The high cost of Addiction Options

[HappyDaze]

Lots of people tend to take Mild Addictions for their characters. Some do it just for flavor and think it's just a fluff flaw that gets them easy points. However, Addictions can end up bing really expensive.

Consider that a Mild Addiction requires a hit at least every week - and hints at 'every few days' being more common. It's also a -2 penalty to resist the test to avoid needing a hit. Assuming that you're going to have a dice pool of less than 9 to resist for most characters, you can't avoid anything more than the threshold 1 stuff reliably (by buying successes). So, on average, you'll be needing around four hits per month assuming you make a few checks. However, if you're using the Tolerance rules from Augmentation, each hit at this level requires two doses. Now we're talking about 8 doses per month that are just added to your basic lifestyle costs - these are pretty much beyond whatever you hit on a run for stat boosts. Still, it's not too bad yet...

At Moderate Addiction, you're testing every day and at a -4 penalty. You're going to fail more often than not. Still, we'll assume you make some of them and only need 25 hits. However, you now need three doses to get a hit, so that's 75 doses per month for 'off-sceen' drug use. That's really damn expensive for some of the drugs.

At Severe Addiction, you pretty much just accept that you fail the tests. Two hits per day is going to amount to an average of 60 hits per month. Each hit is now four doses so you need 240 doses per month for your downtime use. Even Novacoke is going to cost you 2,400 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) extra per month, and something like Psyche is a whopping 48,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) monthly habit.

Also note that RP-wise, most addicts at the lower levels shouldn't try to avoid using - at least not in their down-time. Staying focussed for a run is one thing, but if you have taken Addiction (Alcohol, Mild) it's only right to play someone that gets drunk every weekend... unless there's business. Someone with Addiction (Moderate, Deepweed) is as likely to be high at any given time as they are to be clear-headed. If you're not going to roleplay them that way, then don't taske the Quality. And if you are going to play them that way, be aware of the costs.

[Mr. Mage]

My mage actually has Addiction Mild, Alcohol/Synthahol. Other than while on runs, he's constantly buzzed, at least. And suffers from a hangover pretty much every morning. Did I metion he also tends to come downstairs in a ladies skirt? Usually because he's drunk... or lazy....I dunno....take your pick.

[deek]

For this exact reason, I created my own set of houserules to handle addictions. Number one, you don't get any points for addictions, so that sets the tone for my players.

Basically, using a variation or two of existing tables, I made it so that each use of something you can get addicted to, requires a roll. If you fail it enough times, you get a mild addiction...its steps up through burnout. But I also created a way to remove them over time if you are able to resist temptation (also a roll).

I think the system is sound and my group has playtested it, but the end result is my players don't get points for addiction. They are there for role-playing and I put a little rule framework around them for ease.

[Naysayer]

In a perfect world, all flaws are there for roleplaying.

Not dissing on your system, if it works for you, it works, and everyone's a winner.
Me, I don't have a problem with most "easy" flaws, be it a mild addiction, or the dreaded Sensitive System on a mage, or Incompetence: Hacking on a sammie. But at the tables I've gamed at, you'd also always get some roleplaying out of them, and I don't recall the points being used to do horrendous things to the system, so your mileage may of course vary.

[noonesshowmonkey]

My mage actually has Addiction Mild, Alcohol/Synthahol. Other than while on runs, he's constantly buzzed, at least. And suffers from a hangover pretty much every morning. Did I metion he also tends to come downstairs in a ladies skirt? Usually because he's drunk... or lazy....I dunno....take your pick.

Emphasis mine.

Weak sauce.

Whenever a player tries to pull this addiction flaw 'but not on runs' horse shit, I kick them in the teeth. You get the BP because the addiction isn't as convenient as 'all of the time, just not on runs' - its 'all of the fraggin time'. If it is purely an RP device then you don't need BP for it. End of story.

[Mr. Mage]

Emphasis mine.

Weak sauce.

Whenever a player tries to pull this addiction flaw 'but not on runs' horse shit, I kick them in the teeth. You get the BP because the addiction isn't as convenient as 'all of the time, just not on runs' - its 'all of the fraggin time'. If it is purely an RP device then you don't need BP for it. End of story.

No...I mean "Not while actually performing the hour or two of the actual job". I'm not allowed to talk to the Johnsons anymore because they serve drinks in most clubs. We also have a ton of Non-Run roleplaying. Believe me, it makes sense if I use the "not on Runs" argument because his addiction is mild, as in the description says he needs to get a hit once, maybe twice a week. If I had gone with moderate or severe, then no, I would not be sober on a run, but I chose mild.

Not to sound like I'm picking a fight, but what would you say for a mage with Sensitive System and didn't take any Cyberware primarily because it would hinder his magic (even without the Sens Sys)? It's a convenient negative quality, just like Mild Addiction and saying "I'm not high when I'm on a run..."
If 95% of you're game is pure shadowrunning and your characters do it EVERYday, then sure, I could agree with your argument, but personally, I prefer less runs if it means more RPing on the side.

Of course, that's just me, you may feel different (which it sems you do). I just figured I'd make my argument.

[Draco18s]

It was either the only SR3 game I played...no it was the SR3 game.

I had to do a lot of repair work on drones/vehicles and had to do it in a very short time. Took LONGHAUL, got the maximum duration off the two or three doses I had in three or four days. Gm made me roll for addition. Fortunately I made the test, but I think that's the only time my group has come across the addiction flaw. Maybe Jim had a character who smoked, but that's all I recall.

[deek]

Not to sound like I'm picking a fight, but what would you say for a mage with Sensitive System and didn't take any Cyberware primarily because it would hinder his magic (even without the Sens Sys)? It's a convenient negative quality, just like Mild Addiction and saying "I'm not high when I'm on a run..."
If 95% of you're game is pure shadowrunning and your characters do it EVERYday, then sure, I could agree with your argument, but personally, I prefer less runs if it means more RPing on the side.

As a GM, I try to gauge my players and the negative qualities they take. So, sensitive system with no intention of cyberware mods, I'd take a real close look. If the player was just doing it for bonus points, then I would likely make them change it. Its a preference from table to table. I don't think it would ruin a game, but if some players are just trying to get more points while others are really trying to build a background, then I try and balance that before entering the game.

[Mäx]

As a GM, I try to gauge my players and the negative qualities they take. So, sensitive system with no intention of cyberware mods, I'd take a real close look. If the player was just doing it for bonus points, then I would likely make them change it. Its a preference from table to table. I don't think it would ruin a game, but if some players are just trying to get more points while others are really trying to build a background, then I try and balance that before entering the game.

I would think that a sensitive system flaw would be a good background reason to not have any cyber in you mage.

[Dashifen]

I made addictions a little easier to handle by ignoring the penalty to the roll made to resist a craving. That makes it far more likely that you can resist the craving when it comes up and, thus, reduces the possibility of someone descending to a burn-out addiction within weeks. Not necessarily accurate for how badly certain drugs can grab a person, but it allows addictions to have an effect in game while not invalidating characters too quickly.

[deek]

I would think that a sensitive system flaw would be a good background reason to not have any cyber in you mage.

True, but I still think its based on the player. I normally play with friends, so it easier to know motivation. So, if I had a player that made a mage and he knew he was never going to get cyberware and he took the flaw, knowing it wouldn't come up...well, that is the situation I try to avoid. Its all but impossible to prove that between strangers.

I don't know about you, but I can determine pretty well, if a player (after gaming with them for years) is doing something for background reasons or just to get an advantage. It may be a thin or irrelevant line to most, but to closer groups, it does matter.

Just so I don't sound like an asshat, if I were to run a forum game or something with players I didn't know, I wouldn't start the game with any houserules, as its too presumptuous that different players would want the same gaming experience or fall into the same habits as another group.

Not that anyone outside of my campaign cares, but here is the houserule that I used to replace addictions:

[ Spoiler ]

Drugs and Addictions
The Addiction Negative Quality is not available in this
campaign. All Addictions are handled through the optional
rules listed below. Bonuses from drugs stack with all
other forms of bonuses.

Addiction Level Table
Recovering Addict (Monthly Craving Tests / -1 penalty)
Mild Addiction (Weekly Craving Tests / -2 penalty)
Moderate Addiction (Daily Craving Tests / -4 penalty)
Severe Addiction (Twice Daily Craving Tests / -6 penalty)
Burnout (Four Times Daily Craving / -6 penalty, Essence Loss)

Addiction Thresholds
Hallucinogens, Dreamchips = 1
Stimulants, Moodchips, Personafix, Foci*, VR = 2
Narcotics, BTLs, Tripchips = 3

Drugs of the same level or higher on the addiction
threshold table may be substituted to satisfy
addiction.

*Focus addiction tests must be made for each focus.

Craving Test
Body + Willpower with the frequency determined by the
addiction level and the target determined by the
addiction threshold.

When in the presence of the drug or at the determined
frequency, a Craving Test is made. A success means
that you hold back your cravings and carry on until
the next time you need to make one. A failure gives
you a penalty to all actions equal to the addiction
threshold until a hit is taken or until the next time
you make a Craving Test.

To satisfy a Foci, BTL or VR craving, mild addicts
must spend 1 hour, moderate addicts must spend 4
hours, and severe/burnout addicts must spend 8 hours
(which must be spent consecutively) using the Foci,
BTL or VR. Short bathroom/food breaks are allowed, but
should often be neglected by addicts.

A glitch gives you a penalty, but only for 24 hours. A
critical glitch doubles said penalty until a hit is
taken or the next time you make a Craving Test.

Note only those that have an addiction are required to
make Craving Tests, so until you are addicted, you can
ignore these rules.

Active enrollment in a rehab program gives the PC a +4
modifier to all craving tests. Rehab programs cost
2500Y per month and are considered low lifestyle.
Active enrollment in a once a week support group gives
the PC a +2 modifier to all craving tests. Rehab and
support group bonuses do not stack.

Addiction Test
Willpower + Logic (mental) or Body + Willpower
(physical) test. The threshold comes from the Addiction
Threshold table but is made every time a hit is taken,
regardless of addiction level.

Focus, VR, and BTL addiction tests are made every
willpower + 1D6 hours of consecutive use (the GM rolls
the 1D6 in secret).

On a successful test, nothing happens. You get the
affects of the said drug and go on with life. Same
thing with any addictive behaviors...everything is
cool.

A glitch will mean you get a "bad hit" and you gain a
penalty equal to the drug's Addiction Threshold for 24
hours on all actions.

A critical glitch doubles the penalty and lasts for 48
hours on all actions. There is possibility for
overdose as well, at GM discretion.

Addiction Failures
Hallucinogens, Dreamchips = 3
Stimulants, Moodchips, Personafix, Foci, VR = 2
Narcotics, Tripchips = 1

The above table is used to determine if you step up to
the next addiction level. This is the number of
consecutive failures you must have on an Addiction
Test to move to the next level.

Now going back down the ladder, we use the Addiction
Threshold x 5. After that amount of successful Craving
Tests, you move to the next lesser level. After you
have made enough to get to no addiction, you are a
recovering addict.

After 1D6 months of being a recovering addict (which
means you are passing those craving tests), you can
remove the addiction.

[Mr. Mage]

True, but I still think its based on the player. I normally play with friends, so it easier to know motivation. So, if I had a player that made a mage and he knew he was never going to get cyberware and he took the flaw, knowing it wouldn't come up...well, that is the situation I try to avoid. Its all but impossible to prove that between strangers.

I don't know about you, but I can determine pretty well, if a player (after gaming with them for years) is doing something for background reasons or just to get an advantage. It may be a thin or irrelevant line to most, but to closer groups, it does matter.

Just so I don't sound like an asshat, if I were to run a forum game or something with players I didn't know, I wouldn't start the game with any houserules, as its too presumptuous that different players would want the same gaming experience or fall into the same habits as another group.

Oh yea...Its kind of silly to take a flaw if it has absolutely no bearing on your character. For example, I have a friend who took Incompetent in the Sorcery skills but he is a cybered up street sammy, so he couldn't use the sorcery skills anyways...Personally, I think that's kind of cheap (and I'm not sure if its legal, but our GM doesn't mind).
Sensitive System goes well for me however since my mage is kind of a technophobe, he also has the Gremlins quality at level 3! And I roleplay the hell out of that! In fact, my storage area in my (character's) apartment is filled with broken down TVs and Radios, failed attempts at trying to entertain himself. Sensitive System, I thought, went hand in hand with that.

The thing that really irks me is when people start complaining about your little ways of making a certain negative quality not affect you, but that can be done to pretty much all of the qualities except for the really expensive ones. It all just depends on how you play the character, really. And hopefuly, most GMs will expect you to RP your negatives, in fact, my GM actually makes us pay off our negative qualities with Karma (like you could opt to do normally) if he feels we aren't roleplaying them enough. So far, I haven't been told I need to pay them off, so I'm gonna just keep doing what I've been doing.

[Mr. Mage]

Also, I suppose the Sensitive System is a good reason to have no cyber in your mage and is really not convenient at all because it also limits how your character can progress. If I ever wanted Cyberware in the future, I'd have to carefully weaigh the pros and cons before doing so since it could be VERY harmful.

[noonesshowmonkey]

We seem to be on the same page afterall, Mr. Mage.

Any player that tries to saddle their character with a flaw that they expect to easily be able to sidestep during gameplay can pretty much be sure that I will 1) reject the character and/or 2) make their flaws come up regularly. Even Slight Addictions come up every few runs.

Also, Deek... Those addiction rules are tech, man. Nice work.

[Critias]

Emphasis mine.

Weak sauce.

Whenever a player tries to pull this addiction flaw 'but not on runs' horse shit, I kick them in the teeth. You get the BP because the addiction isn't as convenient as 'all of the time, just not on runs' - its 'all of the fraggin time'. If it is purely an RP device then you don't need BP for it. End of story.

Maybe instead of just ranting about it, you could make them do stuff "not on runs" so that it does impact the character. Bad guys don't call up ahead of time and schedule ambushes. Hell, some Johnsons don't even schedule runs very far in advance. There's more to gameplay than shadowrunning, too; let it impact them during their "down time" with Contacts, training time, etc.

Let someone get into a firefight or two while they're all Blissed out of their mind, and suddenly that 5 bp flaw is more than worth it.

[HappyDaze]

I only allow Sensitive System if the character has at least 0.1 Essence Cost of cyberware (before the doubling). Only then did the character discover that cyberware and his system are a poor match.

Oh yeah, Addictions. The houserule I'm doing with Tolerance is to adjust the multiplier by one place. Mild Addiction will still only require a single dose for a hit. Moderate is x2, Severe x3, and Burnout x4. This better fits with the description of Moderate Addiction in SR4A as the level where tolerance starts to appear.

[Kerenshara]

As a GM, I try to gauge my players and the negative qualities they take. So, sensitive system with no intention of cyberware mods, I'd take a real close look. If the player was just doing it for bonus points, then I would likely make them change it. Its a preference from table to table. I don't think it would ruin a game, but if some players are just trying to get more points while others are really trying to build a background, then I try and balance that before entering the game.

This is an answer I can seriously get behind.

Personally, I tend to see a mild addiction to booze as binge drinking rather than alcoholism; you tend to party hard a night or two a week, but are still able to be straight the rest of the week... aside from the hangovers. Moderate, at that point you're consistently at least buzzing when you can hack it. THAT's when you need to worry about "Am I too drunk to 'run?" Another example would be day-job, 10 hours. Depending on the job, it's more there as flavor, and as a plot hook and occasional foil if the GM feels like screwing with you a bit (not dinging the GM, you took the flaw, expect to have it be a problem from time to time). But in a case like that, it's more like "can I get somebody to cover for me/call in sick/make other arangements" and so forth.

I can't remember the name of the quality, but it's the one where you had a bad run-in with BTL or Black IC and it causes you issues. If you're a decker, that's a real flaw (and IIRC gets you more points), but even for a normal user, there are times that will come in to play, and you should write it into your background, and expect the GM to bring it up at some point. But sensitive system on a mage with no 'ware is just... in need of some coaching from the GM. Notice how it doesn't allow nicotine as an addiction? I think that's serious bulldrek. How many GIs in 'Nam got smoked because they lit up in the jungle, needing their fix and the VC could smell it? Or the guard who has to sneak off to smoke when she thinks it's slow and nobody will notice them at the back emergency exit for a quick couple puffs? And if you have an actual addiction (I would require it to START at moderate to be realistic) to nicotine, that can start getting pretty expensive, too. I would consider a "hit" to be like half a pack of cigarettes, spread over the day. How many non-smokers have a friend who's a half-pack+ smoker? How apparently disruptive is that? Think it might be worth points to have to check for starting to "nic" in the middle of a run? I do.

Caffiene, on the other hand, is not an addiction... it's just the preferred alternative to "sleep". It's too easy to get that particular "fix" and it would technically be part of your lifestyle (Coke-a-cola^TM probably still exists in 2070... can anybody imagine what the 2070 version of Jolt^TM or Red Bull^TM would be like though? *shudder*).

[noonesshowmonkey]

Maybe instead of just ranting about it, you could make them do stuff "not on runs" so that it does impact the character. Bad guys don't call up ahead of time and schedule ambushes. Hell, some Johnsons don't even schedule runs very far in advance. There's more to gameplay than shadowrunning, too; let it impact them during their "down time" with Contacts, training time, etc.

Let someone get into a firefight or two while they're all Blissed out of their mind, and suddenly that 5 bp flaw is more than worth it.

I really like it when someone insinuates how my games run at table from off-hand comments on the boards. There has not been a single moment's context given to out of main run, in character activity that was challenged based in the thread thus it was simply not really... contextual...

In any case, the most common place for flaws to show up in my games is during meets with contacts or on down time in between runs since those two activities account for the majority of most shadowrunner's time (versus the time spent on a run).

[Critias]

I really like it when someone insinuates how my games run at table from off-hand comments on the boards. There has not been a single moment's context given to out of main run, in character activity that was challenged based in the thread thus it was simply not really... contextual...

Well, when you froth about how you're going to kick someone in the teeth for pulling horseshit like "not on runs" flaws, it really, really, implies that "yes on runs" is what really matters in your games. If you spend so much of your games "not on runs," why do you react so vociferously when someone wants qualities to matter "not on runs?"

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your statement, but given that you feel a "not on runs" flaw shouldn't count (so much so that you don't say you'll sit down with a player and talk it over, or don't say that you'll modify the value of such a flaw, but that you have to call it horseshit and joke about kicking them)...well...the logical assumption to make is that your games focus very heavily on runs.

[Mr. Mage]

I only allow Sensitive System if the character has at least 0.1 Essence Cost of cyberware (before the doubling). Only then did the character discover that cyberware and his system are a poor match.

I can see where that is going, but my reasoning for having Sensitive System is actually coupled with also having Gremlins 3. If they try to put cyberware on me, it will end very badly, not only because I tend to have bad luck with technology (Gremlins) and such a problem may actually be internal (Sensitive System) *wink wink*

However truth be told, I actually want tot take the quality where you feel really sick in AR and VR, but couldn't remember what it was called and confused it with Sensitive System. They're right next to one another too, I think. But I had already finished my character by the time I found my mistake, so I simply reworked his personality a bit. hehe

Caffiene, on the other hand, is not an addiction... it's just the preferred alternative to "sleep". It's too easy to get that particular "fix" and it would technically be part of your lifestyle (Coke-a-cola^TM probably still exists in 2070... can anybody imagine what the 2070 version of Jolt^TM or Red Bull^TM would be like though? *shudder*).

Oh...I disagree.... Caffeine is a drug, and you can be addicted to it. While it is true that 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning can actually be beneficial (increased brain activity, reflexes, etc.), many people today drink more caffeine than is in those two cups. Some of these energy drinks actually have warnings that you shouldn't drink more than two a day or you could have a heart attack! (Most like that have been banned in the US, though some of the Energy "Shots" like that do still exist here. NOS energy Shots, I believe have that warning)
I know some people who actually begin to feel really sick if they don't get a hefty dosage of caffeine each day, so I'd say they're probably addicted.

I wuold guess that Caffeine isn't as addictive as other drugs though, but it is still addictive on RL. As for in Shadowrun, it may not quite be addictive enough to warrant a negative quality...but maybe you could take it at a reduced cost, i.e. Moderate addiction for only 5 points? I dunno.

[toturi]

When my players show me their characters with Addiction or any Negative Quality that is especially debilitating or is itself not useful in certain circumstances, I ask them if they are sure about it. In the case of Addictions, I ask if they would rather change the substance to Betel instead.

[Mr. Mage]

When my players show me their characters with Addiction or any Negative Quality that is especially debilitating or is itself not useful in certain circumstances, I ask them if they are sure about it. In the case of Addictions, I ask if they would rather change the substance to Betel instead.

One of our group's members has mild addiction to BTL Elf Porn, but I'd rather not roleplay that, thank you. And personally, we just tend to give it to him because we don't want him to roleplay it, we just conveniently use it when he's...."occupied"....

All in all, I think I'd rather have addiction to a normal substance than to BTLs... even if it isn't BTL porn.

[toturi]

One of our group's members has mild addiction to BTL Elf Porn, but I'd rather not roleplay that, thank you. And personally, we just tend to give it to him because we don't want him to roleplay it, we just conveniently use it when he's...."occupied"....

All in all, I think I'd rather have addiction to a normal substance than to BTLs... even if it isn't BTL porn.

Betel (p74 Arse).

[noonesshowmonkey]

Well, when you froth about how you're going to kick someone in the teeth for pulling horseshit like "not on runs" flaws, it really, really, implies that "yes on runs" is what really matters in your games. If you spend so much of your games "not on runs," why do you react so vociferously when someone wants qualities to matter "not on runs?"

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your statement, but given that you feel a "not on runs" flaw shouldn't count (so much so that you don't say you'll sit down with a player and talk it over, or don't say that you'll modify the value of such a flaw, but that you have to call it horseshit and joke about kicking them)...well...the logical assumption to make is that your games focus very heavily on runs.

First and foremost there is a great distinction between metaphor, hyperbole, sarcasm and what the words themselves mean without any such interpretation. I forget that people read things literally (for whatever reason. Blame society!)

Anyhow, the game breaks down into fluff and mechanics. I refuse to allow a player to take a flaw that has mechanical resolution (BP rewards) which never really comes up when the juice is on, when the mechanical parts of the game are running. If you want a flaw that only impacts the fluff portions of the game - portions of the game without any serious conflict resolution, without your character's neck being on the line or the like, then you don't get BP for it. Fluff =/= Mechanics - never has for any game. The distinction between Fiction and Rules is a clear distinction that needs to be made. I make that distinction with my players.

Also, if you want to read between the lines, perhaps you could try reading the 'reject the character' to imply that I am discussing character generation with my players before we even come to the table. There are a lot of subtexts in what I write that don't involve kicking people in the teeth (but what fun that is!). Then again, that wouldn't do much to help you be argumentative or critical. (crappy) Implications and assumptions generally carry far more weight of meaning begotten from the labors of the interpreter than the writer.

[Mr. Mage]

Betel (p74 Arse).

Sorry, no book on me.... is it not BTLs? My bad, I thought that was the nickname for them....but I guess I'm wrong?