I have Spellcasting at 6, Magic at 6, and yet sometimes last night I was rolling only 5 dice for my spells. I got suckered into Melee combat and could not possibly escape, even wagging a sword in their face I couldn't run away and cast spells from range, so I was stuck with a wound modifier from an unlucky drain (I cast spells for Drain Value 3 or less, even rolling 10 dice you can fail to get 3 hits), vision modifier for low light (my Mage Sight Goggles do nothing!) and a Ranged Combat modifier for casting while melee.

After that it all went downhill, I couldn't hit them at all; I couldn't escape without dying (at least statistically speaking it was highly likely that they'd get their free attack and just catch up to me on their pass and finish me off). There's no incentive for the GM to go for the tank or the bruiser, our rule at the table is... well... my user name. We always geek the Mage first because they are a glass cannon; easily defeated and too deadly not to kill first.

What's everyone else's experience in game, on paper I'm power gamed but I suck in combat.

-"Surge"

BTW I loved the thread on Foci and Astral Space but didn't feel like there was any consensus, having played 3rd edition quite a lot I seem to remember foci being deactivated a prelude to being attacked. In 4E I stroll around with a Force 3 Sustaining Focus for Increased Reflexes so I can get another 2 IP's and waste people with my Mana Bolts, Power Bolts, and Lightning Bolts.

What is your spell list, did you have any spirits (what is your tradition)?

Melee? What are you thinking?-also remember that unlike D&D there are no attacke of opputunity so spells are unaffected by melee combat. That and spells when cast don't have to be that noticable.

Also, you could bind a few spirits for an intant goon squad.

In no circumstance should you ever be in the front lines getting shot at. That is what the troll is for (ok you can use your spirit in that role as well).

PS: I am talking from 4E-but this would apply to earlier eds as well.

my first question is what was causing your dice pools to be cut in half for spells?

buy low light goggles, too

If you had soft maxed your magic at 5 instead of 6 you would have found a lot more use for those points. 1 die is not worth 8 spells, 6 skill levels, and 125,000 nuyen. Cover is always your friend so remember to get behind the biggest thing you can find. A good idea is to not let them know your the mage. You don't need to be out in the open about it, just need line of sight and unlike most games, or unless you took one of the negative qualities, you aren't doing any obvious chanting and hand waving to mark you as a mage. Mana bolt a guy and have your biggest toughest guy do all the chanting as if he is doing it. Worked well in my group.

Also... since when is beeing a mage an excuse for not being loaded with armor and knowing kung-fu? Also: touch attacks...

But really... what took 7 dice of your casting pool? Do you have no edge?

I'd say your first mistake was getting Magic and Spellcasting at 6. You've spent extra points for less return and probably incited your GM to hit your character hard in an attempt to deal with his considerable power. In Shadowrun, everyone hits harder than they can take - it's asymetrical. So with that level of offensive power, you're probably coming up against opposition that has a similar level of offensive power. And neither side can handle what the other can dish out. I'm guessing based on just those two stats that your character is quite optimised for heavy hitting and has some very weak areas.

My advice is to play differently. Your tactics might be okay, but your strategy should be to never get yourself into these situations and to ensure that when you do get into such situations, you hold more cards than your opponent. As you've seen, dice pool modifiers can rack up quickly. Ensure that they're being applied to your opponents not you. Find cover, adjust lighting, get good Infiltration skills and a chamelon suit and stay hidden the whole time your casting spells. Take a portable drill and cast spells through holes in doors, floors and walls. Do anything not to win fights, but to arrange fights that you can win.

All that said, it doesn't sound like your team mates are doing their part. Why, if you're weak in melee, are they leaving you in melee? If you're trying to run away from a fight because you're hurt, why aren't they leaping in to block pursuers. And why are they letting people get in melee with you in the first place? The moment someone pulls a knife on you, the samurai should be pulling an SMG on them. The thing with Shadowrun is, as you've found, once things go South, they can go South very quickly. Even if you're a power-gamer on paper, in Shadowrun you need to back it up with good tactics, cunning and, ideally, treachery.

It might also just be your GM struggling to deal with a Magic 6, Spellcasting 6 cannon. When the big guns are pulled on you, it's tricky to provide a challenging game without drawing the big guns back, engineering melee ambushes, etc. But the answer remains the same: planning, treachery and never, ever fighting fair.

I realise these are all general points, but I feel they are the most valid. On a specific side, I'd recommend making some adjustments so you are not a glass cannon. The Armour spell is good (though bad for Infiltration rolls as the spell is visible), so Deflection is a good alternative that should help you keep alive. A sustaining focus is your friend as you can have a nice boosted Body attribute, or Agility without penalty. If you're trying the Stealth approach, there's no reason why you can't stay invisible and cast spells. And even a Force 3 spirit can give you 3 more dice on Concealment (along with the rest of the party). Also, work out why they know that you're a mage. Do you wear a special hat? If not, and you're being pre-emptively shot at, ask your GM why they're targeting the skinniest, least threatening looking character? Magicians are not exactly common. Mage goggles aren't for low-light (and wylie's comment about getting low-light goggles wont help as you can't cast spells through non-optical vision mods), Mage Goggles are for firing around corners (or troll samurai). Use that! You can even cast spells via mirrors if you want to!

Spirits are always good, though an expensive habit if you try to Bind them.

Also, you say that there's no incentive for the GM to go for the tank or bruiser. That's wrong. If your GM thinks that then he / she isn't being fair. A decent samurai should be laying down an absolute hail of fire, knocking down enemy after enemy. That makes them a serious threat to take out.

So to summarise;
1. Always initiate combat on your own terms.
2. Take protective measures to make your character more durable (this includes care with what Force you cast at)
3. Ensure that your GM is playing fair and isn't just panicked into trying to kill the magical slaughter machine.

I'd add not over-optimising for killing things at the expense of survivability as well, because Shadowrun is very dangerous. But as your character is built and in game, it is probably too late for that.

Hope this helps,

Khadim.

A quick fix for lighting modifiers is to use astral sight. You get a -2, but ignore all lighting conditions. Better than the alternative in some cases.

Also, it sounds like you need to get yourself some extra IPs.

But the main thing is, as people already pointed out, not to put yourself in the line of fire.

Good call on the Astral Sight.

Also, Inline Skates (in Arsenal). Cheap and you can run away from most people who use old-fashioned foot-technology.

I'd like to know your spell list too...there are several spells that can help you to either not be detected or to not be hurt so easily... Invisibility and Armor come to mind, and with a few Sustaining Foci or bound spirits, they don't really hamper your casting ability.

Also, ask your GM how the enemies keep knowing he is a Mage... Spell effects don't have to be flashy, since depending on how you interpret the rules, you only need to concentrate to cast a spell, no verbal incanttions or hand waving needed. And unless the enemy has a Mage as well (or some way of Assensing you), they can't exactly tell who's magic and who isn't right of the bat. If you're worried that your Talismans/Foci might give you away, keep in mind that the can be small enough to be in your pocket and don't even have to look like anything out of the ordinary...they could just be a coin or small everyday object... I suspect that if you are getting ganged up on each time, then the GM is using outsider knowledge and not playing as if the NPCs don't know that you are a mage.

You could also look into CyWare, like Bone Density implants (or whatever they are called). It will make you a bit more resilient, but at the cost of a little essence and magic (which if you have 6 Magic, you can afford to lose one point of it...)

Tote around an assault rifle, works like a charm every time

Hummm and as for how to play, avoid combat at all costs. I don't care if you are rolling 90 dice for your combat spell, never having to roll it at all is the best plan.

There are a number of non-combat spells that can accomplish things that bullets cannot. Invisibility, levitation, illusions, mental affect spells, enemy detection, and much more.

I think every character should have at least one thing they can do to help the group in combat. that being said, I believe every character should have 10 things they can do to accomplish the teams goals without fighting.

First thing you should do is examine your place in the group. If it is a team of high powered streetsams, let them do the heavy lifting, and concentrate on how you can enhance them. If your team is combat light, then examine how you can help the team to avoid the fight, or escape it once it starts.

Meh, depends on your style....I for one prefer to play the "pure" mage just because it's different from the rest of the tech heads in the 6th world.... I'll leave the shooting to other people...

If you go this route, seriously consider swapping out those baby blues for some chrome as well or instead.

The thing about assault rifles is that cops tend to shoot at people that are carrying them.

Truthfully all of the issues you have with spells exist with handguns as well (well mostly anyhow). If you are suffering vision penalties, wound penalties, and god hates you penalties to your spellcasting, odds are that most of those translate one to one for all of your actions. If I cannot use my strongest ability due to penalties, all of my secondary skills are going to be completely hosed.

I do recommend carrying a pistol just for camouflage (I like narcojet or taser myself), and if you find yourself in a situation where magic does not work (high background count, or snooping spirits) the pistol is a nice backup.

well of course...if you're going to lose an Essence point, may as well use the whole thing rather than just using .6 of it or whatever.... I don't know how much the Bone Densities cost off the top of my head...so it could end up being more than 1 essence loss....

Remember stim patches to help with wound modifiers.




As many have said, you want to not spend so many points maxing out for that one die. Instead, you need to spend some of the points to reduce potential penalties, whether they be from vision, wound, or other factors.

It's also best to not draw attention, whether through infiltration skill, invisibility spells, hiding in cover, or just holding a gun to pretend you aren't a mage.

Right. He specifically mentioned problems with vision penalties and nobody had suggested cybereyes yet, so I thought I'd throw it out there. Let's look up some numbers...

Bone Density costs (rating)x0.3 Essence with standard 'ware. Cybereyes cost (rating+1)x0.1 Essence. You can squeeze rating 2 bone density and rating 4 eyes - for example - into a single Essence point with room to spare (0.85 Essence lost), thanks to the bio/cyber stacking rules. So there's an option, anyway.

Get a Sustaining Focus with improved Invisibility/Silence.
They can't hit what they can't see. Only Radar would be a Problem, but ONE guy coming at you as if knowing where you are despite you being invisible and unhearable is easy enough to knock out.
Also, Stunbolt/Ball or Manabolt/Ball. Considerable Firepower with frigging low drain. Or Chaotic World, Or Orgasm/Orgy. also, Levitation. If you are out of reach, they can't hurt you anymore.
Or if they are out of reach and you drop them, they won't be hurting anybody aside for the unlucky sob standing where they are falling towards.
Make yourself look tuff. obvious Armor, Wrist-Slides for Heavy automatic Pistol or SMG, obvious Armor. Make people not WANT to come close to you. Don't be the easiest Target out there.
Why am i not shooting at the Troll with mountains of Armor and the LMG? Easy. Because i have a peashooter and probably won't be able to hurt him enough to stop him. If i can force him to cover someone else, he is out of my hair. And if i can shoot easier targets, my chances of surviving will rise. So hey, someone squishy . . either a face, a mage or a hacker. 2 of them can summon frigging impossible tu hurt backup, so i better don't take my chance thinking they just want to talk to me. And if i just disable them, i can ask questions later too.
all good reasons to NOT shoot the one who looks as if he will just stroll up to me through my own fire and tell me how to do it right.

You don't have to actually use it. You just have to look like you're going to, so that you don't stand out from the crowd.

Exactly, when the boss shouts, "Geek the fragging Mage first!" and the answer isn't "Which one is the slotting Mage?" then you have already fragged up bad ya' half scan.

If I remember correctly, you are not at a -2 for SPELLCASTING while using Astral Sight...

I seem to remember it being the other way around, but regardless it isn't really that hard for the corp to jack your Astral Vision Mods as well.

'Tis true

EDIT: and see page 182 (Street Magic), 2nd to Last Paragraph of the Astrral Perception Section... you are not at a penalty for magical actions while astrally perceiving...

First up: Mages in combat is a joke. Mages are a soft fleshy vehicle that does three things

A) Tell summoned spirits what to do

B) Cast vital utility spells that the team otherwise cannot replicate

C) Provide counterspelling

None of these activities require getting close up and personal. Stand well back. If there is a fight, point a spirit at it. Don't cast combat spells, you are almost always wasting your time. Insert a F6 spirit into the fight instead.

combat in Cyberrun requires having multiple IP. Remake your character. Get a sustaining focus (F3) and Improved Reflexes (the spell). Make sure you cast the spell before going into combat.

People telling you to use pistols are lying to you. Get the Automatics skill. Automatics covers concealable SMGs through to big assault rifles. Pick up one

If you're still having trouble, switch to possession. Then just possess yourself with a F6 spirit before fighting.

I have yet to see a mundane way of copying stunball. That attack has ended so many fire fights its hilarious.

He's right about the not getting into the fight part though, all you need is line of sight. Automatics is probably one of the best all around skills to pick up like mentioned above and if you know anyone who can make weapons a customized machine pistol made to be more concealable would be worth the cash.

Remember to bind least one spirit, a utility one being the most useful. Those with better skills or powers tend to get used more the one made for combat since you will be out of combat more then in it depending on the GM. Choose whichever fits your style more.

Yeah, you throw grenades of tear gas or use narcojet. But yeah I agree you maybe want to have stunball or powerball or something as one of your 8 spells - but it sounds like vision mods up the wazoo and a high threat enviroment. The utility gained by having LOS to the bad guys cast stunball is probably less than just lobbing grenades out from behind a big metal skip and spirits spamming is probably

That brings me to an important note. You only need LOS to your team and the target zone for your utility spells. Do not stand where the bad guys can see you! This is really important! Send spirits out to actually do mano-a-mano action, don't put yourself out their to have extra orifices you don't need added.

But seriously spirits are the key for getting combat power out as a mage. You only have to be tangentially in the area and if you can reliably summon a F6 spirit you can BRING THE PAIN. A F6 spirit is a major threat.

Plus if it gets disrupted you just throw another F6 spirit at them.

I'd also recommend summoning a F3 spirit and having it ready to go all the time. Then if you get surprised you sick the spirit on them while you run the other direction, and spirits tend to have useful abilities.

I think there are two ways to help out your mage. First is by focusing your build during char gen. Second is the tactics. Here is some advice I have learned after having my first two mages basically killed from a combination of bad build and bad tactics.

BUILD
-try to never max out magic or stats, much more BP efficient to just stick a 5 in your necessities.
-focused concentration (and cerebral booster if you are hermetic/logic based drain tradition) helps tremendously
-mentor spirit bonuses are very, very helpful and give good roleplaying options, those +2 bonuses really help
-a little cyberware can go a long way....it may bump you down to 4 magic, but cybereyes to remove vision penalties, skillwires to help round you out with a BP tight build, and a touch of other bio/cyberware can really help out your survivability
-focuses can help boost your power....a power level 2 focus only costs 12 BP to buy and bind, a level three sustain focus to cast increase reflexes into only costs 9 BP to buy and bind.
-don't forget to learn high drain spells with the help of a fetish to resist drain, the +2 bonus really can help out
-edge can really help, I know this applies to all characters but especially to mages to help fight drain, overpower a spell, or stay alive
-do NOT ignore essential skills like dodge, unarmed, etc that give you dice to avoid getting hit
-do NOT ignore body and armor, try to get form fitting armor (see arsenal) and layer for additional protection
-do NOT ignore reflexes.....even if you are a mage, someone will shoot at you and you need to be able to avoid or reduce the damage

TACTICS
-use and abuse astral superiority. Summon spirits, go astral, and then command them to manifest and attack your enemies. Unless they have a mage of their own, you can wash-rinse-repeat this forever or until they find your body. When I first played my mage, I tried to play it D&D style by wading in and blasting away...... needless to say I got my butt handed to me by faster, stronger, and more numerous Sam's. Once I learned to back off and use my characters strengths, I came to really appreciate the power of a magical character. Granted, the right mage build will allow you to wade in and sling spells right away but you definitely need to know what you are doing. When I made my first two mages...they were not constructed very well.

-use and abuse spirit powers. Concealability is amazing if used properly. If you can summon spirits of man, use their innate spell to spam. If your GM is cool with allowing you to use the spirits edge, go wild. Engulf, fear, and other powers really shine. Whenever I play, I keep a list of all my spirit's powers next to me and am always ready to summon the right one to get the job done.

-while cheesy in some people's opinions, stun spells are incredibly drain friendly for the damage, minimize friendly fire effects, and minimize collateral damage generally. While fireballs are flashy, stun spells should probably be more of the bread and butter you use.

-know when to play support. While you could wade into combat, if you know casting that increased reflexes on the slow but tough as nails troll or an increase agility on your sniper is more effective...do it. While each sustained spell may get you a +2 penalty, you could probably sustain two to four spells effectively and just hang back and let the chromed combat monsters do the dirty work....they will thank you for it too.

-Astral scouting can do wonders. If you can afford it, get the astral window spell (if I am getting name right...but it is the one that lets you see past mana barriers on the astral). That way you can look into a place without having to penetrate the barrier and alert the combat mages and bound spirits to your presence.

-Binding spirits is also amazing by letting you keep around big, bad body guards to command. When I first started playing mages I tended to focus more on the spellcasting, now I tend to focus more on binding and summoning as spirits can really get a lot of work done. It only takes a simple action to command and if you have several spirits, you can spend one phase to give two commands and then they go to work until they are done.

Lastly, how you spend your karma can also quickly help your character. Specialize in each of your skills as soon as possible. It gets you bigger spirits and badder spells. If you have a mentor spirit, tack on specialties to enhance the areas you are already good in. So if you have Sun as a mentor, giving you +2 to combat spell and +2 to summon guardian spirits, getting spellcasting specialized in combat spells and summoning specialized on guardian spirits nets you +4 dice on both. Though there is a good argument for versatility and +2 spread out in different areas is also nice. Just depends on your build and character concept.

Anyway, this is just some of the things I have learned in playing a mage. I hope it helps.

Tymeaus Jalynsfein, kay fair enough, I had forgotten that little tidbit.

Tactially? Low end runs: Don't go at all or stay in the truck.

Seriously. Cast invisability on a key ally or 2 set up a nice secure com call connection to know when to stop sustaining the spell and spend some time catching up on your cartoons. If things go absolutly terrible summon a few 4-6 force spirits with simple instructions that "cannot possibaly fail". If needed be close enough for LOS to get set up easily, for some runs this could be as easy as an optical telescope and a tall roof but even from a nearby cafe you can be VERY deadly

If you must go (or the team refuses to pay you nY to get fat(ter)) you have 2 real options - blend in hard, be indistinguisable from the decker or the face. Hang back with a pistol, keep the spells subtle and if you are casting a spell that gets noticed make sure it drops EVERYONE. I advise a business suit.
OR - and I prefer this one
Get decked out in war paint, wear a headdress or wizard hat, perferably built on a helmet of some sort, possibaly bicycle, or biker. Wear a robe, clearly hand made hemp, in stricking colours and patters, but tattered on the ends, be a wizard so hard your own team will be trying to geek you. Wear bizzarly designed shoes and carry a gun a bunny rabbit could shrug off and be unable to use it. Get tattoed right to heck. And buy your new best friend on the team (the one with the most soak dice and intimidate bonus, troll or orc for preferance but the dwarf will do in a pinch) the biggest badassest grenade launcher/ assult rifle/ laser weapon combo you can afford. Go for drinks with him after the run, you'll be buying (you are the mage right? you are loaded right?). Help him out with his personal problems and that nasty problem he has finding enough Nova-coke. Cure that clap he got off the young lady from the street corner etc etc etc... Soon you will have your new best friend looking for ways to keep you out of trouble, like him killing all the bad men who want to hurt you with extreme prejudice.

Then again I've always been a very large fan of the role playing end of the game.
Straight up fight tactics? The touch spells drain are a joke and the +2 dice for just touching is a god send (especially with a specialisation for "touch combat" in unarmed for 2 more karma) stun touch is something like force /2 -2? not much stopping you casting it at force 8-12 a few times over a run.
Why are you in Melee? Something when horribaly wrong did it? Monowhip/ Magic fingers - most of your foes should just run unless they have a rather solid professional rating
Short ranged? tazers get great mileage for minimal outlay on Karma
Long range? Pick a kill or stun spell. Kill or stun them.

And, don't feel bad about overcasting! You have medikits, First Aid skill, and the always-Uber Heal spell available to patch you up. Even a F9 Stunball only has a drain of, oh, what 6P? Lower for stunbolt, if it's just one guy who's specifically bothering you. If you can live through that, and knock everyone, EVERYONE, on their butts, it might just be a good idea. A decent first aid + medkit roll, and/or an application of Heal spell to yourself, and you can be in pretty good health pretty quickly.

Seriously though, limiting yourself to spells with <3 drain value doesn't seem like a good idea, what with all the ways of fixing yourself up quickly. Also, keep in mind, AFAIK, the Heal spell will heal P damage from overcasting, but not S damage from undercasting, while first aid/medkit will do both.

Afraid not. I don't have my books handy, but the Heal spell won't fix drain regardless of cause or type. First Aid/Medkits will, though.

Cain's right about the Heal spell; the erreta clearly states that all magically induced damage by drain be it physical or not cannot be healed via the spell.

However, to keep with "Geek the Mage First"'s problem of being Geeked First, I recommend something simpler; cast a physical mask on yourself (learn the spell if you must) and just go into combat normally. Look all cybered up and when you cast a spell raise an illusionary version of a weapon that might have the same effect. Going to hit an opponent with a flame thrower spell? Pack your persona with a flame thrower and toast the baddies.

If the opposition does have a mage on its side they might not even think to offer counter spelling dice to his buddies.

Just a thought...

Sign--

Wacky

Errata, errata, errata!

<----Hangs head in shame.

Oh well. The rest still applies though: especially if you're a logic tradition, Log+first aid+medkit can give you a nice second chance to soak up some drain.

As everyone else says though, the best way to win combat is to stay out of it! And, at least in SR as opposed to DnD, as long as the opposition isn't assensing you, there's no reason for a mage not to look like a Sammy. You can wear the same armor, hold the same weapons, probably even get essence-free, but real-looking cyberware "falsies". Think of stick-on faux datajacks, etc. If everyone in your campaign world just reflexively shoots at the little un-cybered guy on the off chance he's a mage, well, the simple solution would be to no longer look like the little un-cybered guy. Better yet, if with Illusion spells, the Really Really Big .01 essence Troll just happened to look like the little un-cybered guy...*

If you regularly run into mages assensing your team to figure out who the mage is, then I guess just save your karma for initiation and learn how to disguise that aura of yours...

*And the best part about a faux-datajack? While everyone who sees it is wasting IPs arguing about whether or not a datajack is useful in a world with 'trodes, you can wax 'em all.

in 4A its not as bad of a choice. Still not optimal, but with the increased costs to raise attributes it isn't as big of a hit.

On my current character which is a bit of dice whore I went with 6/6 from the get go for magic and spell casting. Restricted gear power focus for a level 4 power focus and a totem mod gives him 18 dice for combat spells, add in specialization and he throws 20 dice for combat spells. The penalties have to be pretty severe to make slow the spells down.

On the original topic, I still think making sure the GM isn't metagaming is an important one. I mean look at what's going on here. We're talking about them targeting the person who looks the least threatening. What does that mean? Either they're automatically assuming that someone looking less of a cyber-monster is a magician and a super-threat. And in a world where magician shadowrunners are supposedly rare that doesn't seem fair. Also, should they be gambling their lives on a possibility when there's someone standing there throwing bullets at them at super-speed? Or alternately, they're saying "my weapons can't hurt the big troll guy, so lets take out the vulnerable one." WHAT? That's the GM thinking of them as expendable mooks, not how they would think. If there's someone coming toward them that their bullets are just bouncing off, they run! No security guard should be thinking "I might knock a few boxes of physical off this guy before I die so I'll aim at him."

Hey, No Problems... I am still waiting for my Delta Grade Cranial Data Storage device to come in myself...

While I never got the chance to play him, I once made a Mage that carried around a Cyberdeck with him on runs. I figured he'd be scrawny and carrying electronics around, so he'd be the absolute last one any of the security forces thought needed a good shooting.

Thank you everyone for your feedback, here are a few comments:

I did pick up a Force 3 sustaining focus for more IP's. I picked up Bladed weapons not for damage but to keep melee off me with a +1 reach advantage and to help me survive close combat.

I think the biggest mistake was not busting out a Spirit to harass the bad guys in melee while I hid or shot spells, and we did not draw out a map of combat with distances so it was laziness (from both ends of the table) that really got me in trouble. I started the combat with 3 IP's and was sustaining an Improved Invisibility spell but dropped it to absolutely murder what I thought was the only uninjured bad guy left (there are always reinforcements).

The problem from there was that I was unsure between Mana Bolt, Power Bolt, Lightning Bolt and Stun Ball which spell to cast because I wasn't sure about modifiers. What tables are my Spellcasting + Magic tests subject to? Vision? Ranged combat modifiers? What about Indirect spells which specifically state that I don't have to see the target? What about AoE spells? I guess I just need to make my own Power Cards for each of my spells and write out what modifiers they are subject to, since it seems that each of my 4 main combat spells uses completely different rules and tables.

Here I am trying to tout how much I love SR4 and how easy it is to play and I get rolled like its my first run (I've been playing off and on for 10 years). I told the newbie street sam "Just roll Skill + Stat! ... .... ... and look at 5 different modifier tables! And pick from 8 different styles of Burst / Full Auto modes!" We took positioning and strategy completely off the table and 1 combat took forever because we had to check so many tables.

/whining
-"Surge"

ALL spellcasting is subject to optical modifiers, that's why cyber-eyes are good for the mages.
Otherwise, try astral perception, no -2 dice pool modificator for casting spells or other magical stuff, but for everything else.
Direct Combat spells, the Mana-Spells, are subject only to background count and counter spelling or other magical defenses on the target, but only affect what you can see. And the Target defends with Willpower or Charisma or whatever and if they have it counter spelling. if they don't have it, only the attribute applies. That and the low drain is the whole reason why moderate to high force direct combat spells are king.
Indirect Spells are basically grenades with different elemental effects, that's all. Target has to do exactly the same to resist indirect/elemental spells as it would grenades. Also, those can hit anything in the diameter of their force without you needing to see the targets, as long as you can see the spot you want to aim your spell at. I think they don't work with astral perception, because they are more or less physical spells and not mana spells . . but don't count on me being right, i don't like magic OR the 4th System . . but i try to help.

You don't need all four of those spells. Power Bolt and Lightning Bolt are equally effective at taking out drones. Each has certain advantages over the other, but overall it's a wash. Mana Bolt and Stun Ball also are a bit redundant, although the single target vs AoE nature of the spellsmakes them much less so.

Oh well just wanna add my 5 Cent to the toll,

-How come everyone writes that he just has to summon a few Spirits in combat to help him out? Afaik in RAW your only allowed 1 unbound Spirit at all, so there's no way to go crazy and summon X amount of Spirits just because you have the Dice Pool to call them and resist the Drain. Sure u can bound them but then please say so because the amount of Bound Spirits is equal to your Charisma Rating ( a stat that some Hermetic Mages tend to neglect)

-On the First Aid for Drain resist thingie, i hope u don't mean that he has to heal himself up right? Because after let's say 6 Stun drain he would have what a -7 Dice Pool? (-2 for Mage, -2 for Self Healing, -2 Woundmod, -1 for Unclean Enviroment). Even with a decent Logic, Medkit and FirstAid Skill rating that tends to hamper ur chances to get the needed 2+ Successes. Not to mention that the -1 for Enviroment was actually a pretty nice Example

-Hm what else? Ah yeah i'm not flaming anyone just asking how it comes my mage tends to get annoyed with drain damage (sure playing a low-level campaign doesn't really help the mage).

1 Decent spirit is a huge help. Spirits are that bad assed.

2. Healing yourself is never great, but sometimes its the best you can do.
First Aid 4(I'd consider 5 or 6)+2 specialization magicaly active, +6 medkit, + 8 logic. 20 dice -8 for mods=12 dice or 4 boxes on average from 6 stun.

I agree one decent Spirit can really help, but reading the thread there seem to be some different suggestions on the amount of Spirits u can temporarely call for help.

Erm with 4 Success u'll still only heal 3 Boxes of Stun damage and would be out of the combat for 3 Turns.

And i did say decent Logic stats not nearly maxed right? 8 Logic is augemented with Crebral Boosters or a Increase Attribute Spell (sustained in a Heal Focus i guess ). So i would say ur more closely to 9 Dice on average. Giving you 3 Successes and 2 healed boxes of Stun...

Oh well i should stop the nitpicking here before it get's to mathematical...

Lockheed Optic-X: 1700
Searchlight mounted on Optic-X: 1200
Mirror mounted on underside of Optic-X: negligible (ask your GM for exact costs)
LoS from 100 meters around the last corner, 0 penalties for darkness, and inflicting glare modifiers upon your opponent: Priceless.

There are some things can't buy... oh who are we kidding? No there aren't.

Throw away spirits. If you have 3 IPs, you can spend each one summoning a spirit and giving it the order "Go kill those guys" Then you summon the next one. You lose all the other favors from the first, but it still has to finish the first order you gave it. Aim for slightly lower level spirits (4 always seems to work well) so you can shrug off the drain.

I agree with everyone who has said to look like you're not a mage. No armor penalties to spellcasting means you should be wearing the heaviest armor you can (that is appropriate for the mission). Carry around some sort of gun.

No, sorry - you can't. I've never seen anyone interpret it that way. The rules clearly state that you may only have one unbounded spirit summoned at a time. It makes no exception saying that you can release a spirit and have it carry on obeying your instructions.

On a separate issue, summoning even Force 4 spirits again and again is going to get you on the drain. The average drain might only be 1-2 Stun, but it wont be long before you get a 8S drain to resist.

It's a grey area, since it says that a spirit issued a service will continue to do it until it is finished. So if I then summon another one, it technically becomes unbound, and it becomes GM fiat as to whether or not it has to finish the service.

However, you can use throw away style spirits for remote services. Under Remote Services it says that issuing a remote service uses up all of your services, but the spirit is compelled to continue to do the service, and no longer counts as toward your limit of summoned spirits. So if a target is more than (Magic Rating x 100) meters away, you can throw an unending army of spirits at it.

I would rule that since the precedent exists for a spirit being compelled to do your last service even though it is technically unbound (Remote Service), a spirit that becomes unbound because you summon another is still bound to complete the last service you gave it.

No. Sorry, this is still not the case:


The highlighted part confirms that the paragraph is referring to both bound and unbound spirits, that the spirit does not count as released until it has completed its task (or it is dispatched by sunrise / sunset / whatever) and that it continues to count against the normal limits of summoned spirits.

K.

Ahh, I'm working from SR4, since I don't like to buy PDFs.

The entire reason people suggest a logic tradition is because of the cerebral booster. So a 8 logic is assumed under this argument. And while 4 successes would be average, I forgot the threshold of 2 so it would only heal 2 boxes. Still even 2 boxes isn't bad, and you gave a somewhat extreme example. I usually end fights with drain in the 2-3 boxes category. With a 8 logic and just a 4 willpower you roll 12 dice to soak drain damage. You got to be throwing some really huge spells in order to eat 6 drain or totally bootch a drain roll or have some mad bad luck with the spirit resistance check. And if I were strategerizing this even more i suspect i could come with more dice for fairly cheap.