Doctors As Shadowrunners, Viability of such. Options

[Delissa]

Reasons have been covered pretty thoroughly, and you can always go with a combination of reasons. My doc runs under several of the reasons mentioned. Thrill-seeker, looking for fame (she's running in LA), helping the low people, lost license due to unauthorized experimentation and misappropriation of funds. She also learned that megacorps are not the shining bastions of righteousness she was raised to believe.

You don't really need to put more than 3 or 4 points in the Biotech skillgroup to make an effective medic, in my experience. Ducky, my doc mentioned above, does it with a Logic of 5 and a skill of 4, plus a few bonuses from 'ware and supplies.

If you play a doc, I strongly suggest you put points into other skills instead of dropping the 60 BP to make a super-doc. Make yourself irreplaceable by being useful even if your teammates don't get shot up (a highly unlikely situation with some groups, I know). If you want to play up the Doctor angle, there are still all sorts of other skills a Doc would reasonably have. Agility and Unarmed combat are things you want from the word go (slap patches FTW). Knife skill lets you use scalpels as melee combat weapons, and Pistols will let you use Supersquirts and Pain Inducers. Intimidate and the Influence skillgroup are good and make plenty of sense (somebody's gotta talk that troll down when he's thrashing around, after all). chemistry will let you use the items in your medkit to kill or incapacitate an opponent a dozen different ways without using a slap-patch. With Chemistry and Explosives, you can probably walk into a Stuffer Shack and get what you need to make a few nasty things. Docs also make good Hackers and Mages (all use logic-linked skills heavily), and good Faces if you take the Influence skills.

[Pendaric]

To clarify, do you has a doctorate or mediacally skilled? Most combat troops get basic first aid training. Most gangers end up learning how to clean a knife wound with sythohol. Every none magical character in my team has bio tech.
I have had burn out mages being street docs and anphetamean hooked ex surgery intern street doc.

For me orks and trolls make great street docs, because if they dont get that scholarship by selling their soul, its street or nothing.
I have a runner Buddest troll phys ad, who dreams of becoming a doctor. Works night and day at it, but does not have the background education or tech savvy to be a REAL doctor. Runs to get the cash to treat his community, uses his mojo and basic biotech to do the best he can. But hell, even the orc gangers think a troll who does not charge is to stupid to patch them up.

[Cthulhudreams]

Just to point out, if you want to be taken seriously as a doctor in SR, you need to have skills higher than what the best skillwires can produce or you're easily replaced. That means those docotrs with less than a skill of 6(!) are still in training and their skills can easily be slotted by anyone with the wires (or an appropriate drone).

Ironically as the skill table states that a PhD (I.e. a doctorate) is Rating 6, all doctors are skill 6. Except in Australia, where they may be skill 5 if they are new.

Hurrah!

Side note: the SR 'sample skill levels' are entirely retarded upon analysis. If I have a masters in software engineering, I have a software skill group of 5? But becoming a competent shootin guy requires being hard enough to go train with the SAS or other super special forces ninjas.

[Method]

Except in Australia, where they may be skill 5 if they are new.

Out of curiosity, what is unique about Australia's system?

[Cthulhudreams]

In most countries I understand you need to gain a post graduate doctorate to become a board certified doctor. Which is skill 6 in SR

In Australia and some other Commonwealth countries (including I think the UK, not sure) is possible to undertake the equivalent of undergraduate and masters degree to become a board certified doctor. Which is skill 5 in SR.

[BlueMax]

In most countries I understand you need to gain a post graduate doctorate to become a board certified doctor. Which is skill 6 in SR

In Australia and some other Commonwealth countries (including I think the UK, not sure) is possible to undertake the equivalent of undergraduate and masters degree to become a board certified doctor. Which is skill 5 in SR.

Having spent various portions of my life at hospitals, I would say most doctors are actually around the mechanical equivalent of 3-4. Those who maintain an active role in research may be 5-6.

If only there was a mechanical representation for bedside manner...


BlueMax

[Cthulhudreams]

Very possibly, which is my point about the tables (which says that PhD is skill 6, which means that what the hell is the skill level of a specialist?)

[Delissa]

Having spent various portions of my life at hospitals, I would say most doctors are actually around the mechanical equivalent of 3-4. Those who maintain an active role in research may be 5-6.

If only there was a mechanical representation for bedside manner...

I definitely agree on the 3-4. There's a great difference between a doctor and a medical researcher. One tends to make advances in the field, while the other keeps plodding along on someone else's research. One's a technical skill that can be replaced with skillwires, while the other is a knowledge skill.

And there is a mechanical representation for bedside manner. The Influence skillgroup, and also intimidate for those unruly patients that just won't listen to reason.

[nezumi]

I have a player who did this. His character was a combat medic in the corp wars. Returned with a physical deformity and, if memory serves, no SIN for some reason. He ran a clinic to actually help people. He mixed it up between charity work and just work for poor people. Not much of a runner, though. After the party brought back an attacking helicopter, he almost had a fist fight with another character (as more KE troops are en route) about whether to stabilize the survivors or kill them.

[Method]

I would agree that not all doctor's would have a 6. There is a vast difference between a PhD and a M.D. There is also a big difference between doctors that practice community medicine and those in academic medical centers. But it is inaccurate to say that only those that do research would have high skill ratings.

If you ask me (and I'll tell you even if you didn't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) medical skills would break down along the established hierarchy of medicine. A med student would be at a 3, resident 4, chief resident or fellow 5, and attendings (the grizzled old veteran's) at 6. Sub-specialties and research interests would be a specialization. And exceptional doctors (Cushing, Murray, Blalock, Debakey, etc) would be at 7 + a specialization and have things named after them. I would put a trained medic or nurse practitioner in the 3-4 range- easily replaced by skillsofts or autodocs (as would be med students and residents, but we need those to get to the 7+ super docs).

[BlueMax]

When you say Nurse at 3-4, can I assume you not throwing grizzled veteran RN's into that mix?


BlueMax

[Method]

Thats an independent nurse practitioners (APRN, FNP, etc) - they have more training than just an RN. I would say your run of the mill RN is 2-3 (depending on where they work) and a veteran RN might be 4 (maybe even higher).

[Cthulhudreams]

If you follow the skill chart, junior nurses with the relevant degree are skill 4, without the degree would be less.

Assuming you follow the chart obviously.

[Method]

Depends on the skill in question. First Aid (in the basic care of patients sense)? Sure. 4 sounds reasonable. Medicine? Not likely. Of coarse I probably have a different conception of how the Biotech skills work...

In other words I would use neither the skill chart nor thier descriptions of the skills in this case. But that's just me.

[TheOneRonin]

An SF medic (19D) is a 'doctor' in SR, though they don't have a medical license.

18D (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=33

19D is CavScout

[kzt]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

[StealthSigma]

Here's how you play a doctor. Give him some level of psychosis, and an unnatural level of aptitude in demolitions.

Drones? Screw that expensive to replace stuff. Just kidnap people, shoot them full of drugs, implant a few explosives in their body and give them some hypnotic suggestions.

Now you have walking, breathing, thinking bombs. Blow up walls, vehicles, people, you name it! Though the blowing up walls bit make take a couple of martyrs to take down the wall.

[MKX]

Biotech + Chemistry is a fun combination if you're looking for new and interesting ways to make people unconscious or dead which fits in most shadowrun teams to a greater or lesser extent. Plenty of the opposition load up on armour to stop bullets and sharp objects, anti-shock to stop electrical stun attacks, magical defence and the like, but unless they want to spend their lives running around in a chemsuit and gas mask they're pretty much screwed against chem or bio warfare attacks.

[darthmord]

I think a lot of Doctors & Nurses would be better defined by their skill sets rather than the level of one skill.

Thus A nurse or doctor may have a Medicine 4 (Pediatrics +2), Chemistry (Pediatrics +2), Bedside Manner (Pediatrics +2), etc is going to have a diffferent dice pool from a doctor who may be a neurosurgeon.

That academic MD is going to have a different set of skills and values than a General Practioner or Family Medicine MD. They all may have the same Doctor skill level but the supporting skillset would be different which would result in different capabilities.

[nezumi]

The doctor character would have biotech of 6 (this is going off sample characters, as well as the rules for cyberware installation), and four or five maxed out knowledge skills, plus some points in computers and electronics and a few other odds and ends. This is mostly because Shadowrun isn't made to be MedicRun, and so doesn't support the whole slew of skills actually appropriate, so we get a bit of a break.

[raggedhalo]

Ironically as the skill table states that a PhD (I.e. a doctorate) is Rating 6, all doctors are skill 6. Except in Australia, where they may be skill 5 if they are new.

Wrong! Medical doctors rarely, if ever, have a PhD. Those with a PhD will most likely be researchers and thus probably not the folks you want treating you.

The training to become a medical doctor is a postgraduate programme, yes, but it is primarily practically-based rather than academically-based. Having attended medical school I can say this with confidence.

A trained medical professional (like a doctor, for example) will likely have the Medicine skill at 3 or 4. A specialist in Accident & Emergency might have First Aid at the same level. I think it's unlikely that all doctors will have the Biotech group at 3 or 4.

Also, doctors tend to specialise very narrowly. So that Medicine skill of 3 or 4 is actually boosted to 5 or 6 when they're dealing with their area of expertise, be that gynaecology or paediatrics or whatever else.

[Method]

Wrong!

What a strong statement! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

M.D./PhD's may be rare in the UK but they are increasingly more common in the US especially in academic medical centers, which in our system tend to be the *highest* level of care. So that M.D./PhD might very well be the one you want taking care of you- he/she might be the best there is. Again I think there are some big differences between your system and ours (for now).

Otherwise I would agree with the rest of your statements, more or less.

Out of curiosity, what do you practice?

[nezumi]

I would tend to hope that my doctor, who spent 8-10 years studying in university and residency, would be better skilled at his trade than say my auto mechanic, who spent a year or two.

[DWC]

I would tend to hope that my doctor, who spent 8-10 years studying in university and residency, would be better skilled at his trade than say my auto mechanic, who spent a year or two.

I bet to differ. The guy who crawled under my sedan over the weekend has been elbow deep in cars since his was 6 (about thirty years, for reference), restores rusted out hulks as a hobby, and was able to diagnose my problem just by listening to the sound as he drove the car into the service bay. Acura might have only sent him to a quick training course, but he's probably spent far more time diagnosing and repairing automobiles than my doctor has treating patients.

[siel]

This might be where the complimentary knowledge skill comes in handy.

A PhD might not actually have that much experience treating wounds and what not, but he should be knowledgeable enough (various knowledge skills) to have seen most diseases, injury, and other medical conditions. His 'expertise' is more like the various knowledge skills he picked up.

A team medic on shadowrunner would probably treat gun wounds and various cuts and injury better than a PhD can, thanks to his intimacy with the subject matter. He is likely to have more knowledge in gun wounds and what not than the PhD ever will. This should be reflected.

However, when some rare disease strike your shadowrunning team, the team medic wouldn't only be able to offer limited assistance. You would have to find someone very knowledgeable or a specialist in the subject matter.