Restricted Gear, What makes sense? Options

[StealthSigma]

Basic bioware does not refer to standard-grade ware (the category opposed to alpha, beta and delta ware), but to bioware that is not cultured specifically for the recipient.
If you don't believe me, look up Cyber- And Bioware Grades and Cultured Bioware in the gear section of the BBB.

It's terribly irritating and i would have ignored that leftover from previous editions altogether, but the rules in fact distinguish bioware using two sets of categories : there is basic and cultured bioware and there is standard, alpha, beta and delta bioware simultaniously.
So you can have stuff like bioware that is basic and standard at the same time, but also cultured standard bioware as well as basic delta bioware and so on.

So in fact, the quality explicitly prohibits cultured bioware from receiving the benefits from Type 0 System, but only implicitly limits it to standard grade ware.
It's just awful.
Every time bioware grades and/or Type O are discussed, somebody gets confused by that wording.
It's one of the best examples for poorly edited, ambiguous writing in SR4.

The writing isn't ambiguous, the writing very clearly states that cultured bioware would not qualify under Type-O. The problem is that not everyone may understand the correct meaning of the term "off the rack". What is ambiguous is whether the benefit from Type-O stacks with the benefit from having Delta-grade non-cultured bioware. What also is not clear is whether Alpha, Beta, or Delta-ware would also be treated as Delta-ware. If I have Type-O and Alpha-grade bioware, is my essence cost 80%, 50%, or 40% of the original essence cost? Is my Beta-grade bioware essence cost 70%, 50%, or 35%? Is my delta-grade essence cost 50% or 25%?

Personally, I think that with Type-O standard essence cost should be 50%, Alpha 40%, Beta 35%, and 25% for Delta.
For fun overpowered times, have the essence cost reductions be additive rather than multiplicative. Standards 50%, Alpha 30%, Beta, 20%, Delta 0%.

[Mäx]

What is ambiguous is whether the benefit from Type-O stacks with the benefit from having Delta-grade non-cultured bioware. What also is not clear is whether Alpha, Beta, or Delta-ware would also be treated as Delta-ware. If I have Type-O and Alpha-grade bioware, is my essence cost 80%, 50%, or 40% of the original essence cost? Is my Beta-grade bioware essence cost 70%, 50%, or 35%? Is my delta-grade essence cost 50% or 25%?

Personally, I think that with Type-O standard essence cost should be 50%, Alpha 40%, Beta 35%, and 25% for Delta.
For fun overpowered times, have the essence cost reductions be additive rather than multiplicative. Standards 50%, Alpha 30%, Beta, 20%, Delta 0%.

It's very simple as with that quality standart and alpha grade basic bioware count as deltaware, so no you don't get any benefit from getting alpha grade basic bioware implants essence cost is still 50%.
And as beta grade isn't availebul off-the-rack it doesn't cont as deltaware so you would have to be crazy to get beta grade implants.

[StealthSigma]

It's very simple as with that quality standart and alpha grade basic bioware count as deltaware, so no you don't get any benefit from getting alpha grade basic bioware implants essence cost is still 50%.
And as beta grade isn't availebul off-the-rack it doesn't cont as deltaware so you would have to be crazy to get beta grade implants.

Just because something isn't easily/quickly available doesn't mean it isn't off the rack. The primary requirement for something to be off the rack is that is comes in standard sizes. I haven't read anything that indicates that Beta/Delta bioware is anything beyond "harder to get". That does not mean it isn't a standard size.

Delta-Grade would be an Aston Martin DB5.
Cultured Bioware would be like James Bond's Aston Martin DB5 that Q has tricked out.

[X-Kalibur]

I'm pretty sure they handled this in the SR4A errata. Bio and Cyber have 3 "grades" of upgrades. Alpha, Beta, and Delta. Bioware can then be further broken down by standard or cultured.

Cultured simply means it was grown for your body, it is not ware that can be stuck in anyone else. This means that the cereberal boosters you got? They were vat grown just for you and no one else can use them. Versus, say, a synthacardium, which works perfectly fine in any individual. Both of these pieces of ware can be alpha, beta, or delta.

side note - per RAW, I believe the multipliers are additive, but I'm too lazy to look it up. It's an example concerning cybersuites in augmentation where the math shows it as additive

[Mäx]

Just because something isn't easily/quickly available doesn't mean it isn't off the rack. The primary requirement for something to be off the rack is that is comes in standard sizes. I haven't read anything that indicates that Beta/Delta bioware is anything beyond "harder to get". That does not mean it isn't a standard size.

I'm pretty sure that beta and delta grade ware is custom made for each resicepiant.
And yeas multipliers are addative.

[kzt]

Today's lesson:
Using a 7.62mm round, snipers can shoot nearly silently as long as they're shooting from over 600 meters. A bullet leaves the rifle barrel faster than the speed of sound. The cracking sound a bullet makes is a tiny sonic boom. Even if a target doesn't hear the rifle shot, he will hear the bullet fly by. But the drag created by wind resistance on a 7.62mm round as it travels through the air slows the bullet down to sub-sonic speeds at around 600 meters. So at ranges over 600 meters, the bullet no longer makes that distinct cracking sound. Army Ranger Sniper tells us, "If you're shooting at a target 800 or 1,000 meters out, you could be shooting at that person all day long and they don't even know they are being shot at."

This guy is wrong. I've been pulling targets at 1000 meters and a 1000 yard 7.62mm bullet is still supersonic. For that matter, federal shows their standard target load as running at 1415 f/sec at 1000 yards. You normally don't want the bullet to become subsonic as it tends to significantly degrade accuracy.

[Larme]

Uhhh, since you describe intelligence agencies, and special forces as bland I take it that you think all intelligence agents are desk jockies that mull over data, and all special forces troops are just as bland and unthinking as "grunts" trained to be efficient killers. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Now you personally may not find those interesting, but here's an interesting article for you to read.

There's no question that they're badass, but two points.

1) I have never seen anyone RP an ex military character who was interesting. Maybe it's possible, but the ones I've seen are all some variation on "just a regular guy," with no distinguishing features at all. Maybe that has more to do with RP skill than the archetype, but it seems to me that with how much the military prizes uniformity and discipline, the concept lends itself to boring roleplaying.

2) Ex-military people might not be boring when compared to other regular people, but they can be quite boring considering what kind of incredibly colorful characters can fit into the Shadowrun universe. Shadowrun is an especially colorful world, so anyone who might seem really interesting IRL might still be very drab compared to what you get out of Shadowrun. YMMV on that one, you might play exclusively with people who stick to the "regular person" style of gaming. I just think that Shadowrun can (and was intended to) be so much more than that.


Regardless, my larger point stands. Even if there's nothing wrong at all with the ex-military background, giving that background extra special toys makes everyone want to play it. If your players are aiming to optimize, they'll follow the incentives you lay down and give you a very homogenous team to work with. IMO, the incentives should be kept level. If there's no availability limit, then people can choose whatever background they want and not be punished relative to other backgrounds. If there is an availability limit, the same is true. But when you say that certain backgrounds give you a relaxed availability limit and other backgrounds don't, you're giving a skewed incentive that will influence character backgrounds and lead to a less diverse spread of characters. It's fine to ask characters how they got something, but requiring it to be an integral part of their background just encourages them to powergame the background. "I stole it" should be just as good a reason as "I used to be in the Special Forces," at the very least.

[Larme]

So in fact, the quality explicitly prohibits cultured bioware from receiving the benefits from Type 0 System, but only implicitly limits it to standard grade ware.
It's just awful.
Every time bioware grades and/or Type O are discussed, somebody gets confused by that wording.
It's one of the best examples for poorly edited, ambiguous writing in SR4.

Er, why would it need to expressly limit that? Type O provides no extra benefit for alpha, beta, or delta grade bioware. Whatever the grade of off the rack bioware, it counts as delta. Anyone who installs a higher grade is just crapping money away. There doesn't need to be a rule to forbid that, because the only thing it lets you do is spend money for no reason. Which you can do regardless, such as by starting an in-game Wacky-Waving-Inflatable-Arm-Flailing-Tube-Man collection.

[Ravor]

Rasumichin well personally I'd argue that yeah, magical research has largely kept pace with tech, although considering the price of adept powers I'd say that in some cases tech has outpaced magic.

As for trying to shoehorn in the rules from previous editions, well I just assume that the rules have been retconned because to do otherwise you have to assume that ALL forms of reaction boosting tech and magic have gotten worse over time, and that surely can't be right. As for mundanes getting more and more outmatched as time marches on, yeah, I have no problem with that, although I seriously doubt that the rules will ever cover the situation.