I'm curious to hear about the spell lists of other mage players in SR4.
My mage currently has about 25 spells in his list, is that excessive? He tries to get spells that affect both mana and physical subjects (i.e. Phantasm and Trid Phantasm). Does that strike anyone as too redundant?
He also has a large number of detection spells and utility spells like Translate and Analyze Magic, etx.
I've looked at some of the NPC descriptions from 3E products and the starting character templates from 4E and I'm wondering if this seems too over the top or excessive for a 4E game?
Full Version: Tell me about your Character's Grimoire
It is a lot... but i like that. When i am playing a mage i normaly create all his spells from scratch (even if they are pretty much the same as in the book). Somehow that helps me getting into the mindset of a mage *g*.
Also: Detection and utility spells like you have are the bread and butter of a mage in my opinion. Blowing stuff up, everybody can do that, but clouding peoples minds, knowing the unknowable, seeing the future or creating clothes when waking up naked in a garbage can? Mage stuff *g*
Hm, but with the physical/mana spells. I am more of a fan for physical ones. Yes sometimes the lesser drain of mana spells are nice, but i like too know that may spell will work against ANYTHING always. And i don't like to pay the karma to have both (Just initiate, learn Centering and be done with the drain). But that is just my style, especially in high force combat spells Mana is great.
I think my mages had about 10 spells or so, after long gaming maybe 12-15, but mostly only one or two which do damage... mostly area with elemental effect.. i go for the BOOM. But i haven't played one for a long time (So not in 4th edition).
Also: Detection and utility spells like you have are the bread and butter of a mage in my opinion. Blowing stuff up, everybody can do that, but clouding peoples minds, knowing the unknowable, seeing the future or creating clothes when waking up naked in a garbage can? Mage stuff *g*
Hm, but with the physical/mana spells. I am more of a fan for physical ones. Yes sometimes the lesser drain of mana spells are nice, but i like too know that may spell will work against ANYTHING always. And i don't like to pay the karma to have both (Just initiate, learn Centering and be done with the drain). But that is just my style, especially in high force combat spells Mana is great.
I think my mages had about 10 spells or so, after long gaming maybe 12-15, but mostly only one or two which do damage... mostly area with elemental effect.. i go for the BOOM. But i haven't played one for a long time (So not in 4th edition).
I think to start you are limited to only 2x spellcasting skill # of spells. So if you have a spellcasting of 6, you can start out with up to 12 spells. A 25 spell grimoire would be amazing to have though and I could only imagine the carnage you could cause with that versatility. I usually focus karma on initiation or improving skills, stats, and edge that my grimoire usually stays between 10-15 spells at most.
I tend to play mages that are a mix between good astral scouting, support, and combat and not a specialist in any category. I tend to rely mainly on stun spells and usually only have 2 or 3 combat spells total. If I were to make a top 10 (no order) list of spells that I use the most given this approach, it would be as follows:
improved invisibility....amazing for defense and infiltration
astral window (extended range)....to see through those pesky mana barriers, perfect for astral scouting without roving guard spirits spotting you
stunball....my default, low drain attack
trid phantasm....amazing uses from distraction to escape
levitation.....countless uses and ways to get out of tough spots
increased reflexes....lock onto a sustain focus or quicken and you are nearly as fast as your sam
heal....don't leave home without it
Fireball....when you can't see your enemy to target them, flame everything
Mind probe....very useful on interrogations, pain may not bring out the truth but this spell will
Alter memory...works well in conjunction with mind probe and helps in making people you interrogate forget all about you
Other spells that I have found to be great and pick up as soon as I can:
sanitize....(if the name is right) lets you get rid of biological evidence that lonestar can track you with
physical mask....endless uses from impersonation to escape, more specialized than trid phantasm but lacks the versatility
increased will.....same as above, but buffs out your drain resistance, astral combat, and resistance to damage on the astral
Mob control (or any action/mind control spell)....this should probably be top 10 over increase CHA
increase charisma....if you are a shaman or CHA drain type of mage, this makes you an even better face
If I were playing more of a support/buff mage....I might swap out for the various increase reflexes, combat sense, increase agility, etc to create some seriously accurate and hard to hit sams.
Many of the other players in my group really like physical barrier, mana barrier, armor, and deflection as well. I tend to just rely on invisibility on the material plane since it makes a shooter have to target you blind which ends up being better often times than any armor bonuses, but those spells can be swapped out if you prefer.
I also tend to prefer physical over the mana version of spells and rarely go for both when the physical can play double duty. Centering is definitely the way to go.
I tend to play mages that are a mix between good astral scouting, support, and combat and not a specialist in any category. I tend to rely mainly on stun spells and usually only have 2 or 3 combat spells total. If I were to make a top 10 (no order) list of spells that I use the most given this approach, it would be as follows:
improved invisibility....amazing for defense and infiltration
astral window (extended range)....to see through those pesky mana barriers, perfect for astral scouting without roving guard spirits spotting you
stunball....my default, low drain attack
trid phantasm....amazing uses from distraction to escape
levitation.....countless uses and ways to get out of tough spots
increased reflexes....lock onto a sustain focus or quicken and you are nearly as fast as your sam
heal....don't leave home without it
Fireball....when you can't see your enemy to target them, flame everything
Mind probe....very useful on interrogations, pain may not bring out the truth but this spell will
Alter memory...works well in conjunction with mind probe and helps in making people you interrogate forget all about you
Other spells that I have found to be great and pick up as soon as I can:
sanitize....(if the name is right) lets you get rid of biological evidence that lonestar can track you with
physical mask....endless uses from impersonation to escape, more specialized than trid phantasm but lacks the versatility
increased will.....same as above, but buffs out your drain resistance, astral combat, and resistance to damage on the astral
Mob control (or any action/mind control spell)....this should probably be top 10 over increase CHA
increase charisma....if you are a shaman or CHA drain type of mage, this makes you an even better face
If I were playing more of a support/buff mage....I might swap out for the various increase reflexes, combat sense, increase agility, etc to create some seriously accurate and hard to hit sams.
Many of the other players in my group really like physical barrier, mana barrier, armor, and deflection as well. I tend to just rely on invisibility on the material plane since it makes a shooter have to target you blind which ends up being better often times than any armor bonuses, but those spells can be swapped out if you prefer.
I also tend to prefer physical over the mana version of spells and rarely go for both when the physical can play double duty. Centering is definitely the way to go.
My current mage only has 5 spells: Powerbolt, Stunbolt, Armor, Trid Phantasm, and Heal. So far, of those, he's gotten by far the most use out of Trid Phantasm. He's never cast Armor and only uses Powerbolt when he's the only one available to blow up objects.
'Course, he's also only got 4 essence and has 12 dice to fire his assault rifle (9 for the underbarrel grenade launcher -- which reminds me, I gotta restock on HE grenades...). He's a Chaos Mage with a fetish for cyberware, bioware, AR, and all things high-tech. Very much a combat mage, with 15 ballistic armor and the assault rifle, he doesn't stand out as a mage until he starts casting spells (he does have a gesture geas -- he traces AR sigils, runes, and glyphs to cast his spells).
'Course, he's also only got 4 essence and has 12 dice to fire his assault rifle (9 for the underbarrel grenade launcher -- which reminds me, I gotta restock on HE grenades...). He's a Chaos Mage with a fetish for cyberware, bioware, AR, and all things high-tech. Very much a combat mage, with 15 ballistic armor and the assault rifle, he doesn't stand out as a mage until he starts casting spells (he does have a gesture geas -- he traces AR sigils, runes, and glyphs to cast his spells).
Lessee....
I believe it is something like this (no character sheet in front of me right now)
Heal - For obvious reasons...though we surprisingly don't get hurt too much.
Improved Invisibility - Mostly because I am the only one who has no Infiltration skill, I'm working on getting Stealth too, so I can be silent.
Dog Form - Precursor to Improved Invis, so I could have a disguise. No that I planned to fool people into thinking I was a dog, but it also served as a kind of "mask", so cameras couldn't see my face. Not so I won't ever be seen, just so they don't know who they are seeing.
Detox - For those quick hangover cures!
Stunball - A non-lethal approach to dealing with guards.
Manabal - A lethal approach to dealing with guards
Alter Memory - Come on...that's just fun to mess around with.
Clairvoyance - Because it isn't useful in the way I originally thought it would be, but it is still useful nonetheless.
Orgasm (Street Magic, btw) - Because the women they love me...(I know...it's pathetic, but increasingly hilarious too!)
For the most part I am a Conjurer, so most of my skills are put into Summoning, Binding and Banishing. I find that SPirits, when used creatively, can be oh so very useful...
I believe it is something like this (no character sheet in front of me right now)
Heal - For obvious reasons...though we surprisingly don't get hurt too much.
Improved Invisibility - Mostly because I am the only one who has no Infiltration skill, I'm working on getting Stealth too, so I can be silent.
Dog Form - Precursor to Improved Invis, so I could have a disguise. No that I planned to fool people into thinking I was a dog, but it also served as a kind of "mask", so cameras couldn't see my face. Not so I won't ever be seen, just so they don't know who they are seeing.
Detox - For those quick hangover cures!
Stunball - A non-lethal approach to dealing with guards.
Manabal - A lethal approach to dealing with guards
Alter Memory - Come on...that's just fun to mess around with.
Clairvoyance - Because it isn't useful in the way I originally thought it would be, but it is still useful nonetheless.
Orgasm (Street Magic, btw) - Because the women they love me...(I know...it's pathetic, but increasingly hilarious too!)
For the most part I am a Conjurer, so most of my skills are put into Summoning, Binding and Banishing. I find that SPirits, when used creatively, can be oh so very useful...
Recent PC (Druidic tradition/Dragon Slayer Mentor Spirit):
1.Stun Ball-for AOE combat effectiveness
2.Power bolt-for drones
3.Detect Life-(Debated guns, but life might be more useful-I rely on our teams hacker to take care of the drones)
4.Control Thoughts-Too many uses to list-down side to influence-user knows he/she was controlled.
5.Gecko Crawl-Minor stylistic difference with levitate, drain code is less as well.
6.Mind Probe-A quick interrogation. Not admissiable in a court of law, but you weren't taking the goon to court anyway. Don't rely on it, and do your legwork.
7.Trid Fantasm-useful, and I repeat such a utilitarian spell. Think about it-in a fire fight your team is really 5 feet from where they actually are.
8. Heal-duh.
9. Detox-well did use to keep my PC from getting drunk.
10. Increased reflexes-can we say wired reflexes 3-for 40K (rating 4 sustaining foci), 3BP and 8 karma, of course we could!!
1.Stun Ball-for AOE combat effectiveness
2.Power bolt-for drones
3.Detect Life-(Debated guns, but life might be more useful-I rely on our teams hacker to take care of the drones)
4.Control Thoughts-Too many uses to list-down side to influence-user knows he/she was controlled.
5.Gecko Crawl-Minor stylistic difference with levitate, drain code is less as well.
6.Mind Probe-A quick interrogation. Not admissiable in a court of law, but you weren't taking the goon to court anyway. Don't rely on it, and do your legwork.
7.Trid Fantasm-useful, and I repeat such a utilitarian spell. Think about it-in a fire fight your team is really 5 feet from where they actually are.
8. Heal-duh.
9. Detox-well did use to keep my PC from getting drunk.
10. Increased reflexes-can we say wired reflexes 3-for 40K (rating 4 sustaining foci), 3BP and 8 karma, of course we could!!
Playing a cybermage with 2 points of essence left, I chose spells for what the ware can't do while I preferred ware whenever possible.
Crank
Influence
Stunball
Stunbolt
Electro-aura
Nutrition
Vehicle Mask
Fireball
Shapechange
Levitate
Manabolt
Fashion
Armor
Physical Mask
Spatial Sense, Extended
Sterilize
Alter Temperature
Trid Phantasm
Improved Invisibility
Magic Fingers
Crank
Influence
Stunball
Stunbolt
Electro-aura
Nutrition
Vehicle Mask
Fireball
Shapechange
Levitate
Manabolt
Fashion
Armor
Physical Mask
Spatial Sense, Extended
Sterilize
Alter Temperature
Trid Phantasm
Improved Invisibility
Magic Fingers
My mages tend to have things like Manabolt, Powerbolt, Increased Reflexes, Heal, and a couple of other useful spells.
Also, having both a Mana and Physical version of a spell is useful since you cannot cast Physical spells on the Astral.
Also, having both a Mana and Physical version of a spell is useful since you cannot cast Physical spells on the Astral.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Aug 4 2009, 03:04 PM) 
Also, having both a Mana and Physical version of a spell is useful since you cannot cast Physical spells on the Astral.
That's why I do summoning..Spirits can act on both the Astral and physical realms...and pack one hell of a wallop too....but they don't really seam to be that great for area of effect abilities...most of their powers are single target effects...
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Aug 4 2009, 11:25 AM)
Recent PC (Druidic tradition/Dragon Slayer Mentor Spirit):
1.Stun Ball-for AOE combat effectiveness
2.Power bolt-for drones
3.Detect Life-(Debated guns, but life might be more useful-I rely on our teams hacker to take care of the drones)
4.Control Thoughts-Too many uses to list-down side to influence-user knows he/she was controlled.
5.Gecko Crawl-Minor stylistic difference with levitate, drain code is less as well.
6.Mind Probe-A quick interrogation. Not admissiable in a court of law, but you weren't taking the goon to court anyway. Don't rely on it, and do your legwork.
7.Trid Fantasm-useful, and I repeat such a utilitarian spell. Think about it-in a fire fight your team is really 5 feet from where they actually are.
8. Heal-duh.
9. Detox-well did use to keep my PC from getting drunk.
10. Increased reflexes-can we say wired reflexes 3-for 40K (rating 4 sustaining foci), 3BP and 8 karma, of course we could!!
1.Stun Ball-for AOE combat effectiveness
2.Power bolt-for drones
3.Detect Life-(Debated guns, but life might be more useful-I rely on our teams hacker to take care of the drones)
4.Control Thoughts-Too many uses to list-down side to influence-user knows he/she was controlled.
5.Gecko Crawl-Minor stylistic difference with levitate, drain code is less as well.
6.Mind Probe-A quick interrogation. Not admissiable in a court of law, but you weren't taking the goon to court anyway. Don't rely on it, and do your legwork.
7.Trid Fantasm-useful, and I repeat such a utilitarian spell. Think about it-in a fire fight your team is really 5 feet from where they actually are.
8. Heal-duh.
9. Detox-well did use to keep my PC from getting drunk.
10. Increased reflexes-can we say wired reflexes 3-for 40K (rating 4 sustaining foci), 3BP and 8 karma, of course we could!!
Oh-forgot
11. Sanitize-MR CLEAN!
12. Slay Spirit-Cheap way to off a spirit
i tend to make my own spells.
in sr4 for my free spirit character i have
create metal
manipulate metal
toxic stream
toxic wave
powerbolt
and stunbolt
thats all i generally need. i dont necessarily use the toxic spells or powerbolt for combat.
in sr4 for my free spirit character i have
create metal
manipulate metal
toxic stream
toxic wave
powerbolt
and stunbolt
thats all i generally need. i dont necessarily use the toxic spells or powerbolt for combat.
Create and Manipulte metal....I assume one obvious use might be to make a weapon of some sort?
or walls, armor, containers. i use it for a lot of things and my characters have metalworking and engineering skills aswell as armorer. im an all purpose metalworker.
Except in SR4 (unsure about earlier editions), you cannot have a 'create' spell.
Why not? I don't see any problems with that. (Although nowhere is a mass given). Hell Fashion is basically a create spell. Permanent and changes a material. A "create" spell is just an area-effect spell, physical, permanent and changes air molecules into something else. (Maybe elemental effect for added drain?)
My long-running mage (Sr3) had the following:
Stunbolt
Manaball
Lightning Bolt
Wreck Drone
Physical Mask
Imp. Invisibility
Armor
Agony
Heal
Prophylaxis
Oxygenate
Mind Probe
Influence
Increase Reflexes
Increase Body
Improve Aim (or whatever the smartlink analog was)
Clairvoyance
I think that was it. I only started out with an even spread of those, but over time it became apparent he should learn more runner-oriented spells.
Stunbolt
Manaball
Lightning Bolt
Wreck Drone
Physical Mask
Imp. Invisibility
Armor
Agony
Heal
Prophylaxis
Oxygenate
Mind Probe
Influence
Increase Reflexes
Increase Body
Improve Aim (or whatever the smartlink analog was)
Clairvoyance
I think that was it. I only started out with an even spread of those, but over time it became apparent he should learn more runner-oriented spells.
QUOTE (Maelstrome)
create metal
manipulate metal
manipulate metal
Didn't know about the "no create" rule, but back in the days of SR2 I had a custom spell that created a specific physical barrier in the shape of a sword. It did (STR/2)+Force damage to mortal and spirit alike. To keep with the rules (and not be penalized with concentrating on it while swordfighting) I had a custom sustaining focus that was in the shape of a sword handle.
Yup, I owned my own lightsaber...
...the force was strong with me!
Sign--
Wacky
QUOTE (Street Magic p.160)
Sorcery Cannot Create Complex Things
Though spellcraft can transform energy,
spark elemental forces, and even provide nutrition,
no magicians have yet determined a
way for sorcery to create complex items (such
as a gun or even a hammer) from mana alone—
despite the best efforts of research corps to
date. Sorcery can be used to fix and sometimes
transmute complex items, but the days
of summoning weapons from nowhere have
not yet arrived.
Though spellcraft can transform energy,
spark elemental forces, and even provide nutrition,
no magicians have yet determined a
way for sorcery to create complex items (such
as a gun or even a hammer) from mana alone—
despite the best efforts of research corps to
date. Sorcery can be used to fix and sometimes
transmute complex items, but the days
of summoning weapons from nowhere have
not yet arrived.
Fashion cannot change what the material is, nor how much of it there is. It is probably the closest you can come to a 'create' spell, and it does not in any way whatsoever 'create' something.
Manabolt
Manaball
Fireball
Clairvoyance
Detect Life
Prophylaxis
Increase Reflexes
Heal
Levitate
Physical Mask
Improved Invisibility
Influence
Mob-Mind
Manaball
Fireball
Clairvoyance
Detect Life
Prophylaxis
Increase Reflexes
Heal
Levitate
Physical Mask
Improved Invisibility
Influence
Mob-Mind
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Aug 5 2009, 01:07 AM)
Fashion cannot change what the material is, nor how much of it there is. It is probably the closest you can come to a 'create' spell, and it does not in any way whatsoever 'create' something.
The description you used DOES say that things can be transmuted though...as in lead to gold kind of transmuted.... Maybe you could take a kilo of dust and turn it into a kilo of wetal....all it is is rearranging the molecular structure, nothing is being "created"...
Edit: By the description you used, I mean the quote from Street Magic in your post...
QUOTE
and sometimes transmute
QUOTE (Transmute Definition)
to change from one nature, substance, form, or condition into another; transform.
to shift
to shift
QUOTE (Transform Definition)
to change in form, appearance, or structure; metamorphos
So, creating objects 'from nothing' is explicitly forbidden by RAW for Sorcery, but transmuting oxygen to metal is just fine. Sure, I suppose, by one definition of the word.
Don't even try to argue this - sure, you can use a spell to create metal. It is a house rule, flat out. And in using it, you might as well just play D&D, where magic is supposed to do everything.
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Aug 5 2009, 12:00 PM)
So, creating objects 'from nothing' is explicitly forbidden by RAW for Sorcery, but transmuting oxygen to metal is just fine. Sure, I suppose, by one definition of the word.
Don't even try to argue this - sure, you can use a spell to create metal. It is a house rule, flat out. And in using it, you might as well just play D&D, where magic is supposed to do everything.
Don't even try to argue this - sure, you can use a spell to create metal. It is a house rule, flat out. And in using it, you might as well just play D&D, where magic is supposed to do everything.
That's a pretty unfair estimate of SR and DnD I think...
They may be playing in an SR world where magic is more abundant and understood...there's no need to actually play in the exact history of the SR universe...
And the original world of Greyhawk (which I think a lot of long time DnD players relate to) was never abundant with magic...hell, a +1 dagger was pretty awesome even at 10th level because it was so rare! (Yes...this is an exaggeration... for some people at least)
I admit DnD has gotten progressively more "magic-friendly" since 3rd edition though...
wasnt there a create food spell in previous editions?
i based my create spell off that. who is to decide what is complex or simple. in sr3 metal, sand, and earth are elements and can be created with magic.
i based my create spell off that. who is to decide what is complex or simple. in sr3 metal, sand, and earth are elements and can be created with magic.
My girl Dover is a possession Fomori.
Knock-Out force 9, Double cast is her combat preference. Get up close to give cover for the rest of the team, and let the Immunity to normal weapons prevent most of the damage while i fight.
Powerbolt
Powerball (limited) One of the spells i regret having taken
Alter memory
Influence
Detox
Improved Invis
Blast wall another spell i regret
Shapechange The Final spell i regret - Haven't used it once. Who has time to strip naked? There is only one thing that is within 2 of my body in the main book - a horse.
If anyone have any recommendations on my next couple spells please send me a message. This is my First SR char. I was thinking Increase reflexes, Heal, and a Decrees [atribute] spell....
Knock-Out force 9, Double cast is her combat preference. Get up close to give cover for the rest of the team, and let the Immunity to normal weapons prevent most of the damage while i fight.
Powerbolt
Powerball (limited) One of the spells i regret having taken
Alter memory
Influence
Detox
Improved Invis
Blast wall another spell i regret
Shapechange The Final spell i regret - Haven't used it once. Who has time to strip naked? There is only one thing that is within 2 of my body in the main book - a horse.
If anyone have any recommendations on my next couple spells please send me a message. This is my First SR char. I was thinking Increase reflexes, Heal, and a Decrees [atribute] spell....
Everyone here listed the spells I used but I don't think anyone mentioned the Demolish spell. Personal favorite was demolish RFID and demolish gun. RFID for stealing things and taking care of tracking devices without needing a fine tooth comb and demolish gun for obvious reasons. The look on that Red Samurai when his gun turned to ash...well it was just priceless. The look as we gunned them all down without them being able to do anything? Even better.
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Aug 6 2009, 04:51 AM)
Everyone here listed the spells I used but I don't think anyone mentioned the Demolish spell. Personal favorite was demolish RFID and demolish gun. RFID for stealing things and taking care of tracking devices without needing a fine tooth comb and demolish gun for obvious reasons. The look on that Red Samurai when his gun turned to ash...well it was just priceless. The look as we gunned them all down without them being able to do anything? Even better.
Oh damn...which book? I would LOVE that!
Street Magic page 165 if I remember correctly.
I know its probably my most over powered spell in my grimoire. My GM had us face a few mages who had it but I planned for this with a powerful spirit I summoned specifically for counterspelling. Sure it kinda sucked I didnt get to use him in combat but only until we geeked the enemy mages. Then that force 7 guardian spirit went to town on their faces...and whatever else was allergic to a monowhip.
Oh and if you ever pick up the arcana skill designing your own spells is fun. I had made an emergency oh shit button spell with a drain of +7. My With the cyber I could handle it but it wasn't something I used all the time. I've only used it once against a horde of vampires. It was an AoE spell with the sound element and lightning element I called Thunderclap. I actually got an extra point of karma because besides those 9 more were coming and we were pretty beat up. In an effort to buy them time I overcasted it and was on the verge of death but our medic brought me back so I still got that survival point. I used to hate mages, now I'm starting to love them.
I know its probably my most over powered spell in my grimoire. My GM had us face a few mages who had it but I planned for this with a powerful spirit I summoned specifically for counterspelling. Sure it kinda sucked I didnt get to use him in combat but only until we geeked the enemy mages. Then that force 7 guardian spirit went to town on their faces...and whatever else was allergic to a monowhip.
Oh and if you ever pick up the arcana skill designing your own spells is fun. I had made an emergency oh shit button spell with a drain of +7. My With the cyber I could handle it but it wasn't something I used all the time. I've only used it once against a horde of vampires. It was an AoE spell with the sound element and lightning element I called Thunderclap. I actually got an extra point of karma because besides those 9 more were coming and we were pretty beat up. In an effort to buy them time I overcasted it and was on the verge of death but our medic brought me back so I still got that survival point. I used to hate mages, now I'm starting to love them.
I love the Arcan Skill...current spell I'm working on is sort of a personal Teleport spell (I know, teleport spells aren't available as of 2070, that's why I'm doing it)
The idea behind it is this:
Whilst casting, it shunts you into the Astral Realm, but as a purely Astral Entity, severing your connection to your physical body.
Then, it dematerializes your body.
Since ou can travel much much faster on the Astral plane than on the physical plane, you can get almost anywhere in very little time.
Next, the spell creates a physical body exactly like yours at a certain point on the physical plane, using available materials (such as air particles, dust, etc.) and transmuting them into an exact copy of your body at the time of dematerialization, so the spell works on a submolecular level.
Finally, it establishes a link between the new body and your astral self, allowing you to easily enter it.
Obviously, this isn't RAW, but our GM is very open to ideas (see my post called Limit of Infinity, wherein I explain that my GM decided to make a Magic using AI with innate TM like abilities whle inside a drone, and a life-loke looking android drone at that)
The teleport's drawbacks are that rematerializing my body can take over an hour, so if I am in the astral plane for 10 hours or more, I could potentially die (can only be in astral plane for Magic x 2 hours before you die) as well as the fact that my metagame estimate of how long it will take to research this spell is over a year...and the drain will be very costly....but it's worth it in my opinion....
The idea behind it is this:
Whilst casting, it shunts you into the Astral Realm, but as a purely Astral Entity, severing your connection to your physical body.
Then, it dematerializes your body.
Since ou can travel much much faster on the Astral plane than on the physical plane, you can get almost anywhere in very little time.
Next, the spell creates a physical body exactly like yours at a certain point on the physical plane, using available materials (such as air particles, dust, etc.) and transmuting them into an exact copy of your body at the time of dematerialization, so the spell works on a submolecular level.
Finally, it establishes a link between the new body and your astral self, allowing you to easily enter it.
Obviously, this isn't RAW, but our GM is very open to ideas (see my post called Limit of Infinity, wherein I explain that my GM decided to make a Magic using AI with innate TM like abilities whle inside a drone, and a life-loke looking android drone at that)
The teleport's drawbacks are that rematerializing my body can take over an hour, so if I am in the astral plane for 10 hours or more, I could potentially die (can only be in astral plane for Magic x 2 hours before you die) as well as the fact that my metagame estimate of how long it will take to research this spell is over a year...and the drain will be very costly....but it's worth it in my opinion....
That sounds pretty freaking cool. You know i've realized most of the mage builds I have seen dont use arcana. I think it's kind of a waste considering what you can do with it.
Well...my background puts me as a small time Talismonger who does shadowrunning on the side. I have both enchanting and Arcana, as well as a few mundane crafting skills, and regularly use them to make custom things for myself and my customers. Usually, they are simple things that have no real in-game use, but it helps add to the flavor of my character.
One of the big things I sell that the kids love is a custom enchanted doll which can perform various actions based on what the kids order.... I have a few that dance when asked to and even a set of 2 dolls with plastic swords that battle each other when put together. Like I said, no real in-game use other than to pay or my lifestyle, but interesting flavor...
I am, however, currently working on crafting a magical katana for a fellow runner. The Steel I am using is naturally occuring highly magical stell found deep below the surface of the earth... (We stole it from a secret research base on the ocean floor near the North Pole...)
I figure it has to at least be an exotic magical material, so it should be very interesting to work with and very useful in the crafting...
One of the big things I sell that the kids love is a custom enchanted doll which can perform various actions based on what the kids order.... I have a few that dance when asked to and even a set of 2 dolls with plastic swords that battle each other when put together. Like I said, no real in-game use other than to pay or my lifestyle, but interesting flavor...
I am, however, currently working on crafting a magical katana for a fellow runner. The Steel I am using is naturally occuring highly magical stell found deep below the surface of the earth... (We stole it from a secret research base on the ocean floor near the North Pole...)
I figure it has to at least be an exotic magical material, so it should be very interesting to work with and very useful in the crafting...
I've been working on turning my force 7 guardian spirit into an ally spirit which should make things a bit easier for me...until my gm decides to knock me down a peg.
This is a question to the OP, what are all these spells you have? I mean honestly, 25? You could have purchased some pretty cool metamagics with all of that.
This is a question to the OP, what are all these spells you have? I mean honestly, 25? You could have purchased some pretty cool metamagics with all of that.
I had been working on an 'Astral Form' spell for some time, trying to get the kinks out. Then, I realized it functioned much better as a metamagic, not a spell.
QUOTE
Astral Shift (Adept, Magician)
Prerequisite: Astral Projection, Dual Perception
Astral shift allows an initiate’s entire being - physical, mental, and spiritual - to enter the astral plane and reemerge into the physical world at a new location.
Shifting to astral space takes a Complex Action and causes (10 – Initiate Grade)S Drain. Returning to physical space takes a Complex Action.
While astrally shifted, an initiate uses all the normal rules for astral projection (p.192, SR4A), except an initiate may maintain their astral shift for up to Magic minutes. After this time, if she has not returned to the physical plane, she will die and her astral form will dissipate.
Prerequisite: Astral Projection, Dual Perception
Astral shift allows an initiate’s entire being - physical, mental, and spiritual - to enter the astral plane and reemerge into the physical world at a new location.
Shifting to astral space takes a Complex Action and causes (10 – Initiate Grade)S Drain. Returning to physical space takes a Complex Action.
While astrally shifted, an initiate uses all the normal rules for astral projection (p.192, SR4A), except an initiate may maintain their astral shift for up to Magic minutes. After this time, if she has not returned to the physical plane, she will die and her astral form will dissipate.
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Aug 6 2009, 05:51 PM)
I had been working on an 'Astral Form' spell for some time, trying to get the kinks out. Then, I realized it functioned much better as a metamagic, not a spell.
Oooh...that's pretty interesting...making it a number of minutes instead of hours to cover the "Risk Factor"
It would be too overpowered if there wasn't a chance of character death....I might borrow a bit from your idea....
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Aug 6 2009, 11:08 PM)
That sounds pretty freaking cool. You know i've realized most of the mage builds I have seen dont use arcana. I think it's kind of a waste considering what you can do with it.
Joining a magical group requires an arcana skill test.
Which is another reason to take it! I prefer it over enchanting but both are useful. Plus you can make all sort's of things with it. The adept player in my group wished I had taken enchanting to make her a weapon focus but I made it up to her by loaning her a spirit for training purposes and as back up since shes our infiltrator.
On a somewhat related note can spirits use foci? I would assume no but I was wondering in case I could get a weapon focus for my ally spirit. It seems pretty over powered but I cant get to my book at the moment to check. Also someone mentioned something about unique enchanted items that the GM makes and said the rules were in SM. Where are they?
On a somewhat related note can spirits use foci? I would assume no but I was wondering in case I could get a weapon focus for my ally spirit. It seems pretty over powered but I cant get to my book at the moment to check. Also someone mentioned something about unique enchanted items that the GM makes and said the rules were in SM. Where are they?
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Aug 6 2009, 08:28 PM)
Which is another reason to take it! I prefer it over enchanting but both are useful. Plus you can make all sort's of things with it. The adept player in my group wished I had taken enchanting to make her a weapon focus but I made it up to her by loaning her a spirit for training purposes and as back up since shes our infiltrator.
On a somewhat related note can spirits use foci? I would assume no but I was wondering in case I could get a weapon focus for my ally spirit. It seems pretty over powered but I cant get to my book at the moment to check. Also someone mentioned something about unique enchanted items that the GM makes and said the rules were in SM. Where are they?
On a somewhat related note can spirits use foci? I would assume no but I was wondering in case I could get a weapon focus for my ally spirit. It seems pretty over powered but I cant get to my book at the moment to check. Also someone mentioned something about unique enchanted items that the GM makes and said the rules were in SM. Where are they?
The unique enchantment rules are incredibly vague and not useful at all.... there are rules for making your own foci...but I'm guessing that that's not what you're looking for...
In SM, all the Unique enchantments section does is give GMs permission to think of some powerful enchantment...like Turn Spirit to Guacamole.... and then make it a plot device... not really anything for Players...
Digital Grimoire, which you can download, is kind of an expansion for SM, but doesn't really help either...however, it does give a small example of a possible player created sword... If I can find my copy (as in the file on my incredibly cluttered computer) I can try and post the example, but its probably the only really helpful thing from either book...
The best thing to do is pretty much to talk it over with your GM and see if you can houserule something in...
EDIT: Another nice thing about Arcana, Mundanes can take it...so you DON'T have to be magical to help a magician...
Ahhh I see...spiritual guacamole sounds like it would be addicting...and delicious depending on the spirit.
I have digital grimoire but I haven't had a chance to really go through it yet.
Ya thats what I thought. Started talking to him about it last night he said sure, if I am willing to go through a difficult run and a quest on the metaplanes to activate it. After about 5 minutes of nachos I said sure. Should be fun...hopefully.
Our...5th run I think was actually helping a mundane spell designer destroy some of his own work so Ares couldn't use it for something pretty messed up.
A lot of magic stuff requires logic or charisma which kind of leaves the intuition traditions out in the cold. I thought of instead making the skills linked to one of these attributes making it linked to the drain stat. Does this sound like it would even the playing field a bit? I will be running a game and one of my players wanted to be buddist but changed his mind when he realized it would be better to take a logic or charisma based one. I don't want to hold him back because of mechanics when it's not that big of a deal. Should I change it the way I said before or just change the drain stat for him so he gets what he wants flavor wise and doesn't get knocked over the head because he would be a better mage by choosing a different tradition.
I have digital grimoire but I haven't had a chance to really go through it yet.
Ya thats what I thought. Started talking to him about it last night he said sure, if I am willing to go through a difficult run and a quest on the metaplanes to activate it. After about 5 minutes of nachos I said sure. Should be fun...hopefully.
Our...5th run I think was actually helping a mundane spell designer destroy some of his own work so Ares couldn't use it for something pretty messed up.
A lot of magic stuff requires logic or charisma which kind of leaves the intuition traditions out in the cold. I thought of instead making the skills linked to one of these attributes making it linked to the drain stat. Does this sound like it would even the playing field a bit? I will be running a game and one of my players wanted to be buddist but changed his mind when he realized it would be better to take a logic or charisma based one. I don't want to hold him back because of mechanics when it's not that big of a deal. Should I change it the way I said before or just change the drain stat for him so he gets what he wants flavor wise and doesn't get knocked over the head because he would be a better mage by choosing a different tradition.
so.... he thinks assensing is useless then?
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Aug 7 2009, 04:19 PM)
Ahhh I see...spiritual guacamole sounds like it would be addicting...and delicious depending on the spirit.
I have digital grimoire but I haven't had a chance to really go through it yet.
Ya thats what I thought. Started talking to him about it last night he said sure, if I am willing to go through a difficult run and a quest on the metaplanes to activate it. After about 5 minutes of nachos I said sure. Should be fun...hopefully.
Our...5th run I think was actually helping a mundane spell designer destroy some of his own work so Ares couldn't use it for something pretty messed up.
A lot of magic stuff requires logic or charisma which kind of leaves the intuition traditions out in the cold. I thought of instead making the skills linked to one of these attributes making it linked to the drain stat. Does this sound like it would even the playing field a bit? I will be running a game and one of my players wanted to be buddist but changed his mind when he realized it would be better to take a logic or charisma based one. I don't want to hold him back because of mechanics when it's not that big of a deal. Should I change it the way I said before or just change the drain stat for him so he gets what he wants flavor wise and doesn't get knocked over the head because he would be a better mage by choosing a different tradition.
I have digital grimoire but I haven't had a chance to really go through it yet.
Ya thats what I thought. Started talking to him about it last night he said sure, if I am willing to go through a difficult run and a quest on the metaplanes to activate it. After about 5 minutes of nachos I said sure. Should be fun...hopefully.
Our...5th run I think was actually helping a mundane spell designer destroy some of his own work so Ares couldn't use it for something pretty messed up.
A lot of magic stuff requires logic or charisma which kind of leaves the intuition traditions out in the cold. I thought of instead making the skills linked to one of these attributes making it linked to the drain stat. Does this sound like it would even the playing field a bit? I will be running a game and one of my players wanted to be buddist but changed his mind when he realized it would be better to take a logic or charisma based one. I don't want to hold him back because of mechanics when it's not that big of a deal. Should I change it the way I said before or just change the drain stat for him so he gets what he wants flavor wise and doesn't get knocked over the head because he would be a better mage by choosing a different tradition.
With the preface that I'm a SR noob, I'd say go for it. The magic system in general ties to every mental except Intuition. That is possibly a designer giving deference to Int's role in Initiative, but is more likely a quirk. I think Street Magic even suggests letting Arcana tie to the stat involved in drain, saying it reflects the tradition's approach to magic.
If I were running an SR game, I'd let players trade their drain stat within reason. Allowing a little trading around for concept (and maybe "balance) is fine, but too much and you will find yourself with single stat based runners of every type.
Its not that he thinks its useless. With logic you get a bunch of different useful skills like medical skills, demolitions, etc. and you can boost it pretty easily with implants. For .6 essence you get +3 to your drain stat and still have enough room for one or maybe 2 other implants. Loosing one point of magic is worth that.
With charisma you can have more spirits and be a pretty good face and while few there is at least one aug for charisma.
Intuition has assensing, disguise, and perception. With the right spell disguise is null and void which leaves the useful skills of assensing and perception. Both useful but not nearly as many skills when compared to the other 2, especially logic. With logic also covering learning new spells and arcana it seems like you get the most bang for your buck with that.
Ya I remember that rule, its what made me think of just tying the drain stat to other magic stuff since tons of stuff are tied to logic and it gives it sort of an unfair advantage.
Hm, didn't think of that. The only mages I ever saw were all logic based up until now because of the reasons i stated above. The single stat thing is something I want to avoid but at the same time I am already seeing that happen with everyone choosing logic based traditions with a few odd ones choosing charisma based ones to either be our face or help it.
With charisma you can have more spirits and be a pretty good face and while few there is at least one aug for charisma.
Intuition has assensing, disguise, and perception. With the right spell disguise is null and void which leaves the useful skills of assensing and perception. Both useful but not nearly as many skills when compared to the other 2, especially logic. With logic also covering learning new spells and arcana it seems like you get the most bang for your buck with that.
Ya I remember that rule, its what made me think of just tying the drain stat to other magic stuff since tons of stuff are tied to logic and it gives it sort of an unfair advantage.
Hm, didn't think of that. The only mages I ever saw were all logic based up until now because of the reasons i stated above. The single stat thing is something I want to avoid but at the same time I am already seeing that happen with everyone choosing logic based traditions with a few odd ones choosing charisma based ones to either be our face or help it.
You have failed to consider the full importance of Intuition. It has a direct affect on your character's capabilities outside of linked skills - Initiative.
Even without Assensing or Perception, Intuition is a very valuable attribute to have.
Even without Assensing or Perception, Intuition is a very valuable attribute to have.
QUOTE
Digital Grimoire Page 9
SAMPLE UNIQUE ENCHANTMENT
Lyran has been hired to construct a unique enchantment
using an unique enchantment formula, an ancient
japanese text, provided by her employer. First things fi rst:
Lyran can’t read Japanese, so she scans the text and runs
it through a translation program, which chokes on the arcane
terminology and archaic bits, but gives her a gist of
what she’s looking at.
The gamemaster decides translating the formula would
be an Arcana + Magic (36, 1 month) Extended Test. Lyran
doesn’t have that sort of time, so she asks if she can just
fi gure out who can use the formula.
An Arcana + Logic (2) Test permits analysis of the
formula. Lyran rolls 8 dice and scores 2 hits. The unique
enchantment formula describes how to forge a unique enchantment—
it looks a bit like a weapon focus to Lyran—in the
form of a particular style of katana using the symbolism and
notation consistent with the Buddhist tradition of magic.
Lyran needs to fi nd a Buddhist swordsmith-enchanter.
After a lot of long-distance commcalls, calling in a couple
markers, a discreet datasteal from MCT, and a punch-up
with some Yakuza, Lyran makes contact with Hiro Gassan,
scion of a line of Imperial Japanese swordsmiths and a mystic
adept. After a bit of haggling, Gassan agrees to forge
the sword–but the formula requires a number of exotic reagents:
unique radicals of air, earth, fi re, and water; natural
radicals from throughout Asia; a tooth from an Eastern
dragon; ten units of orichalcum; and a live metahuman who
will be sacrifi ced to complete the enchantment.
While Lyran was gathering the components of the enchantment,
Gassan had refurbished the forgotten retreat
of a yamabushi hermit as a Buddhist shrine (Rating 6
Magical Lodge) in a secluded cave on Kiso Ontake-san. The
formula had included specifi c requirements concerning the
daily rituals of purifi cation the enchanter must undertake.
Mechanically, this means Gassan must abide by the Ritual
geas (see Ritual Geas, p. 28, Street Magic) while enchanting
the blade. The enchanting will be conducted at the same
time the blade is forged, sharpened, named, and blooded.
The Enchanting Test to create the focus is Enchanting
+ Magic (20, 1 day). Hiro Gassan has Enchanting 5, Magic 5,
Edge 2, is using exotic telesma, four reagent materials, and
the equivalent Force of the focus is 6. He rolls 12 dice and
accumulates 22 hits over seven rolls.
One week after he began assembling the focus, Gassan
completes the enchantment by driving the blade through
the body of the living metahuman. Using astral perception,
Lyran sees part of the victim’s aura actually detach and fl ow
into the sword. This sacrifi ce replaces the typical Binding
ritual for the blade. Gassan presents Lyran with the blade
Kurokawa. Lyran sighs with relief. Now all she has to do is
get this thing through customs back to Seattle.
Kurokawa, The Black River
The bright blade Kurokawa is a katana featuring a vein
of orichalcum running the length of its folded steel blade,
and a hilt carved from the fang of an adult Eastern dragon.
Hiro Gassan, descendent of a line of Japanese master
swordsmiths, used an ancient magical formula to instill the
unique enchantment within the blade.
Kurokawa acts as a Force 6 weapon focus. The sword
immediately bonds with anyone who holds it, magician
or mundane, without having to pay Karma or perform a
bonding ritual and they gain the benefi t of the focus immediately.
The blade is always active and dual-natured and
cannot be deactivated except through force (such as the
Disrupt Focus spell or an astral barrier). Kurokawa’s wielder,
even a mundane, may become subject to Focus Addiction
(See Focus Addiction, p.26–27, Street Magic), becoming obsessed
with the blade.
SAMPLE UNIQUE ENCHANTMENT
Lyran has been hired to construct a unique enchantment
using an unique enchantment formula, an ancient
japanese text, provided by her employer. First things fi rst:
Lyran can’t read Japanese, so she scans the text and runs
it through a translation program, which chokes on the arcane
terminology and archaic bits, but gives her a gist of
what she’s looking at.
The gamemaster decides translating the formula would
be an Arcana + Magic (36, 1 month) Extended Test. Lyran
doesn’t have that sort of time, so she asks if she can just
fi gure out who can use the formula.
An Arcana + Logic (2) Test permits analysis of the
formula. Lyran rolls 8 dice and scores 2 hits. The unique
enchantment formula describes how to forge a unique enchantment—
it looks a bit like a weapon focus to Lyran—in the
form of a particular style of katana using the symbolism and
notation consistent with the Buddhist tradition of magic.
Lyran needs to fi nd a Buddhist swordsmith-enchanter.
After a lot of long-distance commcalls, calling in a couple
markers, a discreet datasteal from MCT, and a punch-up
with some Yakuza, Lyran makes contact with Hiro Gassan,
scion of a line of Imperial Japanese swordsmiths and a mystic
adept. After a bit of haggling, Gassan agrees to forge
the sword–but the formula requires a number of exotic reagents:
unique radicals of air, earth, fi re, and water; natural
radicals from throughout Asia; a tooth from an Eastern
dragon; ten units of orichalcum; and a live metahuman who
will be sacrifi ced to complete the enchantment.
While Lyran was gathering the components of the enchantment,
Gassan had refurbished the forgotten retreat
of a yamabushi hermit as a Buddhist shrine (Rating 6
Magical Lodge) in a secluded cave on Kiso Ontake-san. The
formula had included specifi c requirements concerning the
daily rituals of purifi cation the enchanter must undertake.
Mechanically, this means Gassan must abide by the Ritual
geas (see Ritual Geas, p. 28, Street Magic) while enchanting
the blade. The enchanting will be conducted at the same
time the blade is forged, sharpened, named, and blooded.
The Enchanting Test to create the focus is Enchanting
+ Magic (20, 1 day). Hiro Gassan has Enchanting 5, Magic 5,
Edge 2, is using exotic telesma, four reagent materials, and
the equivalent Force of the focus is 6. He rolls 12 dice and
accumulates 22 hits over seven rolls.
One week after he began assembling the focus, Gassan
completes the enchantment by driving the blade through
the body of the living metahuman. Using astral perception,
Lyran sees part of the victim’s aura actually detach and fl ow
into the sword. This sacrifi ce replaces the typical Binding
ritual for the blade. Gassan presents Lyran with the blade
Kurokawa. Lyran sighs with relief. Now all she has to do is
get this thing through customs back to Seattle.
Kurokawa, The Black River
The bright blade Kurokawa is a katana featuring a vein
of orichalcum running the length of its folded steel blade,
and a hilt carved from the fang of an adult Eastern dragon.
Hiro Gassan, descendent of a line of Japanese master
swordsmiths, used an ancient magical formula to instill the
unique enchantment within the blade.
Kurokawa acts as a Force 6 weapon focus. The sword
immediately bonds with anyone who holds it, magician
or mundane, without having to pay Karma or perform a
bonding ritual and they gain the benefi t of the focus immediately.
The blade is always active and dual-natured and
cannot be deactivated except through force (such as the
Disrupt Focus spell or an astral barrier). Kurokawa’s wielder,
even a mundane, may become subject to Focus Addiction
(See Focus Addiction, p.26–27, Street Magic), becoming obsessed
with the blade.
There you go.... This is about all that's useful in the Unique enchanting section....
Hey fellas, I forgot to check this thread because the first couple of days showed only a few posts; I come back and it's 2 pages long!
Thanks for the good ideas, I like the demolish spell and the slay spirit spell. I think I picked up too many spells when I should have been bankrolling Karma for initiation and other stuff but now my mage's name is Gerber (ala multitool) so I guess it's ten cents one way, a dime the other.
Regards,
Pax
Thanks for the good ideas, I like the demolish spell and the slay spirit spell. I think I picked up too many spells when I should have been bankrolling Karma for initiation and other stuff but now my mage's name is Gerber (ala multitool) so I guess it's ten cents one way, a dime the other.
Regards,
Pax
In general, you should only have a spell for the things that only magic can accomplish. Powerbolt? Just use a silenced pistol. Stunball, now, there's a trick you have a hard time duplicating without magic. Utility spells like Fashion and Heal also are very good for what they do. Heal is the only place where I'd recommend "doubling up" with mundane measures, because they stack.
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Aug 7 2009, 05:07 PM)
Its not that he thinks its useless. With logic you get a bunch of different useful skills like medical skills, demolitions, etc. and you can boost it pretty easily with implants. For .6 essence you get +3 to your drain stat and still have enough room for one or maybe 2 other implants. Loosing one point of magic is worth that.
With charisma you can have more spirits and be a pretty good face and while few there is at least one aug for charisma.
Intuition has assensing, disguise, and perception. With the right spell disguise is null and void which leaves the useful skills of assensing and perception. Both useful but not nearly as many skills when compared to the other 2, especially logic. With logic also covering learning new spells and arcana it seems like you get the most bang for your buck with that.
With charisma you can have more spirits and be a pretty good face and while few there is at least one aug for charisma.
Intuition has assensing, disguise, and perception. With the right spell disguise is null and void which leaves the useful skills of assensing and perception. Both useful but not nearly as many skills when compared to the other 2, especially logic. With logic also covering learning new spells and arcana it seems like you get the most bang for your buck with that.
you know, i can understand the whole "logic gets the easy-to-augment attribute" deal. but frankly, you're a mage. why do you even have build points left to consider medicine or demolitions? your argument is that you want to be a crappy mage and a decent something else, and intuition is not very god for the something else you specifically want. well, ok, that's nice... but that still leaves the question of why you want to be a crappy magician so that you can be halfway decent at something else? you are a neverending bottomless pit of hunger for karma. you've probably got half a dozen metamagics you'd like to know, a few spells you couldn't cram in at chargen, specialisations to choose in your key skills and additional skill levels to increase (i'm guessing you didn't start with 6 spellcasting, counterspelling, summoning, and binding, each with specialisations, let alone assensing, arcana, and/or possibly enchanting)... then you've got attributes to improve using karma, since they won't be at your natural or augmented max (or at the very least, powerful sustaining focuses to bind to hold your improve attribute spells). seriously. take a look at what you'd like your character to someday have. then ask yourself what resources you can spare if you want your magician to be what you want it to be.
QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 9 2009, 01:02 AM)
In general, you should only have a spell for the things that only magic can accomplish. Powerbolt? Just use a silenced pistol. Stunball, now, there's a trick you have a hard time duplicating without magic.
actually, stunball isn't that hard. it's called 'flashbangs'. unless you're referring to the silenced aspect, in which case it starts getting really pricey, and you're looking at something like a narcoject splash grenade with DMSO...
Well the problems been solved but to answer Jaid we were talking about later on. I played a mage to 120 karma, still playing him though, and I didn't need all of that in magical stuff to make him effective. I branched out into other skills and I am the backup doctor and I help our rigger when he is in the shop. So I'm not a crappy mage, I'm a fine mage with enough magic to take on small groups by himself and im also a decent doctor and mechanic with 10 dice in both of those without modifiers or specs. On the magic side however I have 16 die in combat, health, and manipulation spells, 14 in the others, and 16 in drain so I think I'm doing pretty well since we have a 20 die cap til the next "chapter" of our campaign.
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