Harlequin Question Options

[klavis]

I have a question concerning Harlequin, I'm told to use him in an adventure and it seems to assume that the characters have a chance to recognize him just by seeing him, but it really doesn't say how good of a chance or by what way they may know him via a knowledge skill. I've looked around a little but still can't think of any reason why a character may know him by face. I can't find any reference to him being in the public eye for any decent length of time and I have no idea in which spheres of influence I would place him concerning knowledge skills. Anyone have any suggestions for me?

[Wacky]

Two bits to consider; first, how well is Harlequin known in your Shadowrun universe? If not so much or not at all then there'd be no chance for them to know the immortal elf.

If their is knowledge of immortal elves and Harlequin in particular the question becomes not of how well is he perceived but how well does he conceal? Does this Prime Runner use some of the disguise tools that are offered in SR4(a) or does he use magic? The guy's been around quite a bit so it all depends on his own motivations.

Sign--

Wacky

[the_real_elwood]

Unless the characters are some pretty experienced shadowrunners and have some deep contacts, or have otherwise met Harlequin before, they probably shouldn't recognize him. Harlequin has never been a public figure like Ehran, and while Harlequin has had some contact with the shadow community, I think it's safe to assume they've been discreet. If Harlequin wants to meet with the player characters for whatever reason, he'll be able to, and it's not outside of his motivation to explain who he is and what he wants them to do.

[LurkerOutThere]

To add to what Elwood said, the best way to handle it is when Harlequin sets up the meet he makes sure that the fixers or whoever is setting up as intermediaries makes sure his reputation proceeds him. Something as simple as their fixer saying "A guy claiming to be Harlequin wants to meet with you, if he's who he says he is he's a pretty signifigant dude, do your homework and here's what I know."

[klavis]

Thanks, it's kind of what I thought, they wouldn't really know. I'm running knasser's Carnival, which makes use of him and seems to make the assumption that they will know who he is. He is just one of the people traveling at the carnival and the characters are suppose to wake him out of some kind of self loathing mood, and kind of help out the characters. One of the characters in the group did go through survival of the fittest as his background (as this is a fairly new campaign I'm running I didn't let him keep the karma or gear), but even then he would know about dragons, not immortal elves. I'm thinking I might let him figure out who it is, just so some one knows, he did take a while and study the strange elf and all. His character has been around long enough he could have heard or seen something. All this looking up of Harlequin got me kind of thinking about getting a copy of Harlequins Back and then modifying it for 4th edition and running it just so we get the story line. None of us has ever read it, most of my group may have never heard of it actually. I'd have to change some timeline stuff maybe, but hey, once the game starts, the campaign world is mine and all, but then again it's probably more trouble than it's worth

[Cain]

I really have to recommend against getting Harelquin's Back. It's got almost to do with shadowrunning, and surprisingly little to do with Harlequin. The way the rules keep changing is just frustrating to many, as well.

[klavis]

Ya, I probably won't bother getting it, one I'm lazy and two, I know at least one person that would be upset with that kind of run. I'm all for the non-strict shadowruning in shadowrun, but I'm just the GM, and it's kinda hard to play the game by yourself.

Thanks for all your help every one, it helped me make a decision, which is what I needed to do.

[Angelone]

While Harlequin's back is frustrating as hell. Iirc the first Harlequin adventure wasn't bad. Atleast I don't remember wanting to shoot someone in the face afterwards. It's titled Harlequin I believe.

He he I remember the first time I ran into him I thought he was the Joker.

[Kerrang]

While Harlequin's back is frustrating as hell. Iirc the first Harlequin adventure wasn't bad. Atleast I don't remember wanting to shoot someone in the face afterwards. It's titled Harlequin I believe.

He he I remember the first time I ran into him I thought he was the Joker.

Haha!

I ran the original Harlequin mission as GM way back when, and it was loads of fun, but I was actually a player for Harlequins Back and hated it. We actually wanted to shoot one of the other members of our group in the face during the mission, but the GM would not let us.

[Bugfoxmaster]

the original Harlequin run itself wasn't too bad, but they had some things in it that DID make me want to kill someone - namely the railroad plot - they explicitly tell the GM at one point 'if your runners try to do anything, let them roll their dice and come oh-so-close, but FAIL'.
At another point, they say 'since there's no way they'll ever be able to assense the aura, if they do, they will learn nothing'. Going onwards, another similar quote is 'if they try to interfere with the duel, tell them that the two badasses won't appreciate it, and that they shouldn't do that, and that even if they try anything, they'll never be able to affect the guys (being Ehran and Harlequin'. Well, these are paraphrases, but you get it.
The entire module treats the PC's like shit, railroads them along, gives them little to no choice in the final act, besides to watch and wonder why the fuck they had to be there, and overall the action centers on two NPCs doing their thing, having and epic sword duel that the PC's can't interfere in. Fuck them. At least Survival of the Fittest let you make that fucking choice in the end.
Still, I suppose now that I've gotten that particular bit of bile out of my system, the rest of the run (besides the afore-mentioned last act) is reasonable. And a good GM may be able to avoid making the PC's wall hangings. So yeah. And if anyone remembers who I'm talking about, Iggy's awesome.

[Ravor]

From an IC perspective, they have no more chance of knowing who Harlequin is than any other Joe Blow, but the real reason to drop him in an adventure is for the Players to know that they have brushed up against an example of true greatness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif) from an OOC perspective.

Personally I'd just write the IE out of knasser's otherwise wonderful little adventure.

[JTNLANGE]

So yeah. And if anyone remembers who I'm talking about, Iggy's awesome.


" and the crowd goes wild!"

Still quote to this day

Trevor

[knasser]

Thanks, it's kind of what I thought, they wouldn't really know. I'm running knasser's Carnival, which makes use of him and seems to make the assumption that they will know who he is. He is just one of the people traveling at the carnival and the characters are suppose to wake him out of some kind of self loathing mood, and kind of help out the characters. One of the characters in the group did go through survival of the fittest as his background (as this is a fairly new campaign I'm running I didn't let him keep the karma or gear), but even then he would know about dragons, not immortal elves. I'm thinking I might let him figure out who it is, just so some one knows, he did take a while and study the strange elf and all. His character has been around long enough he could have heard or seen something. All this looking up of Harlequin got me kind of thinking about getting a copy of Harlequins Back and then modifying it for 4th edition and running it just so we get the story line. None of us has ever read it, most of my group may have never heard of it actually. I'd have to change some timeline stuff maybe, but hey, once the game starts, the campaign world is mine and all, but then again it's probably more trouble than it's worth

Hi. It's always gratifying to know that someone is running one of my adventures (I have a couple more on the drawing board, but I don't know when I'll complete them).

Harlequin isn't integral to the adventure. You can drop him from it without affecting the plot. He's in there as much as anything because I, as GM, enjoyed putting him there. I can't think of a reason why the PCs would recognize him either - especially as he's just slumming it without his trademark make-up on. That said, if you want to keep him in there in a similar role but have no particular reason why the players would recognize him, that's fine too - just drop other hints that he's more powerful than they might expect. Another GM that ran Carnival had Rebus hire the PCs to "get rid of that damn clown". That gave them a surprisingly direct way of finding out what he was. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) So it's not critical that they know who he is. This can even be their first introduction to the character. I'll say that I do tend to play Harlequin somewhat darker than most of the canon interpretations. He's seen countless wars and lost innumerable people and probably even families over the millenia. I can't see him as someone that rushes about being a hero to every little group of Shadowrunners. Inspiring him to help, rather than just watch events as you or I would watch a good horror movie, could be a big dramatic moment. Or perhaps the PCs can actually think their way out of the situation on their own. It's up to them as players and you as GM to nudge them. All I'd say is layer on the atmosphere for Carnival, as the players need the clues to be prepared.

I'll add as well, that I wanted to break with the arbitrary "Harlequin can do whatever he wants" attitude in the published adventures (non-negotiable GM plot-characters annoy me), so I statted him up more realistically. However, looking back, I underpowered him a bit, so I would perhaps raise his power further.

Also, just to mention that another GM re-worked the Black Magicians with Traditional Witchcraft (also from Street Magic) which worked very well, I thought - little wicker figures, the little string of a bird's entrails drying on a tent-line. Even Rebus' sexual ambiguity ties into him perverting things so that (s)he can follow the normally exclusively female tradition

Anyway, I hope this helps and I really hope the game goes well.

Personally I'd just write the IE out of knasser's otherwise wonderful little adventure.

Ravor - would it mollify your distaste for Immortal Elven Mary Sue's to know that Harlequin is my - extremely frightening - grand villain for my campaign?

Khadim.

[Ravor]

Sorry, my distaste for IEs just runs too deep and too wide. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Seriously though, as far as IE writeups goes, yours has got to be my favorite, percisly because it isn't silly overpowered.

[Stahlseele]

would it mollify your distaste for Immortal Elven Mary Sue's to know that Harlequin is my - extremely frightening - grand villain for my campaign?

Can he be killed with propper equipment and/or planning?
If not, no cookies for you i guess O.o
But i believe to know you to be a better man than that, and because i did not read ravors post up there, yes, it seems he likes it.

[Ravor]

Oh most definately when compared to everyone else's vision of what IEs are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Stahlseele]

IE's should be good at magic, they should be smart, but they should still be frigging tied to racial maximum attributes for example.
Even if they are IMMORTAL Elves, they are still ELVES. They get +2 Charisma and +1 Quick, under SR3 Rules. Nothing else get's changed.
So the Racial Maximum still applies, meaning no more than 9, or with exceptional attribute, 10 Body for example. Same for the Mental Attributes <.<
Everybody and their mom seems to hate him, simply for being him, so his charisma should probably not even be on the racial unaugmented max.
If you have to, give him maxed out stats, yes, but please only maxed out enhanced attributes. You would come up with a 9 in body, strength, intelligence and willpower.
He'd get 11 Quickness, due to runding up in SR3, 12 Charisma. But that should be frigging it. a well placed explosive device going off near him should still at least severely hurt him.
Immoral Elves are anything but unkillable, they can even be wounded by such mundane things like swords. Ehran and Harley duelled once and one lost an ear if i remember correctly!
If they had used Guns, we'd probably have one less IE to account for!

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Immoral Elves are anything but unkillable, they can even be wounded by such mundane things like swords. Ehran and Harley duelled once and one lost an ear if i remember correctly!
If they had used Guns, we'd probably have one less IE to account for!

Spelling mistake or intentional? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Ravor]

You see, I disagree because I seriously doubt that an IE's stats should be anywhere close to maxxed out, with the possible exception of Magic.

[Stahlseele]

Spelling mistake or intentional? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Quite Intentional

You see, I disagree because I seriously doubt that an IE's stats should be anywhere close to maxxed out, with the possible exception of Magic.

I figure being immortal means being bored, so learning and training new stuff would lead to beciming like that sooner or later i think.

[Ravor]

Aye, but I figure that even with enternity to practice most people, IEs included simply don't have what it takes to max out their stats or skills, I see lots of stats and skills at "dabber" levels, but hardly maxxed out. "I've forgotten more than you'll ever know." comes to mind.

[Stahlseele]

*shrugs*
Would work too i guess.
Even with something official.
Consider all Attributes at Raxial Maximum Minus one,
Consider all Skills at Level 3 or 4
Only Exception being Magics.

[Krypter]

I really have to recommend against getting Harelquin's Back. It's got almost to do with shadowrunning, and surprisingly little to do with Harlequin. The way the rules keep changing is just frustrating to many, as well.

It's more of a fantasy D&D romp than a Shadowrun adventure. I love Harlequin but I have no idea how Harlequin's Back got approved for printing. It's interesting in places, but so totally whacked and off-topic that it should have been put into an Earthdawn campaign instead.

[the_real_elwood]

IE's should be good at magic, they should be smart, but they should still be frigging tied to racial maximum attributes for example.
Even if they are IMMORTAL Elves, they are still ELVES. They get +2 Charisma and +1 Quick, under SR3 Rules. Nothing else get's changed.
So the Racial Maximum still applies, meaning no more than 9, or with exceptional attribute, 10 Body for example. Same for the Mental Attributes <.<
Everybody and their mom seems to hate him, simply for being him, so his charisma should probably not even be on the racial unaugmented max.
If you have to, give him maxed out stats, yes, but please only maxed out enhanced attributes. You would come up with a 9 in body, strength, intelligence and willpower.
He'd get 11 Quickness, due to runding up in SR3, 12 Charisma. But that should be frigging it. a well placed explosive device going off near him should still at least severely hurt him.
Immoral Elves are anything but unkillable, they can even be wounded by such mundane things like swords. Ehran and Harley duelled once and one lost an ear if i remember correctly!
If they had used Guns, we'd probably have one less IE to account for!

Yeah, but what kind of contingency spells will an IE like Harlequin have active on him. Plus unique and powerful foci and other such equipment. I mean sure, anything can be killed if you try hard enough, but Harlequin ought to be a little tougher to kill than just getting him to walk in front of a claymore. And on the subject of nigh-unkillable characters, it took a Thor shot to kill Art Dankwalther.

[LurkerOutThere]

It didn't take a thor shot to kill Dankwalther. i don't know why folks get so hung up on that. But when you have an Omega order against you there no point in not using a thor shot if there's not a lot of collateral damage. A strike team could have worked just as well and was likely the follow up, the Thor shot was just the best no warning FRAG YOU fuchi had right at the moment.