Tell me about your Character's Grimoire Options

[Pax]

I'm curious to hear about the spell lists of other mage players in SR4.

My mage currently has about 25 spells in his list, is that excessive? He tries to get spells that affect both mana and physical subjects (i.e. Phantasm and Trid Phantasm). Does that strike anyone as too redundant?

He also has a large number of detection spells and utility spells like Translate and Analyze Magic, etx.

I've looked at some of the NPC descriptions from 3E products and the starting character templates from 4E and I'm wondering if this seems too over the top or excessive for a 4E game?

[Summerstorm]

It is a lot... but i like that. When i am playing a mage i normaly create all his spells from scratch (even if they are pretty much the same as in the book). Somehow that helps me getting into the mindset of a mage *g*.

Also: Detection and utility spells like you have are the bread and butter of a mage in my opinion. Blowing stuff up, everybody can do that, but clouding peoples minds, knowing the unknowable, seeing the future or creating clothes when waking up naked in a garbage can? Mage stuff *g*

Hm, but with the physical/mana spells. I am more of a fan for physical ones. Yes sometimes the lesser drain of mana spells are nice, but i like too know that may spell will work against ANYTHING always. And i don't like to pay the karma to have both (Just initiate, learn Centering and be done with the drain). But that is just my style, especially in high force combat spells Mana is great.

I think my mages had about 10 spells or so, after long gaming maybe 12-15, but mostly only one or two which do damage... mostly area with elemental effect.. i go for the BOOM. But i haven't played one for a long time (So not in 4th edition).

[EH44]

I think to start you are limited to only 2x spellcasting skill # of spells. So if you have a spellcasting of 6, you can start out with up to 12 spells. A 25 spell grimoire would be amazing to have though and I could only imagine the carnage you could cause with that versatility. I usually focus karma on initiation or improving skills, stats, and edge that my grimoire usually stays between 10-15 spells at most.

I tend to play mages that are a mix between good astral scouting, support, and combat and not a specialist in any category. I tend to rely mainly on stun spells and usually only have 2 or 3 combat spells total. If I were to make a top 10 (no order) list of spells that I use the most given this approach, it would be as follows:

improved invisibility....amazing for defense and infiltration
astral window (extended range)....to see through those pesky mana barriers, perfect for astral scouting without roving guard spirits spotting you
stunball....my default, low drain attack
trid phantasm....amazing uses from distraction to escape
levitation.....countless uses and ways to get out of tough spots
increased reflexes....lock onto a sustain focus or quicken and you are nearly as fast as your sam
heal....don't leave home without it
Fireball....when you can't see your enemy to target them, flame everything
Mind probe....very useful on interrogations, pain may not bring out the truth but this spell will
Alter memory...works well in conjunction with mind probe and helps in making people you interrogate forget all about you

Other spells that I have found to be great and pick up as soon as I can:

sanitize....(if the name is right) lets you get rid of biological evidence that lonestar can track you with
physical mask....endless uses from impersonation to escape, more specialized than trid phantasm but lacks the versatility
increased will.....same as above, but buffs out your drain resistance, astral combat, and resistance to damage on the astral
Mob control (or any action/mind control spell)....this should probably be top 10 over increase CHA
increase charisma....if you are a shaman or CHA drain type of mage, this makes you an even better face

If I were playing more of a support/buff mage....I might swap out for the various increase reflexes, combat sense, increase agility, etc to create some seriously accurate and hard to hit sams.

Many of the other players in my group really like physical barrier, mana barrier, armor, and deflection as well. I tend to just rely on invisibility on the material plane since it makes a shooter have to target you blind which ends up being better often times than any armor bonuses, but those spells can be swapped out if you prefer.

I also tend to prefer physical over the mana version of spells and rarely go for both when the physical can play double duty. Centering is definitely the way to go.

[Zurai]

My current mage only has 5 spells: Powerbolt, Stunbolt, Armor, Trid Phantasm, and Heal. So far, of those, he's gotten by far the most use out of Trid Phantasm. He's never cast Armor and only uses Powerbolt when he's the only one available to blow up objects.

'Course, he's also only got 4 essence and has 12 dice to fire his assault rifle (9 for the underbarrel grenade launcher -- which reminds me, I gotta restock on HE grenades...). He's a Chaos Mage with a fetish for cyberware, bioware, AR, and all things high-tech. Very much a combat mage, with 15 ballistic armor and the assault rifle, he doesn't stand out as a mage until he starts casting spells (he does have a gesture geas -- he traces AR sigils, runes, and glyphs to cast his spells).

[Mr. Mage]

Lessee....

I believe it is something like this (no character sheet in front of me right now)

Heal - For obvious reasons...though we surprisingly don't get hurt too much.

Improved Invisibility - Mostly because I am the only one who has no Infiltration skill, I'm working on getting Stealth too, so I can be silent.

Dog Form - Precursor to Improved Invis, so I could have a disguise. No that I planned to fool people into thinking I was a dog, but it also served as a kind of "mask", so cameras couldn't see my face. Not so I won't ever be seen, just so they don't know who they are seeing.

Detox - For those quick hangover cures!

Stunball - A non-lethal approach to dealing with guards.

Manabal - A lethal approach to dealing with guards

Alter Memory - Come on...that's just fun to mess around with.

Clairvoyance - Because it isn't useful in the way I originally thought it would be, but it is still useful nonetheless.

Orgasm (Street Magic, btw) - Because the women they love me...(I know...it's pathetic, but increasingly hilarious too!)

For the most part I am a Conjurer, so most of my skills are put into Summoning, Binding and Banishing. I find that SPirits, when used creatively, can be oh so very useful...

[Warlordtheft]

Recent PC (Druidic tradition/Dragon Slayer Mentor Spirit):
1.Stun Ball-for AOE combat effectiveness
2.Power bolt-for drones
3.Detect Life-(Debated guns, but life might be more useful-I rely on our teams hacker to take care of the drones)
4.Control Thoughts-Too many uses to list-down side to influence-user knows he/she was controlled.
5.Gecko Crawl-Minor stylistic difference with levitate, drain code is less as well.
6.Mind Probe-A quick interrogation. Not admissiable in a court of law, but you weren't taking the goon to court anyway. Don't rely on it, and do your legwork.
7.Trid Fantasm-useful, and I repeat such a utilitarian spell. Think about it-in a fire fight your team is really 5 feet from where they actually are.
8. Heal-duh.
9. Detox-well did use to keep my PC from getting drunk.
10. Increased reflexes-can we say wired reflexes 3-for 40K (rating 4 sustaining foci), 3BP and 8 karma, of course we could!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lick.gif)

[Doc Byte]

Playing a cybermage with 2 points of essence left, I chose spells for what the ware can't do while I preferred ware whenever possible.


Crank
Influence
Stunball
Stunbolt
Electro-aura
Nutrition
Vehicle Mask
Fireball
Shapechange
Levitate
Manabolt
Fashion
Armor
Physical Mask
Spatial Sense, Extended
Sterilize
Alter Temperature
Trid Phantasm
Improved Invisibility
Magic Fingers

[Neraph]

My mages tend to have things like Manabolt, Powerbolt, Increased Reflexes, Heal, and a couple of other useful spells.

Also, having both a Mana and Physical version of a spell is useful since you cannot cast Physical spells on the Astral.

[Mr. Mage]

Also, having both a Mana and Physical version of a spell is useful since you cannot cast Physical spells on the Astral.

That's why I do summoning..Spirits can act on both the Astral and physical realms...and pack one hell of a wallop too....but they don't really seam to be that great for area of effect abilities...most of their powers are single target effects...

[Warlordtheft]

Recent PC (Druidic tradition/Dragon Slayer Mentor Spirit):
1.Stun Ball-for AOE combat effectiveness
2.Power bolt-for drones
3.Detect Life-(Debated guns, but life might be more useful-I rely on our teams hacker to take care of the drones)
4.Control Thoughts-Too many uses to list-down side to influence-user knows he/she was controlled.
5.Gecko Crawl-Minor stylistic difference with levitate, drain code is less as well.
6.Mind Probe-A quick interrogation. Not admissiable in a court of law, but you weren't taking the goon to court anyway. Don't rely on it, and do your legwork.
7.Trid Fantasm-useful, and I repeat such a utilitarian spell. Think about it-in a fire fight your team is really 5 feet from where they actually are.
8. Heal-duh.
9. Detox-well did use to keep my PC from getting drunk.
10. Increased reflexes-can we say wired reflexes 3-for 40K (rating 4 sustaining foci), 3BP and 8 karma, of course we could!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lick.gif)

Oh-forgot
11. Sanitize-MR CLEAN!
12. Slay Spirit-Cheap way to off a spirit

[Maelstrome]

i tend to make my own spells.
in sr4 for my free spirit character i have
create metal
manipulate metal
toxic stream
toxic wave
powerbolt
and stunbolt

thats all i generally need. i dont necessarily use the toxic spells or powerbolt for combat.

[Mr. Mage]

Create and Manipulte metal....I assume one obvious use might be to make a weapon of some sort?

[Maelstrome]

or walls, armor, containers. i use it for a lot of things and my characters have metalworking and engineering skills aswell as armorer. im an all purpose metalworker.

[Muspellsheimr]

Except in SR4 (unsure about earlier editions), you cannot have a 'create' spell.

[Summerstorm]

Why not? I don't see any problems with that. (Although nowhere is a mass given). Hell Fashion is basically a create spell. Permanent and changes a material. A "create" spell is just an area-effect spell, physical, permanent and changes air molecules into something else. (Maybe elemental effect for added drain?)

[Adarael]

My long-running mage (Sr3) had the following:

Stunbolt
Manaball
Lightning Bolt
Wreck Drone
Physical Mask
Imp. Invisibility
Armor
Agony
Heal
Prophylaxis
Oxygenate
Mind Probe
Influence
Increase Reflexes
Increase Body
Improve Aim (or whatever the smartlink analog was)
Clairvoyance

I think that was it. I only started out with an even spread of those, but over time it became apparent he should learn more runner-oriented spells.

[Wacky]

create metal
manipulate metal

Didn't know about the "no create" rule, but back in the days of SR2 I had a custom spell that created a specific physical barrier in the shape of a sword. It did (STR/2)+Force damage to mortal and spirit alike. To keep with the rules (and not be penalized with concentrating on it while swordfighting) I had a custom sustaining focus that was in the shape of a sword handle.

Yup, I owned my own lightsaber...

...the force was strong with me!

Sign--

Wacky

[Muspellsheimr]

Sorcery Cannot Create Complex Things
Though spellcraft can transform energy,
spark elemental forces, and even provide nutrition,
no magicians have yet determined a
way for sorcery to create complex items (such
as a gun or even a hammer) from mana alone—
despite the best efforts of research corps to
date. Sorcery can be used to fix and sometimes
transmute complex items, but the days
of summoning weapons from nowhere have
not yet arrived.

Fashion cannot change what the material is, nor how much of it there is. It is probably the closest you can come to a 'create' spell, and it does not in any way whatsoever 'create' something.

[Machiavelli]

Manabolt
Manaball
Fireball

Clairvoyance
Detect Life

Prophylaxis
Increase Reflexes
Heal

Levitate

Physical Mask
Improved Invisibility
Influence
Mob-Mind

[Mr. Mage]

Fashion cannot change what the material is, nor how much of it there is. It is probably the closest you can come to a 'create' spell, and it does not in any way whatsoever 'create' something.

The description you used DOES say that things can be transmuted though...as in lead to gold kind of transmuted.... Maybe you could take a kilo of dust and turn it into a kilo of wetal....all it is is rearranging the molecular structure, nothing is being "created"...

Edit: By the description you used, I mean the quote from Street Magic in your post...

[Muspellsheimr]

and sometimes transmute

to change from one nature, substance, form, or condition into another; transform.

to shift

to change in form, appearance, or structure; metamorphos

So, creating objects 'from nothing' is explicitly forbidden by RAW for Sorcery, but transmuting oxygen to metal is just fine. Sure, I suppose, by one definition of the word.

Don't even try to argue this - sure, you can use a spell to create metal. It is a house rule, flat out. And in using it, you might as well just play D&D, where magic is supposed to do everything.

[Mr. Mage]

So, creating objects 'from nothing' is explicitly forbidden by RAW for Sorcery, but transmuting oxygen to metal is just fine. Sure, I suppose, by one definition of the word.

Don't even try to argue this - sure, you can use a spell to create metal. It is a house rule, flat out. And in using it, you might as well just play D&D, where magic is supposed to do everything.

That's a pretty unfair estimate of SR and DnD I think...

They may be playing in an SR world where magic is more abundant and understood...there's no need to actually play in the exact history of the SR universe...

And the original world of Greyhawk (which I think a lot of long time DnD players relate to) was never abundant with magic...hell, a +1 dagger was pretty awesome even at 10th level because it was so rare! (Yes...this is an exaggeration... for some people at least)
I admit DnD has gotten progressively more "magic-friendly" since 3rd edition though...

[Maelstrome]

wasnt there a create food spell in previous editions?
i based my create spell off that. who is to decide what is complex or simple. in sr3 metal, sand, and earth are elements and can be created with magic.

[Nows7]

My girl Dover is a possession Fomori.

Knock-Out force 9, Double cast is her combat preference. Get up close to give cover for the rest of the team, and let the Immunity to normal weapons prevent most of the damage while i fight.
Powerbolt
Powerball (limited) One of the spells i regret having taken
Alter memory
Influence
Detox
Improved Invis
Blast wall another spell i regret
Shapechange The Final spell i regret - Haven't used it once. Who has time to strip naked? There is only one thing that is within 2 of my body in the main book - a horse.

If anyone have any recommendations on my next couple spells please send me a message. This is my First SR char. I was thinking Increase reflexes, Heal, and a Decrees [atribute] spell....

[WyldKnight]

Everyone here listed the spells I used but I don't think anyone mentioned the Demolish spell. Personal favorite was demolish RFID and demolish gun. RFID for stealing things and taking care of tracking devices without needing a fine tooth comb and demolish gun for obvious reasons. The look on that Red Samurai when his gun turned to ash...well it was just priceless. The look as we gunned them all down without them being able to do anything? Even better.