How Do I Play a Mage?, I can roll one up, but I don't have any strategy or plan in combat Options

[Geek the Mage Fi...]

I have Spellcasting at 6, Magic at 6, and yet sometimes last night I was rolling only 5 dice for my spells. I got suckered into Melee combat and could not possibly escape, even wagging a sword in their face I couldn't run away and cast spells from range, so I was stuck with a wound modifier from an unlucky drain (I cast spells for Drain Value 3 or less, even rolling 10 dice you can fail to get 3 hits), vision modifier for low light (my Mage Sight Goggles do nothing!) and a Ranged Combat modifier for casting while melee.

After that it all went downhill, I couldn't hit them at all; I couldn't escape without dying (at least statistically speaking it was highly likely that they'd get their free attack and just catch up to me on their pass and finish me off). There's no incentive for the GM to go for the tank or the bruiser, our rule at the table is... well... my user name. We always geek the Mage first because they are a glass cannon; easily defeated and too deadly not to kill first.

What's everyone else's experience in game, on paper I'm power gamed but I suck in combat.

-"Surge"

BTW I loved the thread on Foci and Astral Space but didn't feel like there was any consensus, having played 3rd edition quite a lot I seem to remember foci being deactivated a prelude to being attacked. In 4E I stroll around with a Force 3 Sustaining Focus for Increased Reflexes so I can get another 2 IP's and waste people with my Mana Bolts, Power Bolts, and Lightning Bolts.

[Warlordtheft]

What is your spell list, did you have any spirits (what is your tradition)?

Melee? What are you thinking?-also remember that unlike D&D there are no attacke of opputunity so spells are unaffected by melee combat. That and spells when cast don't have to be that noticable.

Also, you could bind a few spirits for an intant goon squad.

In no circumstance should you ever be in the front lines getting shot at. That is what the troll is for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) (ok you can use your spirit in that role as well).

PS: I am talking from 4E-but this would apply to earlier eds as well.

[wylie]

my first question is what was causing your dice pools to be cut in half for spells?

buy low light goggles, too

[WyldKnight]

If you had soft maxed your magic at 5 instead of 6 you would have found a lot more use for those points. 1 die is not worth 8 spells, 6 skill levels, and 125,000 nuyen. Cover is always your friend so remember to get behind the biggest thing you can find. A good idea is to not let them know your the mage. You don't need to be out in the open about it, just need line of sight and unlike most games, or unless you took one of the negative qualities, you aren't doing any obvious chanting and hand waving to mark you as a mage. Mana bolt a guy and have your biggest toughest guy do all the chanting as if he is doing it. Worked well in my group.

[Summerstorm]

Also... since when is beeing a mage an excuse for not being loaded with armor and knowing kung-fu? Also: touch attacks...

But really... what took 7 dice of your casting pool? Do you have no edge?

[knasser]

I'd say your first mistake was getting Magic and Spellcasting at 6. You've spent extra points for less return and probably incited your GM to hit your character hard in an attempt to deal with his considerable power. In Shadowrun, everyone hits harder than they can take - it's asymetrical. So with that level of offensive power, you're probably coming up against opposition that has a similar level of offensive power. And neither side can handle what the other can dish out. I'm guessing based on just those two stats that your character is quite optimised for heavy hitting and has some very weak areas.

My advice is to play differently. Your tactics might be okay, but your strategy should be to never get yourself into these situations and to ensure that when you do get into such situations, you hold more cards than your opponent. As you've seen, dice pool modifiers can rack up quickly. Ensure that they're being applied to your opponents not you. Find cover, adjust lighting, get good Infiltration skills and a chamelon suit and stay hidden the whole time your casting spells. Take a portable drill and cast spells through holes in doors, floors and walls. Do anything not to win fights, but to arrange fights that you can win.

All that said, it doesn't sound like your team mates are doing their part. Why, if you're weak in melee, are they leaving you in melee? If you're trying to run away from a fight because you're hurt, why aren't they leaping in to block pursuers. And why are they letting people get in melee with you in the first place? The moment someone pulls a knife on you, the samurai should be pulling an SMG on them. The thing with Shadowrun is, as you've found, once things go South, they can go South very quickly. Even if you're a power-gamer on paper, in Shadowrun you need to back it up with good tactics, cunning and, ideally, treachery.

It might also just be your GM struggling to deal with a Magic 6, Spellcasting 6 cannon. When the big guns are pulled on you, it's tricky to provide a challenging game without drawing the big guns back, engineering melee ambushes, etc. But the answer remains the same: planning, treachery and never, ever fighting fair.

I realise these are all general points, but I feel they are the most valid. On a specific side, I'd recommend making some adjustments so you are not a glass cannon. The Armour spell is good (though bad for Infiltration rolls as the spell is visible), so Deflection is a good alternative that should help you keep alive. A sustaining focus is your friend as you can have a nice boosted Body attribute, or Agility without penalty. If you're trying the Stealth approach, there's no reason why you can't stay invisible and cast spells. And even a Force 3 spirit can give you 3 more dice on Concealment (along with the rest of the party). Also, work out why they know that you're a mage. Do you wear a special hat? If not, and you're being pre-emptively shot at, ask your GM why they're targeting the skinniest, least threatening looking character? Magicians are not exactly common. Mage goggles aren't for low-light (and wylie's comment about getting low-light goggles wont help as you can't cast spells through non-optical vision mods), Mage Goggles are for firing around corners (or troll samurai). Use that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You can even cast spells via mirrors if you want to!

Spirits are always good, though an expensive habit if you try to Bind them.

Also, you say that there's no incentive for the GM to go for the tank or bruiser. That's wrong. If your GM thinks that then he / she isn't being fair. A decent samurai should be laying down an absolute hail of fire, knocking down enemy after enemy. That makes them a serious threat to take out.

So to summarise;
1. Always initiate combat on your own terms.
2. Take protective measures to make your character more durable (this includes care with what Force you cast at)
3. Ensure that your GM is playing fair and isn't just panicked into trying to kill the magical slaughter machine.

I'd add not over-optimising for killing things at the expense of survivability as well, because Shadowrun is very dangerous. But as your character is built and in game, it is probably too late for that.

Hope this helps,

Khadim.

[Zormal]

A quick fix for lighting modifiers is to use astral sight. You get a -2, but ignore all lighting conditions. Better than the alternative in some cases.

Also, it sounds like you need to get yourself some extra IPs.

But the main thing is, as people already pointed out, not to put yourself in the line of fire.

[knasser]

A quick fix for lighting modifiers is to use astral sight. You get a -2, but ignore all lighting conditions. Better than the alternative in some cases.

Also, it sounds like you need to get yourself some extra IPs.

But the main thing is, as people already pointed out, not to put yourself in the line of fire.

Good call on the Astral Sight.

Also, Inline Skates (in Arsenal). Cheap and you can run away from most people who use old-fashioned foot-technology.

[Mr. Mage]

I'd like to know your spell list too...there are several spells that can help you to either not be detected or to not be hurt so easily... Invisibility and Armor come to mind, and with a few Sustaining Foci or bound spirits, they don't really hamper your casting ability.

Also, ask your GM how the enemies keep knowing he is a Mage... Spell effects don't have to be flashy, since depending on how you interpret the rules, you only need to concentrate to cast a spell, no verbal incanttions or hand waving needed. And unless the enemy has a Mage as well (or some way of Assensing you), they can't exactly tell who's magic and who isn't right of the bat. If you're worried that your Talismans/Foci might give you away, keep in mind that the can be small enough to be in your pocket and don't even have to look like anything out of the ordinary...they could just be a coin or small everyday object... I suspect that if you are getting ganged up on each time, then the GM is using outsider knowledge and not playing as if the NPCs don't know that you are a mage.

You could also look into CyWare, like Bone Density implants (or whatever they are called). It will make you a bit more resilient, but at the cost of a little essence and magic (which if you have 6 Magic, you can afford to lose one point of it...)

[Kliko]

Tote around an assault rifle, works like a charm every time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Orcus Blackweath...]

Hummm and as for how to play, avoid combat at all costs. I don't care if you are rolling 90 dice for your combat spell, never having to roll it at all is the best plan.

There are a number of non-combat spells that can accomplish things that bullets cannot. Invisibility, levitation, illusions, mental affect spells, enemy detection, and much more.

I think every character should have at least one thing they can do to help the group in combat. that being said, I believe every character should have 10 things they can do to accomplish the teams goals without fighting.

First thing you should do is examine your place in the group. If it is a team of high powered streetsams, let them do the heavy lifting, and concentrate on how you can enhance them. If your team is combat light, then examine how you can help the team to avoid the fight, or escape it once it starts.

[Mr. Mage]

Tote around an assault rifle, works like a charm every time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Meh, depends on your style....I for one prefer to play the "pure" mage just because it's different from the rest of the tech heads in the 6th world.... I'll leave the shooting to other people...

[toolbox]

You could also look into CyWare, like Bone Density implants (or whatever they are called). It will make you a bit more resilient, but at the cost of a little essence and magic (which if you have 6 Magic, you can afford to lose one point of it...)

If you go this route, seriously consider swapping out those baby blues for some chrome as well or instead.

[Orcus Blackweath...]

The thing about assault rifles is that cops tend to shoot at people that are carrying them.

Truthfully all of the issues you have with spells exist with handguns as well (well mostly anyhow). If you are suffering vision penalties, wound penalties, and god hates you penalties to your spellcasting, odds are that most of those translate one to one for all of your actions. If I cannot use my strongest ability due to penalties, all of my secondary skills are going to be completely hosed.

I do recommend carrying a pistol just for camouflage (I like narcojet or taser myself), and if you find yourself in a situation where magic does not work (high background count, or snooping spirits) the pistol is a nice backup.

[Mr. Mage]

If you go this route, seriously consider swapping out those baby blues for some chrome as well or instead.

well of course...if you're going to lose an Essence point, may as well use the whole thing rather than just using .6 of it or whatever.... I don't know how much the Bone Densities cost off the top of my head...so it could end up being more than 1 essence loss....

[siel]

Remember stim patches to help with wound modifiers.




As many have said, you want to not spend so many points maxing out for that one die. Instead, you need to spend some of the points to reduce potential penalties, whether they be from vision, wound, or other factors.

It's also best to not draw attention, whether through infiltration skill, invisibility spells, hiding in cover, or just holding a gun to pretend you aren't a mage.

[toolbox]

well of course...if you're going to lose an Essence point, may as well use the whole thing rather than just using .6 of it or whatever.... I don't know how much the Bone Densities cost off the top of my head...so it could end up being more than 1 essence loss....

Right. He specifically mentioned problems with vision penalties and nobody had suggested cybereyes yet, so I thought I'd throw it out there. Let's look up some numbers...

Bone Density costs (rating)x0.3 Essence with standard 'ware. Cybereyes cost (rating+1)x0.1 Essence. You can squeeze rating 2 bone density and rating 4 eyes - for example - into a single Essence point with room to spare (0.85 Essence lost), thanks to the bio/cyber stacking rules. So there's an option, anyway.

[Stahlseele]

Get a Sustaining Focus with improved Invisibility/Silence.
They can't hit what they can't see. Only Radar would be a Problem, but ONE guy coming at you as if knowing where you are despite you being invisible and unhearable is easy enough to knock out.
Also, Stunbolt/Ball or Manabolt/Ball. Considerable Firepower with frigging low drain. Or Chaotic World, Or Orgasm/Orgy. also, Levitation. If you are out of reach, they can't hurt you anymore.
Or if they are out of reach and you drop them, they won't be hurting anybody aside for the unlucky sob standing where they are falling towards.
Make yourself look tuff. obvious Armor, Wrist-Slides for Heavy automatic Pistol or SMG, obvious Armor. Make people not WANT to come close to you. Don't be the easiest Target out there.
Why am i not shooting at the Troll with mountains of Armor and the LMG? Easy. Because i have a peashooter and probably won't be able to hurt him enough to stop him. If i can force him to cover someone else, he is out of my hair. And if i can shoot easier targets, my chances of surviving will rise. So hey, someone squishy . . either a face, a mage or a hacker. 2 of them can summon frigging impossible tu hurt backup, so i better don't take my chance thinking they just want to talk to me. And if i just disable them, i can ask questions later too.
all good reasons to NOT shoot the one who looks as if he will just stroll up to me through my own fire and tell me how to do it right.

[DWC]

Meh, depends on your style....I for one prefer to play the "pure" mage just because it's different from the rest of the tech heads in the 6th world.... I'll leave the shooting to other people...

You don't have to actually use it. You just have to look like you're going to, so that you don't stand out from the crowd.

[Ravor]

Exactly, when the boss shouts, "Geek the fragging Mage first!" and the answer isn't "Which one is the slotting Mage?" then you have already fragged up bad ya' half scan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

A quick fix for lighting modifiers is to use astral sight. You get a -2, but ignore all lighting conditions. Better than the alternative in some cases.

Also, it sounds like you need to get yourself some extra IPs.

But the main thing is, as people already pointed out, not to put yourself in the line of fire.

If I remember correctly, you are not at a -2 for SPELLCASTING while using Astral Sight...

[Ravor]

I seem to remember it being the other way around, but regardless it isn't really that hard for the corp to jack your Astral Vision Mods as well.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I seem to remember it being the other way around, but regardless it isn't really that hard for the corp to jack your Astral Vision Mods as well.

'Tis true

EDIT: and see page 182 (Street Magic), 2nd to Last Paragraph of the Astrral Perception Section... you are not at a penalty for magical actions while astrally perceiving...

[Cthulhudreams]

First up: Mages in combat is a joke. Mages are a soft fleshy vehicle that does three things

A) Tell summoned spirits what to do

B) Cast vital utility spells that the team otherwise cannot replicate

C) Provide counterspelling

None of these activities require getting close up and personal. Stand well back. If there is a fight, point a spirit at it. Don't cast combat spells, you are almost always wasting your time. Insert a F6 spirit into the fight instead.

combat in Cyberrun requires having multiple IP. Remake your character. Get a sustaining focus (F3) and Improved Reflexes (the spell). Make sure you cast the spell before going into combat.

People telling you to use pistols are lying to you. Get the Automatics skill. Automatics covers concealable SMGs through to big assault rifles. Pick up one

If you're still having trouble, switch to possession. Then just possess yourself with a F6 spirit before fighting.

[WyldKnight]

I have yet to see a mundane way of copying stunball. That attack has ended so many fire fights its hilarious.

He's right about the not getting into the fight part though, all you need is line of sight. Automatics is probably one of the best all around skills to pick up like mentioned above and if you know anyone who can make weapons a customized machine pistol made to be more concealable would be worth the cash.

Remember to bind least one spirit, a utility one being the most useful. Those with better skills or powers tend to get used more the one made for combat since you will be out of combat more then in it depending on the GM. Choose whichever fits your style more.