External Smartlink, How big is it? Options

[Regiment]

Heh, just curious, in these days of smartlink contacts with a dozen other options included... how big is an external smartlink?
Also, How fast would it be to calibrate to a new weapon? or how easy would it be to knock off of a weapon?

Just idle curiosities

[Kerenshara]

Heh, just curious, in these days of smartlink contacts with a dozen other options included... how big is an external smartlink?
Also, How fast would it be to calibrate to a new weapon? or how easy would it be to knock off of a weapon?

Just idle curiosities

It's not as big as the current-day "land-warrior" bits of kit, but it's not a small item either. Keep in mind, in order to be able to do things like use DNI to drop the clip or switch modes, it has to tie pretty solidly into the receiver of the weapon. Along the same lines, to read the clip and temperature of the barrel, all supposed abilities of a Smartgun? I always figured it was a semi-permanently mounted "accessory". As for concealability, I would say a penalty of 1. (Oh, I haven't seen anything official on the concealability of a silencer, either, but I would say penalty of 2 there.)

Did that approximately hit your question?

[Regiment]

Mostly... was kinda thinking about what would happen to calibration if you put one on a revolver and then used it to beat someone silly...

[hobgoblin]

I dont think it has been specified. But as it can fit on a light pistol, i suspect its not that large.

btw, the mount/dismount time is given somewhere, and should hint at its "permanency".

[Kerenshara]

Mostly... was kinda thinking about what would happen to calibration if you put one on a revolver and then used it to beat someone silly...

Well, that's just it: as a piece of electronics it can accept up to four (4) modification "slots" and you could pay to give the external electronics "melee hardening" for one of those slots. Then it's no longer an issue. Those same slots could add a better camera, telescoptic optics, SkinLink or EMP Hardening just to name a couple options. Otherwise, there's a chance you will break the think (like hitting somebody with your average 'link).

I dont think it has been specified. But as it can fit on a light pistol, i suspect its not that large.

btw, the mount/dismount time is given somewhere, and should hint at its "permanency".

Yes, but I would have to say that's for the external portion, if you're being at ALL realistic. The internal parts are a diferent puppy, or how else did you want to have the unit to come up with all that data/flexibility? The "external" portion is probably easy enough to remove and reattach, but... sorry, the guts should take a while longer, regardless of what is says in the book. (Now, if you say that you get the +2 aim bonus but not the other DNI related goodies or ammo count, then sure, have fun with it.)

[hobgoblin]

Could be that it makes use of some kind of diagnostic port, like what one find on cars today...

[Kerenshara]

Could be that it makes use of some kind of diagnostic port, like what one find on cars today...

Yeah, I considered that, but then the weapon's already 2/3 of the way to being smart, right? Then why the egregious expense of an integral SmartLink? If all the basics are already in place (like a servo to eject the clip, and some kind of sensor, and the required hand-off capability in the clip in order to report magazine status, and probes for temperature in the barrel and... yeah, all of that), it should be relatively simple to stuff in the relatively small extra bits of gear (central processor and camera, essentially) which shouldn't cost the full 100% of weapon base cost. THAT's why I feel the way I do on the issue.

[hobgoblin]

probes can be there from the factory, so that anyone can pop it in a reader after use and see fatigue status.

trigger and clip release could be replaced or added to during fitting(they are externally accessible after all), and ammo counter could be rfid based or something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (maybe read of a sensor reading tention in the spring somehow?)

[the_real_elwood]

I've always figured that an external smartlink is roughly the size of a current medium-magnification rifle scope. Temperature and stress sensors to monitor the weapon are already tiny using present-day technology, and assuming Shadowrun levels of technology, you could have a fairly small implementation of flexible smart materials to activate things like the magazine release and firing selector/safety.

I also wouldn't think it's the kind of thing that could get knocked out of alignment by banging it over someone's head either, but your mileage may vary with that.

[Regiment]

Heh, any of it works, was just looking to carry around a couple externals in case I pick up a better rifle than what I'm carring at the moment. (Our GM wanted to start a beginner style campaign with a max availability of 6) so finding better than my m23 is likely to be pretty easy.

[ZeroPoint]

Ammo counter is by RAW known to already be included in almost all firearms. Usually in the form of a digital readout. As is wireless capability (SR4A pg316). That to me says it already has a really simple brain included. I would imagine an external smartlink accessory simply plugs into the already existing brain, only really adding barrel integrity sensors (which may also already be included) and clip ejection system, safety switch, and firing selection change system (which would require some dis-assembly, but overall could be as simple as replacing a few components with *smart* parts). The Smartlink's main function is as the human AR interface and providing more functionality to the already existing computer.

[TheOOB]

At the very least I imagine you have to take the gun apart and attach a few components, the main unit will be the camera, but you can't make a gun fireable by wi-fi without a little modding.

[Stingray]

I've always figured that an external smartlink is roughly the size of a current medium-magnification rifle scope. Temperature and stress sensors to monitor the weapon are already tiny using present-day technology, and assuming Shadowrun levels of technology, you could have a fairly small implementation of flexible smart materials to activate things like the magazine release and firing selector/safety.

I also wouldn't think it's the kind of thing that could get knocked out of alignment by banging it over someone's head either, but your mileage may vary with that.

..Like RL Glock's have rails under their barrel where small flashlight can be attached, i would say External Smartlink
would be 3 inches long and half-inch wide, (like small battery)

[KCKitsune]

OT: I would like to know why the Smartlink vision enhancement is necessary?

I mean everyone already carries around a commlink, and most everyone either has cybereyes or has vision enhancing eye ware with a displaylink. So since the hardware in the gun does almost everything except ballistic calculations, why can't you just have someone create a rating 1 program that you run on your commlink and that interfaces with your displaylink.

[Meatbag]

OT: I would like to know why the Smartlink vision enhancement is necessary?

I mean everyone already carries around a commlink, and most everyone either has cybereyes or has vision enhancing eye ware with a displaylink. So since the hardware in the gun does almost everything except ballistic calculations, why can't you just have someone create a rating 1 program that you run on your commlink and that interfaces with your displaylink.

It's a plot by Browning to keep the Ultra-Power from being utterly crushed by the Ares Predator, obviously.

[KCKitsune]

It's a plot by Browning to keep the Ultra-Power from being utterly crushed by the Ares Predator, obviously.

Except Browning could make their Ultra-Power a smartgun. It's smaller than a Predator and therefore should be easier to conceal.

[Regiment]

You know, I've read that a lot... but I haven't ever seen a RAW source that gives it a bonus... am I blind? or are we all just going by the text description as to that?

[Zaranthan]

I've always said that, despite computing power being cheaper than dirt, a Smartlink still needs a real-time available graphics processor to relay information to the user. If your commlink decides to process a text message before your ballistic data, you could have a real problem. The time may seem infinitesimal, but combat is beyond fast.

[Jackstand]

In third edition and before it was more concealable than the Predator. I don't know that there's any difference, though, nowadays.

[Kerenshara]

Ammo counter is by RAW known to already be included in almost all firearms. Usually in the form of a digital readout. As is wireless capability (SR4A pg316). That to me says it already has a really simple brain included. I would imagine an external smartlink accessory simply plugs into the already existing brain, only really adding barrel integrity sensors (which may also already be included) and clip ejection system, safety switch, and firing selection change system (which would require some dis-assembly, but overall could be as simple as replacing a few components with *smart* parts). The Smartlink's main function is as the human AR interface and providing more functionality to the already existing computer.

I went back and read that paragraph (thank you for the precise cite), and lo and behold, something DID happen in the preceeding 6-8 years since the last canon products (3rd ed).

OK, in order. Fine, you have a clip that reads out, and wireless (forgot my wireless panties *groan* where's my zapper?). That doesn't necessarily mean there's any meaninful computational power on board. It's things like those "barrel integrity sensors" that I am unsure would be a part of the gun to begin with; It's a bit more complex than you might think. You in a way make my point for me about swapping out "smart parts" though, even if as somebody else pointed out, the springs and catches could be smart materials. Since there's a lot of disagreement where the brains are (base gun, smart link on the weapon, smart link 'ware), let's focus on the important parts: the main piece that (in theory) ties it all together is relatively compact, but significantly noticable (I think that's agreed based on what I have read so far) hunk of gear that itself can be added or removed (say, for concealability) relatively easily, but that the FIRST time, at least SOME Armorer skill would be necessary to swap out for "smart" parts or install suplemental sensors to enable all the useful secondary functions of the SmartLink.

So, could you slap the accessory on an un-modded weapon? I think so. Would you get to use the neato features immediately? Nope. I think I could live with that interpretation. Will that work for you?

At the very least I imagine you have to take the gun apart and attach a few components, the main unit will be the camera, but you can't make a gun fireable by wi-fi without a little modding.

Pretty much what was said above, but I especially like that last part. Of ALL the "extra" functionality on a SmartGun, that's the big one.

[Jaid]

so i got tired of waiting for someone else to go actually do what was suggested earlier and look up the smartlink for rules on installing it. turns out it is an armory + logic (4, 1 hour) test to install a smartlink, meaning it's 1-2 hours for a reasonably skilled person to install, longer for people who don't know what they're doing. this strongly implies (to me at least) that the smartgun does indeed require that you swap out parts. probably the only external part is the camera. which is more-or-less what seems to be the consensus, but it could have been reached quite some time ago if you just did what hobgoblin said in the first place...

[Regiment]

Heh, you know, I think I've read that entry 3 or 4 times and didn't once think of it when I thought of the question... too much info loaded in my too small memory capacity of a brain.

[Kerenshara]

so i got tired of waiting for someone else to go actually do what was suggested earlier and look up the smartlink for rules on installing it. turns out it is an armory + logic (4, 1 hour) test to install a smartlink, meaning it's 1-2 hours for a reasonably skilled person to install, longer for people who don't know what they're doing. this strongly implies (to me at least) that the smartgun does indeed require that you swap out parts. probably the only external part is the camera. which is more-or-less what seems to be the consensus, but it could have been reached quite some time ago if you just did what hobgoblin said in the first place...

We all thank you for doing the legwork (I've been at work, so I can post a bit - notice they're shorter than my usual? - but looking up references is a little limited at times) and getting us the RAW answer. The rest of the comentary probably would have happened anyhow simply asking why it takes so long to install it.

[KCKitsune]

I've always said that, despite computing power being cheaper than dirt, a Smartlink still needs a real-time available graphics processor to relay information to the user. If your commlink decides to process a text message before your ballistic data, you could have a real problem. The time may seem infinitesimal, but combat is beyond fast.

Unless of course, you're running the software have real-time priority in the program queue. In fact, if you're running Windows, do this to see how easy it is to do... and this is in Windows!!!

1. Start the task manager
2. click on the "Processes" tab
3. right click on a program
4. go to "Set Priority" and set it to "Real Time"
5. Profit!!!

[toolbox]

Yeah, I've always thought that if a technomancer can thread a smartlink as a complex form, then it should be possible to run one on a commlink as well (assuming the presence of all required hardware, natch). And a shadowrunner interested in doing so would presumably be able to get it running in a functional manner.