Wendigo advice please, Trying to make a Wendigo idea work Options

[Ogrebear]

Hullo

I am building a new character for a campaign and was thinking about using the Wendigo option from Runner Companion- partly cos I wanted something different from a character this time round.

Can Wendigo exist in 'normal' society? If I take enough contacts to have a gang on my side, and thus a supply of SINLess snacks when required, plus some cops etc could a Wendigo Adept 'get away' with operating inside society? Pass off the fur as a SURGE effect perhaps?

Since Wendigo are not duel natured can their Infected status still ping if someone astrally looks or assesses them?

Overall is the 100BP worth it for what you get back?

[Machiavelli]

Look alone at the plus on attributes in addition with the abilities they gain and 100 points are ways too cheap. All the infected have a really high-power-BP-ratio. As for the acceptance: you get a bounty of 15 or 20k Nuyen on the head of an Wendigo, only a Nosferatu gives more. So i would say NO to acceptance.^^ But with masking (they are all magicians) and an illusion spell, you can get along. But for real: orks suck and mutated orks suck even more. A common ork stinks and a mutated one stinks like a wet dog with all this fur.^^ Play a Vampire, this is easier AND cooler.^^

[Rasumichin]

Since Wendigo are not duel natured can their Infected status still ping if someone astrally looks or assesses them?

Yes, the Infection is always visible on the astral, even if a specific type of Infected isn't dual natured.
There's no given Threshold for assensing it, but it should be either the same as "classify type of magical being" or "diagnose disease", so 2 or 3 hits on an Assensing test should be enough.
Better load up on Masking as soon as possible.

And Illusion spells, too.
Even though certain jurisdictions grant civil rights to the Infected now, in the case of a wendigo this could just mean that they are allowed to starve while running around broadcasting their status over wifi all the time, constantly being monitored by law enforcement...not what you'd want for a shadowrunner.

Plus, their habit of forming cabals of mindwiped cannibals about to become future snacks could lead to some...issues as far as trustworthines is concerned.
Besides nosferatu, they're probably the most feared Infected around.
Don't rely on screaming "don't shoot, the white fur is just a SURGE effect!" when cops, critter hunters, humanis goons or about anybody else points a gun at you.

I'd handle it this way :
Sit down with the other players and explain your character concept.
Link the wendigo to as many other PCs as possible.
It's hard to trust a man-eating, mind-raping, Awakened, regenerating, super-strong monster, but it may be easier if said monster is your best friend from high school/younger brother/father-in-law or whatever.
Always use either an Illusion spell or wear at least a hazmat suit (not that unusual with all the allergies and air pollution around, right?).
As soon as you have earned enopugh karma, initiate and learn Masking.
This would eliminate at least a huge part of the usual issues.

Or you could go for hiding your status from the other PCs (and probably even the players) as well, if you know that all members of your group prefer a PvP approach.
This could easily work for some time if you're the only Awakened character around and may be an interesting challenge.
If you're all about teamwork and no backstabbing, though, i'd absolutely advise against this.

[Neraph]

But for real: orks suck and mutated orks suck even more. A common ork stinks and a mutated one stinks like a wet dog with all this fur.^^ Play a Vampire, this is easier AND cooler.^^

I think that is simply wrong. Orks are much better than trolls for most roles, and orks are only slightly less viable as dwarves. The upside (pun intended); dwarves are short. Therefore orks are cooler than dwarves, despite dwarves being mechanically superior. And besides, vampires are simply emo.

You must be at least this tall for me to play you.

[Rasumichin]

I think that is simply wrong. Orks are much better than trolls for most roles, and orks are only slightly less viable as dwarves. The upside (pun intended); dwarves are short. Therefore orks are cooler than dwarves, despite dwarves being mechanically superior.

Orks get a bigger BOD and STR bonus, don't suffer the decreased max REA, are faster and cost 5 BP less.
Their decreased CHA and LOG may be a hindrance for some roles, ok.
But i wouldn't say that that, combined with +1 to WIL and Toxin resistance, makes dwarves mechanically superior.
They are simply more versatile, as they can excel at every role, while orks have a stronger physical focus.

But yes, orks are awesome, on that i fully agree.
In fact, i've lost track of the human builds on DS or other SR boards that would have been better off with tusks.

[nezumi]

Wendigos can operate in normal society insofar that they enslave the brains of lesser men and make them do their bidding. One of the SR novels is based around a wendigo leading a magic group and doing some fun stuff with that. So the answer there is 'yes'.

on the flip side, wendigos are hugely overpowered for PCs. Unless the other party members are dragons and horrors, as a GM I would probably shoot down a wendigo.

[Adarael]

I would just like to refute that orks suck. Orks are the shit.

Witness my unassailable logic.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Wendigos can operate in normal society insofar that they enslave the brains of lesser men and make them do their bidding. One of the SR novels is based around a wendigo leading a magic group and doing some fun stuff with that. So the answer there is 'yes'.

Never deal with a dragon, ay?

[CanRay]

Never deal with a dragon, ay?

It's sequal, Choose Your Enemies Carefully, actually.

*Sniff* I love that book. Twist is starting to get all growed up! I loved when they interviewed him for one of the late sourcebooks. Wonder if he's still 'Running in '70?

I know Dodger is missing, and Kham is retired...

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

It's sequal, Choose Your Enemies Carefully, actually.

*Sniff* I love that book. Twist is starting to get all growed up! I loved when they interviewed him for one of the late sourcebooks. Wonder if he's still 'Running in '70?

I know Dodger is missing, and Kham is retired...

Yeah, I meant the Secret of Powers trilogy, Never deal with a dragon was the first name it came to my mind. They are the only shadowrun novels that were translated to portuguese (not that I have any problem speaking english now) and were one of my first RPG novels...
My old shadowrun books are all falling apart now that I'm afraid to read them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Neraph]

on the flip side, wendigos are hugely overpowered for PCs. Unless the other party members are dragons and horrors, as a GM I would probably shoot down a wendigo.

Is that why they have rules to play them, complete with balanced BP costs?

I would just like to refute that orks suck. Orks are the shit.

Witness my unassailable logic.

Congrats for racism! It's the tusks, isn't it? Or the 'k'? Would they be better spelled "Orcs"?

[McAllister]

I'm really not inclined to jump on the "wendigos are overpowered" bandwagon. For one thing, Vampire costs the same, actually give you some bonuses to stats, and 3 IPs! Sure, you miss out on Fear and Influence, and Magicianhood isn't built-in, but Mist Form is nice, and that's 3 IPs we're talking about. No synaptic boosters needed, you can leave the Sustaining Focus at home. 3 IPs, all day.

Of course, Infected qualities like Wendigo and Vampire are more like 150 BPs worth of positives rolled up with 50 BPs worth of negative (Wanted, requires metahuman blood/flesh, Wanted, allergic to sunlight, and Wanted)

EDIT: Oh, right, advice to build one! The fur isn't a biggie, you could either as suggested wear full-body clothing or just shave it or something. Still, living in a nasty part of town (and befriending the guy who you call when you need a new SIN fast) wouldn't hurt at all.

Also, Fear and Influence are neat tricks, and plenty of excuse to invest in a good Magic stat. Maybe buy some average stats with a nice Willpower and Charisma, get a Charisma based tradition and summon some spirits. For meatworld interactions, you can use Influence to avoid fights, Fear to divide and conquer, and your regeneration will get you through most damage. Just invest in Counterspelling (you don't regenerate spell damage) and wear a nice, thick helmet (you don't regenerate CNS damage). Finally, they can never make you check your claws at the door, so a nice Unarmed skill point or two is a good backup.

[CodeBreaker]

Pretend your a Sasquatch and hope that the Public doesn't know the difference! Also throw in some funky sign language and a voice-synth to make all the fun noises Sasquatchs can make and your set!

[Neraph]

I'm really not inclined to jump on the "wendigos are overpowered" bandwagon. For one thing, Vampire costs the same, actually give you some bonuses to stats, and 3 IPs! Sure, you miss out on Fear and Influence, and Magicianhood isn't built-in, but Mist Form is nice, and that's 3 IPs we're talking about. No synaptic boosters needed, you can leave the Sustaining Focus at home. 3 IPs, all day.

No, sir. That's +3 Initiative and +1 IP, for a total of 2 IP. The +3 comes from an increased Reaction and Intuition. Vampires get an additional 2 Reaction and 1 Intuition, which equals an Initiative rating 3 points higher. The asterisk next to initiative points to this text:

* = +1 IP; this is not cumulative with any other form of IP augmentation; only the highest number of IPs apply

To help the OP, I'll fish out my Prince Arthas/Lich King clone...

[McAllister]

Goodness! So the 1 before the equals sign is constant. I thought it was just explaining that the +INI didn't stack with other things. Well, that's a good bit less broken than I'd thought it to be. Thanks.

[Neraph]

Male Nosferatu Mage - Prince Arthas/Lich King Clone:

[ Spoiler ]

Nosferatu (150 BP)

Attributes (80 BP)
Bod - 4
Agi - 2
Rea - 3
Str - 2
Cha - 4
Int - 3
Log - 3
Wil - 4
Edge - 2
Ess - 5
Mag - 4

Qualities (+15 BP)
Magician 15
Restricted Gear 5
Vendetta +5
Enemy +15
Carrier (Ghoul) +5
Carrier (Dzoo-noo-qua) +5
Carrier (Banshee) +5

Skills (130 BP)
Spellcasting 5
Blades (Swords) 5
Dodge (Ranged) 2
Counterspelling (Combat) 4
Astral Combat 3
Assensing 3
Conjuring 3
Perception 2

Spells (15 BP)
Manaball
Manabolt
Frostbolt
Combat Sense
Nutrition

Foci (8 BP)
R4 Power/R4 Weapon Focus

Equipment (28 BP)
Monofilament Sword (R4 Power Focus, R4 Weapon Focus) (Bound)*

4 BP left for other gear and contacts.

*This weapon is not correct, to the best of my knowledge. It counts as a R8 Focus, which is beyond the ability of a starting character to aquire, being a 40R Availability item. At the time I made this character, I thought it worked differently. My character in-game ended up having his power sword destroyed in a building explosion. You can drop it to a R2/R2, get 4 BP back from the binding, and an additional 70,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (14 BP) worth of gear.

EDIT: This character has been used successfully using the method I detail in the link in my signature. I have obtained a Force 8 Ally Spirit with Inhabitation and have gone from "Prince Arthas" to "The Lich King." We're about to retire the campaign (I'm going to remake my Runeblade - a Frostmourne clone [F6 Weapon/F6 Power Stacked Focus Claymore]), and the next campaign will be entirely devoted to destroying this character and the Ghoul army (and other special Infected Generals) he has been raising in a Z-zone.

EDIT 2: I just realized that this post is suppost to be in the Infected thread. Oh well, browse over it for ideas I guess..

[Neraph]

Goodness! So the 1 before the equals sign is constant. I thought it was just explaining that the +INI didn't stack with other things. Well, that's a good bit less broken than I'd thought it to be. Thanks.

It works like this:

Reaction +2
Intuition +1
Initiative +3*

* = +1 IP; this is not cumulative with any other form of IP augmentation; only the highest number of IPs apply

It might be a little easier to understand like this:

Reaction +2
Intuition +1
Initiative +3/N

N = +1 IP; this is not cumulative with any other form of IP augmentation; only the highest number of IPs apply

[Machiavelli]

Congrats for racism! It's the tusks, isn't it? Or the 'k'? Would they be better spelled "Orcs"?

Orcs don´t suck because of their stats, but they definitely suck for the fluff. Minimum lifespan, stupid, ugly, and they stink. Dwarfs have the same strenght and more willpower, no decrease in mental attributes what makes them better mages and they don´t have the problem with racism. They are slower, ok, but when did you have your last sprint-contest? And if you don´t like it, let him surge and give him "celerity".^^

[Stingray]

Hullo

I am building a new character for a campaign and was thinking about using the Wendigo option from Runner Companion- partly cos I wanted something different from a character this time round.

Can Wendigo exist in 'normal' society? If I take enough contacts to have a gang on my side, and thus a supply of SINLess snacks when required, plus some cops etc could a Wendigo Adept 'get away' with operating inside society? Pass off the fur as a SURGE effect perhaps?

Since Wendigo are not duel natured can their Infected status still ping if someone astrally looks or assesses them?

Overall is the 100BP worth it for what you get back?

(IMO) Wendigo is very hard to play..if you want big,strong and playable character: Troll Changeling (W/level 2 SURGE)

[Ogrebear]

Thanks for all the advice!

So Wendigo are possible but somewhat powerful. A good tailor/barber and some cosmetics should cover the worst up in conjunction with a good spell selection of "this is not a Wendigo" mind tricks.

Do they always form cannibal cults though or just the ones discovered so far?

(IMO) Wendigo is very hard to play..if you want big,strong and playable character: Troll Changeling (W/level 2 SURGE)

Stingray- what lev 2 SURGE powers/qualites would you take though? Is there any way apart from Leonization to extend a Ork/characters lifespan?

Male Nosferatu Mage - Prince Arthas/Lich King Clone:

Neraph - I showed your PC to my GM and he's reply was "OMG!" He did like the design though... then told me I could not copy him...

The Secret of Powers trilogy was one of the first Shadowrun fictions I read; I remember enjoying it esp Kham- though I thought Changling was better! Be cool to have a 'where are they now' screamsheet for these characters.

[Stingray]

my Surge 2 level Metagenetic qualities for troll changeling:
(5 BP)Ogre Stomach (-20 % living costs + +2 die to resist in ingested toxins) (Adept,Street Samurai)
(5 BP)Celerity (Running and Walking speed +50 %) (?)
(10 BP)Biocompatability (-10 % essence cost) (Street Samurai)
(10 BP)Quick Healer (+2 die to healing checks) ( Adept,Street Samurai)
(10 BP) Dermal Deposit (+1 Natural Armor) (Adept,Street Samurai)
Personally i would take:Quick Healer,Biocompatability (Cyberware)(i play Street Samurai)
in additional for 5 Bp worth Ogre Stomach.(Changeling can take Metagenetic more than quality gives but must pay them normally,
althought limit of of 35 BP..

[nezumi]

Is that why they have rules to play them, complete with balanced BP costs?

Hey, it's not my fault you play a crazy system.

I can't imagine playing a game where, if you bite someone, he now becomes your mindless thrall, allowing you to make, well, your own secret, magical cabal who gives you all of their cash to spend as you see fit. But hey, if your GM is cool with it, go for it.

[Neraph]

Neraph - I showed your PC to my GM and he's reply was "OMG!" He did like the design though... then told me I could not copy him...

HAHAHAHA! My morning is complete.

Seriously, I'll go draw up a Wendigo build real fast and see if you like it.

[Neraph]

Hey, it's not my fault you play a crazy system.

I can't imagine playing a game where, if you bite someone, he now becomes your mindless thrall, allowing you to make, well, your own secret, magical cabal who gives you all of their cash to spend as you see fit. But hey, if your GM is cool with it, go for it.

Actually, you can't. Unless you're referring to the Influence power, which would take multiple uses on a single target to accomplish.

[Adarael]

Congrats for racism! It's the tusks, isn't it? Or the 'k'? Would they be better spelled "Orcs"?

You confuse me because you have not accepted my unassailably awesome point that Orks Are Better. Obviously you must be playing the game wrong.

Orcs don´t suck because of their stats, but they definitely suck for the fluff. Minimum lifespan, stupid, ugly, and they stink. Dwarfs have the same strenght and more willpower, no decrease in mental attributes what makes them better mages and they don´t have the problem with racism.

Orks Are Better, see my above points.

Also, they can reach the top shelf.