 Burst Fire Pistols, and the runners who love them... |
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 Jan 27 2004, 11:36 PM
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#26
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916  |
Heh. Didn't the Punisher have a geeky sidekick who specialized in customizing gear as necessary?
There's a couple of key distinctions: 1. Building completing custom weapon systems from scratch 2. Tweaking your weapon for relatively minor upgrades 3. Tweaking your weapon for major upgrades If you wanna build your weapon from scratch, knock yourself out. See my reasoning above. It's time consuming and if you have no other demands on your time, can produce some interesting results. Especially if your GM hasn't thoroughly reviewed the CCC guide. :grinbig: I fall into the "minor upgrade" area -- whether that's swapping out smartlinks for lasersights and custom grips. Relatively minor stuff that makes the gun "er". I've never had call for making major upgrades to a weapon which includes things like: installing Gas Vents 4 and so on. That falls in the province of a samurai who lives and breathes weapons. -Siege |
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Jan 28 2004, 01:21 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
as far as custom guns from the CC go...
Heavy pistol, SA/BF, improved conceal 2, improved FCU 4, increased power 1, heavy barrel, recoil comp 1, weight decrease 6, Internal smartlink-2, folding stock, extended clip (50c), All for a total of $4050 and 3.5kg at conceal 7 and RC 3, 10M, 50c. thats about as good as a pistol can get, by the rules in the book. I wonder how long till Ares figures this out and starts manufacturing them? :D |
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Jan 28 2004, 01:47 AM
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#28
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Extended mag w/ 50 rounds?
In a machine pistol? Eek. -Siege |
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Jan 28 2004, 02:05 AM
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#29
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Granted if you want to be a rules lawyer, since it doesn't actually say anything anywhere about concealability modifiers for adding extra ammo capacity. So you just have to use some common sense on the matter.
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Jan 28 2004, 02:22 AM
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#30
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I was just thinking if you're gonna go with the 50 round mag, you might as well step up to the SMG or chopped AR platforms.
Not even trying to rules-lawyer it, but gawddamn...that has to be a massive weapon. You might get better results from using different platforms. -Siege |
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Jan 28 2004, 02:37 AM
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#31
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
SMG ammo bounces off of hardened armor. This big pistol can get through. 13S with a burst with no recoil penalty.
But I'm afraid the grip will probably be too big for my hand. :) |
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Jan 28 2004, 02:45 AM
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#32
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Erk? Anyway, if you look at the Ares Crusader, the weapon has a bullpup layout which means the grip doesn't have to accomodate a massive magazine. Although if the fragging Crusader carries a 40 round mag with a Concealability of 6, go for it. -Siege Edited: I suppose I should explain my "erk" -- your point is right. Disturbing, but absolutely right by canon. |
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Jan 28 2004, 02:50 AM
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#33
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Heavy Pistol has a base damage of 9/10 M whilst a SMG has a lower 6/7 M rating. Which is why pistols will often penetrate hardened armour better than SMG's. |
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Jan 28 2004, 02:57 AM
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#34
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
See my edited response above. You're right, but I repeat my "erk" on general principles. :grinbig: -Siege |
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Jan 28 2004, 03:03 AM
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#35
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Four layers of hardened armour on a vehicle or drone and you need either a shotgun or AV ammunition to scratch the things.
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Jan 28 2004, 05:41 AM
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#36
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The fact that heavy pistols penetrate hardened armor was enough "Erk" to stop me from reading further.
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Jan 29 2004, 01:03 AM
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#37
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 12-July 03 Member No.: 4,912 |
I'm fairly sure EX explosive ammo modifies the power of the round regarding armour.
After all, its a single projectile, rather than power-ups from burst... So that armour four vehicle can be shot by someone using an ares predator and EX-EX... with the low bodies on most vehicles, it'll probably still take moderate damage if the user is fairly skilled. And heavy armour is fairly easy to penetrate, other than the heavy hardened armour, which really does manage to ignore almost everything smaller than a shotgun. |
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Jan 29 2004, 01:14 AM
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#38
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Really? Well since the descripttion of Explosive/EX-Explosive said they were designed to fragment and explode on impact - pretty much the opposite of armour piercing rounds AFAIK - I figured it didn't count against armour.
Edit: Ah, here we go. The description says that 'For attempts to fire through a barrier , use twice the materials normal Barrier Rating as the target number for the attack'. I always just assumed that meant the plus one or two the the waepons power was ignored against armoured vehicles. Anyway, if armoured glass is a rating eight barrier to begin with, rolling a 16 to scatch it would be unlikely. |
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Jan 29 2004, 01:44 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
thats not the worst of it.
Maximum concealibility for guns by those rules: Holdout- 10 Light/machine- 8 Heavy- 7 SMG- 6 Shotgun- 8 (better than heavy pistol) Taser- 7 Sport Rifle- 7 Assault Rifle- 9 (better than light pistol) So i can get an Assault Rifle with conceal 13 under my long coat. sure, thats 1.5 FCU and 10% less range, but its like a heavy pistol in a concealed holster. with full auto. and i can still get a smartlink and RC 5 at that conceal. |
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Feb 2 2004, 03:19 AM
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#40
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Target Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 10-December 03 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Member No.: 5,892 |
Not intended as a bump, but I really like the Sliver. Granted you dont come up against many (any?) unarmored targets, but its still 9M BF gun with a silencer. Against an ave ganger or guard with armor jacket 5/3 thats still "only" 6 points of armor against a 12S on any hit location. Now even a mage with a laser sight and 1 aim action could use this to good effect (+1 tn). On the other hand if the opposition is wearing bigger armor and bone lacing...but still, Its one of my fave guns |
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Feb 2 2004, 04:02 AM
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#41
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I don't think of it as a bump -- and your points are all valid. Still prefer my Savalette though. :grinbig: -Siege |
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Feb 2 2004, 05:33 AM
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#42
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Target Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 10-December 03 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Member No.: 5,892 |
Hehhe....cant recall exactly but not in same pricerange are they? Given a free choice Id choose the same because op more customization options :D |
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Feb 2 2004, 06:15 AM
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#43
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Most people don't like it because of its stats. Burst Fire, Suppressed, and it holds 30 rounds, while being smaller than the Predator, yet using the same ammo type. Its a bit...how do you say in the english language...extrapowered. |
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Feb 2 2004, 02:20 PM
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#44
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Overpowered? I've never had a GM complain about it in game, but then I've never seen any player actually carry it as a weapon of choice. BeWildered: The Sav is roughly 3k, street value. Which is why you buy it at CG and make sure you don't lose it. :grinbig: -Siege Edit: And the Predator doesn't use the same ammo type as the Sliver gun. By definition, the sliver gun uses slivers while the Predator uses standard rounds. |
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Feb 2 2004, 02:59 PM
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#45
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
The AVS uses fletchettes. |
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Feb 2 2004, 03:06 PM
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#46
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Slivers, fletchettes...same difference. :grinbig:
-Siege |
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Feb 2 2004, 03:13 PM
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#47
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I think there is a number of folk that don't like it because it's a bit ... fucked up. Regardless of how powerful it really is. You could fire AVS ammo from any weapon that fires Heavy Pistol ammo, couldn't you? |
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Feb 2 2004, 03:24 PM
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#48
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I'm of the opinion that no, you can't because if you could it would be listed as a special ammo option and not a specific pistol type.
-Siege |
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Feb 2 2004, 04:32 PM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 5,513 |
To the people consider the AVS to be overpowering, what do you consider the Ruger Thunderbolt to be? A Burst fire heavy pistol that suffers no recoil penalty on the first shot and a "special" +4 recoil penalty on the second. And since it's BF only, the base damage is 12S and doesen't suffer the penalties of using flechette ammo against armored targets.
Granted, the Thunderbolt is normally found in the hands of LoneStar personnel, and there are mucho in game social penalties to be dealt with if your runner uses them. One thing you can't say about LoneStar is that they carry crappy pistols because frankly the Thunderbolt pretty much outclasses all of them, burst fire or not. |
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