Astral Hazing for a Magician, Seems like a bad idea, right? Options

[McAllister]

Two questions about Astral Hazing.

First; it says that it's a rating 4 background count (no mention of mana ebbs or negative counts, so I'm going to assume positive) that's tainted by darker emotions. Is there any way to use this to my advantage? I'm sure "darker emotions" describes most blood magicians' practices. Could I take up blood magic, use it for really twisted stuff, and get 4 added to my magic instead of subtracted? Or maybe just get the bonus if I'm using magic while feeling particularly emotionally tormented? If that were so, I'd be more than willing to pay for it as if it were a positive quality.

Also, how does it interact with metamagics? Can I Cleanse it, or aspect it towards my own tradition with Geomancy?

[Machiavelli]

First: you can´t play twisted mages
Second: acc. to RAW you should be able to cleanse it...for a while. Geomancy? Why not, if the GM allows it, everything is possible. But UNTIL you are an intiate and have this 2 metatechniques, you will be f***ed up quite bad. At least, no spells harm you.^^

[Ravor]

Actually, the rules for Blood Mages aren't really that bad, but Toxics are alittle incomplete.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Is there any way to use this to my advantage?

Sure.

It overrides the ambient mana levels - meaning you will always be at BGC 4, no matter if in deep space or a toxic wasteland.
Also, anything magical not featuring force or magic will work just fine, like defensive Counterspelling and Banishing for Attack of Will.

Given that anyone in close combat with you will not only lose 4 magic/force (even of their weapon foci), but also their domain advantage, you really should train unarmed combat and MAs. In fact, if a spirit is Force 4 or lower, you just have to reach it to disrupt it.

But, basically, you can cast Magic in Space! (And any mage hanging arround can so, too.) How Awesome is that?
Of course, if your GM allows you (or others...) to use Geomancy on yourself, things will go crazy from there...

[KCKitsune]

Does anyone else here think that a mage with Astral Hazing can cast magic in space? I'm thinking that it would not. The reason for my belief is that it violates one of the rules of magic.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Actually, that fact is based on the rules of magic, especially those in Street Magic concerning the mana level.

[thearistocrat]

Actually, the rules for Blood Mages aren't really that bad, but Toxics are alittle incomplete.

Blood Mage Rule 1: Player Characters can never learn blood magic or be blood mages.

Blood Mage Rule 2-100: Consult rule 1.

[Machiavelli]

Even i as an absolutely PG accept this. Follow me.^^

[toturi]

Does anyone else here think that a mage with Astral Hazing can cast magic in space? I'm thinking that it would not. The reason for my belief is that it violates one of the rules of magic.

By RAW, I think it does. In fact, I had suggested a variant of this in one of the discussions some time back - instead of the mage having Astral Hazing, the Street Sam or the Technomancer of the group take it and provide a fallback, bedrock position for the Awakened members to retreat to.

[Doc Byte]

Also, how does it interact with metamagics? Can I Cleanse it, or aspect it towards my own tradition with Geomancy?

Doc's guide to powergaming:

First step: Cleanse your own BC
Second step: Channel it and get 4 bonus dice

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

If that really worked you would have a more or less permanent version of aspected mana static force 4 without any bad points for you . . so no, i don't think it works that way . . of course, if you can bribe your GM into allowing this kind of sillyness, more power to you . . literally ^^

[Doc Byte]

Just one word: P.o.w.e.r.g.a.m.i.n.g™

[McAllister]

Thank you all for your contributions.

The "can you use magic in space" question is quite interesting! Now, the description of Astral Hazing refers to it as a mana domain, which means there's more mana available in it than "default" (bg count 0). The problem is that it's aspected, so most magicians receive a penalty. For use in space, I'd just go with adding 4 to the negative count; for example, -9 would become -5, which means you'd stand a chance of stunballing a devil rat. It's like your negative emotion-emitting brain is trying to light up a dark football stadium with a flashlight, only the stadium is space and the light is mana.

And with regards to blood mages, I can play them. I mean that in the sense that nothing in the books explicitly states they're not to be used for player characters, and all the necessary rules are provided. That said, WHY should I follow TheAristocrat's rules 1-100 and never ever play a blood mage?

Also, a quote, Street Magic, pg 136: "Where the line is drawn (if at all) is left to the individual gamemaster and his group."

[Stahlseele]

Just one word: P.o.w.e.r.g.a.m.i.n.g™

MOOREE POOWEER!

[DireRadiant]

If it doesn't hamper you, it is not a Negative Quality.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Have you seen some of the "positive" Qualities? Like Escaped Clone?

[Draco18s]

The "can you use magic in space" question is quite interesting! Now, the description of Astral Hazing refers to it as a mana domain, which means there's more mana available in it than "default" (bg count 0). The problem is that it's aspected, so most magicians receive a penalty. For use in space, I'd just go with adding 4 to the negative count; for example, -9 would become -5, which means you'd stand a chance of stunballing a devil rat. It's like your negative emotion-emitting brain is trying to light up a dark football stadium with a flashlight, only the stadium is space and the light is mana.

I don't think Astral Hazing will ever raise a mana deficient zone to higher mana levels, such as outer space not having a -12 BGC.

The way I think about Astral Hazing is that you have a permanent area of aspected domain of mana around you. It is aspected towards You, not your tradition, but aspected You. Meaning that no one may ever gain the positive benefits of the BGC.

[Wiggles Von Beer...]

Blood Mage Rule 1: Player Characters can never learn blood magic or be blood mages.

Blood Mage Rule 2-100: Consult rule 1.

Depends on your GM and how you do it. I played a blood mage who was taught the Sacrifice metamagic by malevolent trickster spirit. My character hated himself, and nearly killed himself overcasting each run. I only got to use blood magic once though.

It worked out pretty well.

[Stahlseele]

I don't think Astral Hazing will ever raise a mana deficient zone to higher mana levels, such as outer space not having a -12 BGC.

The way I think about Astral Hazing is that you have a permanent area of aspected domain of mana around you. It is aspected towards You, not your tradition, but aspected You. Meaning that no one may ever gain the positive benefits of the BGC.

not even yourself? O.o

[Neraph]

Blood Mage Rule 1: Player Characters can never learn blood magic or be blood mages.

Blood Mage Rule 2-100: Consult rule 1.

Ahem.

That said, allowing player characters to follow twisted paths may provide a unique challenge to gamemasters and players willing to explore mature and potentially disturbing characters and themes in their campaign.

It is strongly advised that twisted metamagics remain the province of NPC's. Player characters should not have access to these powers unless the gamemaster allows them to become twisted.

(emphasis added)

"Strongly advised" and "should" mean "might" and "possibly". All twisted metamagics are left up to GM discretion, but twisted archetypes are completely fine. IE: getting Sacrifice metamagic I would have to let my GM allow me; playing a 'necromancer' my GM shouldn't disallow (honestly, all you need is a posession tradition and the Preserve spell. Easy).

The way I think about Astral Hazing is that you have a permanent area of aspected domain of mana around you. It is aspected towards You, not your tradition, but aspected You. Meaning that no one may ever gain the positive benefits of the BGC.

The way I always saw it is that you carry around a r4 backround count. It would interact in all other ways as backround count. It would overwrite other positive count that is lesser than itself.

And technically, since the text says it is "an aspected domain in her own right", that begs the question; aspected to what? Even the text for cyberzombies, which Astral Hazing points to, states "the cyberzombie becomes a domain in her own right", implying that it is aspected for itself (albeit adding 4 dice to a 1 Magic, not very useful). However, if it truely acted as BC does, then all CZs would die, every time (having their Magic 1 reduced by their own BC...).

[thearistocrat]

The Aztlan Sourcebook got blood magic right the first time, Magic in the Shadows / SR4 be damned.

"Gamemasters should note that rules for blood magic and conjuring blood spirits apply ONLY to non-player characters.
No player character can EVER become a blood mage or conjure blood spirits: only the villialns they may face (if they're particularly unlucky) can do such things." [no emphasis added]

From a game-breaking, NPC-restricted domain with a personal 1,000,000 nuyen bounty from the Dragon's Will to "oh yeah, that blood mage can totally go on runs with us."

[Adarael]

I would welcome any PC blood mage into my party. And then I would welcome the million dollars his ass would fetch after I sold him to DIMR!

[thearistocrat]

I would welcome any PC blood mage into my party. And then I would welcome the million dollars his ass would fetch after I sold him to DIMR!

The problem is that he has to be alive, and your .3 essence street samurai is already running in the other direction.

[Mäx]

From a game-breaking, NPC-restricted domain with a personal 1,000,000 nuyen bounty from the Dragon's Will to "oh yeah, that blood mage can totally go on runs with us."

Maybe the runner team is working for DIMR, rest of the team are payed by the DIMR to go in runs with their blood mage.

[Adarael]

Man, what? My .3 essence Samurai could sucker-punch his ass cold and then keep him in sense-dep, drugged to the gills.
At least, a halfway decent Samurai could knock him out with a sucker attack.

(Actually, my longest running game DID have a blood mage who was reformed and on the run from the Azzies. Init grade 3, with Sacrificing, Channeling, Invoking. It was godawful. I still think my Hermetic could take him, though. Centering, Quickening, Shielding, Psychometry ftw.)