Explosions - Big ones. Options

[MikeKozar]

So I have an unusual situation, and I need some rules advice.

The players in my game were set up to intercept a deal - grab the goods, money, or both, and take out the traitor selling his boss' stuff. The buyer really didn't trust our target, however - so he set the meet to go down in a pyrotechnics factory.

His thinking was that any gunplay would set off an explosion, so the rational opposition would have to try and go melee against his Phys Adept Bodyguard. If the opposition decided to try and double-cross him anyway and the place went up, he had a magical insurance policy that would allow him to survive the blast (Gamemaster Fiat/Homebrew rules) and he had a *lot* of fire insurance on the building. He thought he was holding all the cards.

As always, the players are still holding the Joker.

Predictably enough, the players decided to take their chances and start a gunfight in the fireworks factory. When our last session ended, the next round of gunfire will set the place off (%80 chance and rising). The players are running away, but the bad guys have an initiative pass before the players get to go again. They're going to get caught in the blast.

I'd like to actually roll damage on this, and give the players a chance to survive if they roll well enough - our Troll could theoretically take a frag missile to the chest and come back, so I think it's worth giving him a *chance* to survive. On the other hand, there's a good case for a Darwin award here, so I don't want to just bail them out either.

So, Dumpshock forums: How would you handle a detonating facility? Any suggestions are welcome.

[InfinityzeN]

TPK, along with passing out a printed Darwin award to each player. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[X-Kalibur]

I think they played the wrong joker, what they should have done was set up some explosives to take the place out without even needing to be nearby.

[Bugfoxmaster]

If the players don't want to have to all reroll, I'd suggest having them spend edge and try to survive (the troll seems like he might have a chance at it).

If any significant number of them don't, ask them if they'd like to be saved via hand of god - burning a point of edge, and find them a really Dues Ex Machina way out - getting flung out an open door by the explosion with heavy damage, or getting tossed out of the roof and landing in a nearby river... Or ina mattress factory.

This is (I think) what Hand of God is put in the game FOR... Feel free to contradict me on that, though.
your decision, really.Do YOU want them to survive?

[WyldKnight]

Ok, I know you want to give them a chance and it is completely up to you but they went into what basically is a GIANT BOMB guns a blazin. That's not a darwin award. That good sir is the Darwinian equivalent of the noble prize, the darwinian medal for life achievement. Sure you can give them a chance but also remember they brought this on themselves, at least a couple of them should die as a result if not a TPK.

[Mäx]

If they have efde to burn they can't die, but that ofcource doesn't mean that they will still be playable characters after that explosin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fezig]

In PnP gaming in general, but especially with shadowrun, I have found that players must know their characters can die at any time if they screw up. That being said, the hand of god mechanic exists for a reason. If you allow for it, I'd say let them be blown clear of the blast....but they still ought to take massive damage. Also I'd throw in the fact that whatever security corp has the contract will show up and take them into custody unless of course they have a docwagon contract and can be extracted as part of the service. If extracted, that is their benefit for foresight. Once in custody, they may choose to do a run trying to escape or they may simply choose to roll up new characters.

I'd also be sure to genuinely run the explosion. Pick an arbitrary and logical amount of the explosive, factor in that they will go off in several blasts so not all explosive on site detonate at once, and run your damage. If one survives naturally, it is again their benefit for making that strong of a character. Also be sure to factor the explosives being dulled by going through barriers and on the opposite side of character advantage, be sure to consider the chunky salsa effect.

[Bugfoxmaster]

An interesting idea, taking from Fezig's post, is to run the explosions in combat time - you said the next IP will set the bombs off. Roll damage for some of them, near where the first stuff goes off. Then run a few more IP's, then have a second set of off, and continue that until you feel all the bombs and other pyrotechnics have been used up.

That way, it tests their intelligence (will they RUN, like they probably should?), gives them a way out (unless they massively fail the very first roll...), and is still realistic (bombs rarely go off at once like that - it'd be a chaned reaction, most likely, especially if any of them are fused or timed bombs, with any semblance of impact protection...).

And if they're dumbasses, they'll still explode.

[MikeKozar]

Thanks for the input, guys.

I like the idea of an IP where the blasts are just getting started - it gives the players a justification for being able to sprint away, but still get a facefull of Tactical Error.

At this point, I think I'm going to treat the main detonation as a Frag Missile with a DV of somewhere between 60-90. Using the standard explosives rules, for every 10m of distance the blast will lose 10P of power. Depending on how far they can get from the blast, it might be survivable - the Troll can soak 6 DV without rolling for it, has 14 Body and 14 points on the physical damage track, so if he takes less then 34 points of physical damage from the blast the healer might be able to get to him and get him out.

I'll make sure the other smaller buildings chain react, probably as a DV25-DV35 blast. This will probably not overlap the area the players are running to...unless they continue their winning streak by taking cover behind the shack marked WARNING: Explosives!

As a tertiary effect, they are in SSC/Eastern Washington in August in an agricultural area...there's a real good chance of this triggering a *major* firefighting effort to save the town. Everybody loves being on the news, right?

[Bugfoxmaster]

Oh, boy, your players are going to *love* you. (/sarcasm)
Brilliant idea - a giat media blitz about the fire would just make their days perfect - especially if the media discovered their hand in the possible forest blaze (though it'd serve them right for being morons...)

[Totentanz]

My style of GM'ing is to apply realistic consequences, so my advice is to do just that. Basically, determine the explosion damage and epicenter, as well as any other secondary explosions, and let 'em roll. Might make it more fun by making it dice instead of DV and have them roll all the d6's out. If they burn Edge to survive, that's cool, but the heat from the Star, their Johnson, etc, should be heavy. I mean, who is gonna hire the team that started a firefight in an explosives factory? I guess they might find themselves getting more distraction and over jobs. They might also end up getting scut work because nobody wants to take a risk on them. Your call on that one.

Finally, they might all just get surgery, burn their cred to erase their notoriety, and get the heck out of town.

[Paul]

Instead of TPK, why not wound the crap out of them? Lose a few legs, knock some cyberware out, destroy massive amounts equipment, hideous all over body burns, etc... Make them spend some time on the run, recovering, trying to live through what they did. Add in some attention from Local Law Enforcement (An Explosion that size doesn't go unnoticed), the ATF, maybe some Corporate Security, the FBI, etc... Ramifications for violent crimes can be a bitch.

[Warlordtheft]

Hey, they can spend thedge to survive. Note in arsenal they do have rules for old style explosives,

[Chrysalis]

How about instead of it being an explosives factory it is a fireworks factory.

Have all sorts of dangerous fireworks going off. Have the troll get hit by a large firework which goes off, burning like phosphor. Have the rest incur all sorts of fire related damage. Smoke bombs, big barrels of different coloured gunpowder, etc. An action movie extravaganza.

If you are nice they escape only with burns, if not have them wake up in hospital.

Now, give them the free disadvantage: Enemy (company)

and if they don't escape the other disadvantage: SINNER, which means they lose their SIN disadvantage with something worse.

Maybe this would be a good time to start up a Shadowrun edition of Oz?

[Earlydawn]

Yeah, I like the idea of a fireworks factory coupled with the classic creeping blast movie effect. You could turn the blast sequence into an hour all by itself. The first Max Payne game had a great sequence with a pursuing fire that you could use as inspiration. It would also allow for some pretty creative thinking by players. Hackers could try and get in and trigger fire suppression with AR hacking while high-tailing it out of there, the mage could try and wet down some full crates to slow the spread with magic on his way out.. less situationally-gifted players like the sammie tanks could make the decision to either bolt through an open door or take the four seconds to redline his cyberlimbs and smash the fire bulkhead shut. Don't outright kill him, but change his outcome depending on what he does.

Also, make them all burn edge to survive in the end. It's perfectly acceptable to allow them to survive this in a suitably cinematic way, but you've still got to drive home the idea that it wasn't a smart idea to begin with. Again, for maximum cinematic effect, have them survive in suitable ways after the edge burn. The sammie can simply charge out the front door and survive the subsequent shockwave. The mage can get blown out a third story window and buy an emergency cast of levitation with his point(s), making the plummet survivable. The hacker can burn his edge and have a serendipitious bit of luck, activating a deployable blast bunker in the factory lobby.

In the new Uncharted game for PS3, a trailer shows the main character and his female companion run through a building as it's collapsing. In classic action movie fashion, they make the jump to the neighboring building in the nick of time. Nathan turns around and, with an incredulous chuckling tone, says "We were almost in that!" as the building takes one last shot at bringing them down with it. Get THAT effect. Awesomely funny that the characters survived in half-believable ways, but yet an escape that they probably couldn't have done again if they tried.

[hobgoblin]

well the original post states that its a pyrotechnics factory. to me, that reads as professional scale fireworks...

[Ravor]

Meh, I know that it isn't popular, but personally I'd just have the factory blow and kill them all. Tis the only cure for stupid.

[hobgoblin]

hmm, about about 20 tons of rating 15 foam explosives? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

that should result in a damage rating of 2130, and a blast radius of about 1000 meters (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[W@geMage]

Check out the news media coverage of actual firework factory explosions => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enschede_fireworks_disaster

Damage: A 500-square-metre (600 sq yd) area around the warehouse was destroyed by the blast. Around 400 houses were destroyed, 15 streets incinerated and a total of 1,500 homes were damaged, leaving 1,250 people homeless - essentially obliterating the neighbourhood of Roombeek. Ten thousand residents were evacuated. The damage bill eventually exceeded €1 billion .[3]

Their chance of coming out alive is fairly slim. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[hobgoblin]

makes one wonder when one hear about someone storing illegal fireworks in their garage...

[Doc Byte]

Check out the news media coverage of actual firework factory explosions => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enschede_fireworks_disaster



Their chance of coming out alive is fairly slim. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I remember the ground zero pictures from the news.

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[hobgoblin]

looks like berlin after WW2...

the last image gives a access forbidden btw...

makes one wonder about the barrens...

[StealthSigma]

makes one wonder when one hear about someone storing illegal fireworks in their garage...

Well, it's a factory, not a warehouse. Remember they're actually producing the fireworks there, so they have the raw explosives in far larger quantities.

[Doc Byte]

the last image gives a access forbidden btw...

Should work now. - I hope.

[Summerstorm]

Hm... but your players KNOW that they might set it off? If i was a player i would shoot stuff in there to my hearts content since i would think it is completely safe. But when you are playing 80ies style B-movie action, where everything explodes from a bullet, i hope you told them that it will.

And if it is that playing style.. let them "outrun" the explosion. You know, it sizzle and fires up, small explosionse everywhere. Make some tests which determins how far they got and then BOOM. Nice damage code and they can crawl out of the debris looking like goddamn big heroes *g*. (And a heavily wounded slow guy which has to be rushed to the doc)