also is much harder to reduce with the resistance roll.
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Jun 24 2009, 02:47 PM) *
Then, if you want to be a spaz, you take Elemental Strike and Penetrating Strike. Half armor, minus your Penetrating Strike rating. Nasty, nasty. Even most milspec or hardened armors aren't going to be able to stand up to that.

Still better off with more DV instead of penetrating strike. Heck, aside from it's elemental effects, elemental strike only pulls ahead of critical strike against an armor rating of 6. Admittedly, an AR of 6 is lower than anything you're going to see on any real foe, but the breakpoint is there.

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Dakka Dakka
post Jun 24 2009, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE (rathmun @ Jun 25 2009, 12:16 AM) *
Sure there is, points are limited after all. If I have 3 points to spend I could get +3 DV and -3 AP or +6 DV. The +6 DV is better.
Unless you have a Magic Rating of at least 6 you cannot have any Power at Rating 6.
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rathmun
post Jun 25 2009, 12:02 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jun 24 2009, 04:40 PM) *
Unless you have a Magic Rating of at least 6 you cannot have any Power at Rating 6.


Oops, forgot that part. I think it's because I've never actually come up against that limit with a character design, too many different powers I like to have.
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McAllister
post Jun 25 2009, 12:16 AM
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I see your point about penetrating strike (less powerful, more sneaky), and I'll raise you a follow-up elemental strike question; how does it interact with acid (and fire is a similar case), which says

"The initial DV of an acid attack counts as the Acid damage rating. Acid that has been splashed onto an object will continue to eat through for a number of turns equal to its rating."

Does that mean, if I have elemental strike: acid, 4 strength, 4 Critical Strike and 2 net hits, whoever I hit with my acid-fist will be melting for 10 damage every turn for 10 turns (unless it's neutralized)? That sounds too good.
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rathmun
post Jun 25 2009, 01:10 AM
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Magical acid doesn't stick around for more than the current turn.
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McAllister
post Jun 25 2009, 01:22 AM
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You may be right. I honestly don't know. Acid damage says:

"Note that Acid damage Combat spells only inflict damage once—after that the instant spell effect ends."

Elemental Strike says only:

"Elemental Strike enhances the effects of Killing Hands with an elemental effect."

Seeing as Killing Hands is explicitly magical, that's a pretty good case to rule Elemental Strike acid is like Combat spell acid; it doesn't stick around. In that case, does Elemental Strike: Acid do anything other than add the "cloud of acrid smoke" effect?

And what about fire? Nothing says magical fire goes away quickly, and, if someone's flammable (although this is almost entirely a GM call), the fire might stick around or even increase in size/damage. Sounds like a problem solvable with a squirt gun full of gasoline...
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Shinobi Killfist
post Jun 25 2009, 02:08 AM
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While everyone else here seems to agree on it, I do not think elemental strike adds the 1/2 armor or ignores armor mods to your unarmed strikes. I think the only thing you gain is the elemental side effects like nausea or stunning or igniting capabilities.
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McAllister
post Jun 25 2009, 04:05 AM
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Shinobi Killfist has an excellent point. From a logical point of view, what sense does it make for my sonic-powered fist to bypass the entire milspec armoured suit my victim could conceivably be wearing, with his damage resistance determined by how well his ears are protected? On the other hand, if my fist is powered by lightning, it makes sense that his armour wouldn't protect him as well as it would against the lightning. But if that were the case, would my strength be a factor in how hard my fist-lightning struck?

I'm tempted to go with KISS and accept Shinobi's take; pay half a point, apply the effect of your chosen element, and forget the rest.
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Jaid
post Jun 25 2009, 04:15 AM
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incidentally, to the earlier question about how you would decide what 'rating' the elemental effect had, i would probably go with equal to magic rating. i think i've heard that suggested before, and it's the only thing that really makes sense to me (since, after all, neither your physical strength nor your ability to wack things with your bare hands better really apply, imo)
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rathmun
post Jun 25 2009, 04:22 AM
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QUOTE (McAllister @ Jun 24 2009, 10:05 PM) *
Shinobi Killfist has an excellent point. From a logical point of view, what sense does it make for my sonic-powered fist to bypass the entire milspec armoured suit my victim could conceivably be wearing, with his damage resistance determined by how well his ears are protected?


Ever stuck your head in a metal pot while someone banged on the outside?
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Glyph
post Jun 25 2009, 05:16 AM
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QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 24 2009, 06:08 PM) *
While everyone else here seems to agree on it, I do not think elemental strike adds the 1/2 armor or ignores armor mods to your unarmed strikes. I think the only thing you gain is the elemental side effects like nausea or stunning or igniting capabilities.

That's how I've always seen it, too.
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Zurai
post Jun 25 2009, 05:37 AM
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The 1/2 Impact armor IS an elemental side effect. It's written in the elemental damage rules; elemental damage weapons just apply those rules. The rules don't originate with the weapons, they originate with the elemental damage type.
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Machiavelli
post Jun 25 2009, 06:04 AM
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If elemental strike woulnd´t have this armor-piercing-capability, it would be absolutely useless. I wouldn´t pay 0,5 points for the possibility that his t-shirt is starting to burn. I think this power is one of the little adept-powers that are really good.
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Dumori
post Jun 25 2009, 09:20 AM
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Elmimental strike is a unarmed adepts must buy. Baslt or should make really nice coichices so dose light.
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Padre
post Jun 25 2009, 11:25 PM
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Thanks all for the comments, it helped me alot!
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Shinobi Killfist
post Jun 26 2009, 04:12 AM
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QUOTE (Zurai @ Jun 25 2009, 01:37 AM) *
The 1/2 Impact armor IS an elemental side effect. It's written in the elemental damage rules; elemental damage weapons just apply those rules. The rules don't originate with the weapons, they originate with the elemental damage type.


Obviously I disagree.
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Shinobi Killfist
post Jun 26 2009, 04:16 AM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Jun 25 2009, 02:04 AM) *
If elemental strike woulnd´t have this armor-piercing-capability, it would be absolutely useless. I wouldn´t pay 0,5 points for the possibility that his t-shirt is starting to burn. I think this power is one of the little adept-powers that are really good.


No it would make it weak for some elemental effects and worth .5 for others. If it applies the armor mod it is overpowered beyond all comprehension for all but metal.
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