Astral Hazing for a Magician, Seems like a bad idea, right? Options

[Draco18s]

The way I always saw it is that you carry around a r4 backround count. It would interact in all other ways as backround count. It would overwrite other positive count that is lesser than itself.

And technically, since the text says it is "an aspected domain in her own right", that begs the question; aspected to what?

I haven't read up on cyberzombies, but "aspected domain in her own right" I have always taken to mean that it's aspected towards the character, but that the character's tradition (or whatever) never matches the character. "Jessy who has astral hazing has an aura of Jessy Domain, but Jessy doesn't practice Jessy Magic, she practices Bear Magic."

[Stahlseele]

OK, that would be one way of looking at it . . the other being that magic in Sr depends on what the user wants it to be . .
It WOULD give Psionists a nice little boost, as they believe their magic to be completeley their own power, nothing magical.

[Draco18s]

OK, that would be one way of looking at it . . the other being that magic in Sr depends on what the user wants it to be . .
It WOULD give Psionists a nice little boost, as they believe their magic to be completeley their own power, nothing magical.

Spirits would also have to have a whole nother set of rules then, as well. How would a psionic justify being able to conjure a mental projection (or whatever they think it is) that's smarter than he is?

[Stahlseele]

I think the Psionics can only do some limited conjouring, if any at all . . am at work, no books.
And i still think the aspected astral hazing would be scary.

[Draco18s]

Street Magic:

These days, psionics is considered a quaint and outdated
paradigm by the wider magical community; a flawed understanding
of magic being gradually eroded by its own inability
to explain many of the everyday realities and accept the fundamental
conventions of modern thaumaturgy. Nonetheless,
die-hard psionics persist, denouncing so-called “magical traditions�
and their esoteric teachings as superstitious hocuspocus
clouding the truth—that all “magic� is actually an expression
of the power of the metahuman mind and will.

Which covers anything I can find on psions. Psionic doesn't actually exist as a tradition as far as I can find.

[phantom]

psionics is covered more in digital grimoire. Basically, it's a possession tradition that call's its spirits thought-forms

[Neraph]

Spirits would also have to have a whole nother set of rules then, as well. How would a psionic justify being able to conjure a mental projection (or whatever they think it is) that's smarter than he is?

The communal subconsious. You "summon" the communal subconsious, which is evidently smarter than yourself.

[Meatbag]

The communal subconsious. You "summon" the communal subconsious, which is evidently smarter than yourself.

On this topic, I found it particularly irksome that psionics can't take Mentor Spirits, explicitly.

If they think the Astral Plane == Collective Unconsciousness, which is about the only way it would make any damn sense, then particularly archetypal ideas would gain some truly amazing power.

[AngelisStorm]

I haven't read up on cyberzombies, but "aspected domain in her own right" I have always taken to mean that it's aspected towards the character, but that the character's tradition (or whatever) never matches the character. "Jessy who has astral hazing has an aura of Jessy Domain, but Jessy doesn't practice Jessy Magic, she practices Bear Magic."

THIS is an awsome way to look at it (and explain it).

Btw, WTF psionics can't take Mentors? Collective Unconscious, Archtypes? Hello? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Machiavelli]

Yeah, "Jessy´s Magic"....good point. Never thought of it this way. Why? Hmmm...because the rules are clear.^^

[Stahlseele]

They are?
Where?

[KCKitsune]

I think that they should have left out the whole Psionic tradition all together. That way, if Catalyst wanted to they could introduce it as a new power type. I mean they already have Psionic people in Shadowrun... Technomancers. They are not magical, their Powers work in space, what ELSE could they be?

[AngelisStorm]

Yeah, "Jessy´s Magic"....good point. Never thought of it this way. Why? Hmmm...because the rules are clear.^^

What are you ,making reference to. OR, to state it more eloquently...

They are?
Where?

Moving on:

I think that they should have left out the whole Psionic tradition all together. That way, if Catalyst wanted to they could introduce it as a new power type. I mean they already have Psionic people in Shadowrun... Technomancers. They are not magical, their Powers work in space, what ELSE could they be?

And their powers come from their brains, man! (Not a bad answer, btw. Technomancers can't do alot of things that psionics traditionally are attributed with (psionics and magic have alot of overlap ability wise), but Shadowrun isn't our world, so I can see your arguement. Who knows, maybe someday Technomancers will be able to hack the human body. One never knows.)

[KCKitsune]

And their powers come from their brains, man! (Not a bad answer, btw. Technomancers can't do alot of things that psionics traditionally are attributed with (psionics and magic have alot of overlap ability wise), but Shadowrun isn't our world, so I can see your arguement. Who knows, maybe someday Technomancers will be able to hack the human body. One never knows.)

The "hack the human body" power would be telepathy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Heck, I wrote up rules (with the help of paws2sky) for Psionics in Shadowrun. The powers were somewhat like mages, but limited. If anybody is interested I'll send them to you.

[Machiavelli]

What are you ,making reference to. OR, to state it more eloquently...

If one thing is absolutely clear, then it is that you get 4 magic points subtracted. So what else do you have to know? It is interesting to know for who the aspected domain counts, but that it counts against you, is perfectly clear. The BC is fed from your own dark emotions, so you practically f**ck yourself.^^

[Neraph]

I haven't read up on cyberzombies, but "aspected domain in her own right" I have always taken to mean that it's aspected towards the character, but that the character's tradition (or whatever) never matches the character. "Jessy who has astral hazing has an aura of Jessy Domain, but Jessy doesn't practice Jessy Magic, she practices Bear Magic."

That's a great point, but that still doesn't remove the ability of Geomancy. Geomancy changes the domain's aspect to that of you geomancer's own tradition.

Granted, being in BC 4 until you can initiate would severely hurt, but it'd only hurt for a little bit.

[Draco18s]

That's a great point, but that still doesn't remove the ability of Geomancy. Geomancy changes the domain's aspect to that of you geomancer's own tradition.

Granted, being in BC 4 until you can initiate would severely hurt, but it'd only hurt for a little bit.

True. Geomancy might work, I'll have to take a look at it.

However, shooting from the hip I'd say that it doesn't only because the BC area grows over time (it's roughly 8 to 12m in diameter after having slept (edit: 4-6m). Due to that factor, you could aspect the domain, but it would only reduce the radius down to 0 and then start growing normally. If you're out and moving around, then you have to aspect the very ground you walk on continuously. That is, the geomancer aspecting wouldn't be mobile.

Edit:
Geomancy of a BC 4 area takes four lunar months. It's also very specifically a fixed location, as the site must have the right "feng shui" depending on the caster's tradition.

You could probably aspect your living area such that at home your Astral Hazing acts as a benefit, or at least a null zone (+4 local, -4 personal), but geomancy works over time, Astral Hazing works now (1 meter ever 2-3 hours, so not quite as far as I stated for sleeping. Ritual Sorcery (Geomancy uses these rules) also takes 12 hours to do, so the astral hazed area has expanded by 4 meters in radius just in the time it takes you to perform one ritual!

[Neraph]

True. Geomancy might work, I'll have to take a look at it.

However, shooting from the hip I'd say that it doesn't only because the BC area grows over time (it's roughly 8 to 12m in diameter (?) after having slept. Due to that factor, you could aspect the domain, but it would only reduce the radius down to 0 and then start growing normally. If you're out and moving around, then you have to aspect the very ground you walk on continuously. That is, the geomancer aspecting wouldn't be mobile.

You don't geomancy the area, you geomancy the backround count. Since your backround count is mobile, you're geomancied BC would be, too. Or, to try and explain it a different way, geomancy works with aspecting the mana flow, and since you're mana flow is you, and you don't restart your mana flow (when you sit still, it leaks further), you just have to worry about yourself.

You'd have to get some wierd tattoos/branding/implants in order to make the fluff, though.

The new moon had come again. Chauncey began the night with a sacrifice of small animals, as he had for the last few months. Using the knife, with innocent, sacrificial blood still on it, he began to trace sigils in the holy script his mentor, the Dark King had revealed to him. As he worked his careful art, he noticed the sinister aspect of the strong emotions that pooled around him like so many popups became stronger. When the night was finally done, another line from the Necronomicon was etched into his skin, and he sagged with fatigue. Only one more month and two more chapters of script were left, and complete control over his emotions was complete. Just as the Dark King had told him.

[Draco18s]

It'd be kinda cheesy. Looking to take on X Corp over there? Rent an apartment nearby. Not move for 1 month (ie. never leave your apartment). Your now aspected aura extends 224 meters away from your apartment. Just large enough to cover the entire city block in every direction, including X Corp's building. Wait another month. 448 meter radius BC 4 (that's a half mile circle), X Corp's mages have been unable to summon spirits for a month now. Any they had have long since headed home.

Time to strike.

Edit: hell, take up residence first, then aspect your domain. It'd be 2 miles across just in the time it takes for you to aspect it.

[Neraph]

It'd be kinda cheesy. Looking to take on X Corp over there? Rent an apartment nearby. Not move for 1 month (ie. never leave your apartment). Your now aspected aura extends 224 meters away from your apartment. Just large enough to cover the entire city block in every direction, including X Corp's building. Wait another month. 448 meter radius BC 4 (that's a half mile circle), X Corp's mages have been unable to summon spirits for a month now. Any they had have long since headed home.

Time to strike.

Edit: hell, take up residence first, then aspect your domain. It'd be 2 miles across just in the time it takes for you to aspect it.

X Corp's mages only have 4 magic? They deserve to be pwned. Plus, they could Cleanse your BC, or use that metamagic to allow them to cast anyways. Or they could have CZs themselves. Or they could be totally mechanized, with those rail-only drones, and no wireless signals.

Besides, unless you've got a SIN, I think Lone Star's magical division (can't remember the name right now) would find out what you're doing before you could finish Geomancy-ing yourself, and prolly nail you for some sort of magical terrorism.

EDIT: It's not broken, it just requires creativity on the GM's part. It's honestly not very different than a Fomori/Gnome mage with a r4 Power Focus at the beginning of play (which you can totally do, BTW).

[Draco18s]

After poking my GM he says that you could aspect a huge area effected by the hazing towards a particular aspect ('dog shaman') but that the hazing would slowly (ha!) overwrite it with mana static (the haze). You can NEVER aspect the haze itself, only what the haze creates.

Which is what I'm saying.

In any case, good luck making 8 successes on a ritual spellcasting test when you only have ~6 dice (ritual spellcasting + magic -4).

X Corp's mages only have 4 magic? They deserve to be pwned.

If they have higher than 4 magic, now they have 4 less magic. All the time. 6 magic before? 2 magic now, they'll be pwned. Summoning spirits: -4 dice. Lower cap on spirit's force. Spirit is summoned and loses 4 force being in the haze. All spells immediately lose 4 force when cast (not to mention having 4 fewer dice to cast the spell as well as needing to overcast to achieve force 5+ before the count takes it's cut). A magic 2 mage (magic 6 before the BC) simply CAN NOT cast any magic.

To even cast spells while in the BC area you need magic 7. To cast spells that mean anything you'd have to be magic 8 or better. Magic 9 would be needed in order to cast a spell without needing to overecast.

[Neraph]

After poking my GM he says that you could aspect a huge area effected by the hazing towards a particular aspect ('dog shaman') but that the hazing would slowly (ha!) overwrite it with mana static (the haze). You can NEVER aspect the haze itself, only what the haze creates.

Which is what I'm saying.

In any case, good luck making 8 successes on a ritual spellcasting test when you only have ~6 dice (ritual spellcasting + magic -4).

This is how the rules work.

You are the heart of a R4 Backround Count. If you stand still, it grows. There is no mention that it overlaps and flows and all that other stuff (that's fluff, not crunch). So if anything, if you were to move after aspecting, you'd only lose the outer ring, as the BC you've already aspected moves with you. The 'haze' is fluff; it is counted as being a backround count of 4, and we can work with backround counts.

Clarify this even further with Augmentation:

Whatever the ambient mana conditions are, the cyberzombie always stands at the heart of a rating 4 backround count (see p. 117, Street Magic) that extends a number of meters... If she remains in one place for long, the backround count will expand...

The term 'expand' does not mean 'replace and get bigger' or 'renew'.

Geomancy is treated as casting a Ritual Spell, at force 8, requiring 8 successes. You can easily get the dice required for 8 successes at chargen; however, in order to get the 4 magic required to overcast to effective force 8, you'd either have to Initiate II and raise magic twice, or be Infected with the Energy Drain power (and use it to buff your Magic).

[Stahlseele]

Hmm . . Astral Hazing is a flaw yes?
And Fomori get the Astral Arrester right?
And Type-O would be an edge.
Soo, start out with Fomori with both, get mucho bio, when you can afford it get adapsin to be able to cram more cyber into your body for cheap too?

[Neraph]

Hmm . . Astral Hazing is a flaw yes?
And Fomori get the Astral Arrester right?
And Type-O would be an edge.
Soo, start out with Fomori with both, get mucho bio, when you can afford it get adapsin to be able to cram more cyber into your body for cheap too?

I don't see what that has to do with Astral Hazing, but yes, that would work. Except you can't get Astral Hazing with 5 points of SURGE. Astral Hazing takes 10 BP of negative qualities from SURGE.

[Mäx]

I don't see what that has to do with Astral Hazing, but yes, that would work. Except you can't get Astral Hazing with 5 points of SURGE. Astral Hazing takes 10 BP of negative qualities from SURGE.

You can if you have room for 5 BP of normal negative qualities.