Tag eraser, Where is it? Options

[Degausser]

Okay, so the Base book has indicates that you should be tag-erasing yourself all the time. Especially before a run. Get rid of those RFIDs telling every node that pings them about how awesome "Ares Super Breakfast Bars™" are. But, uhhh . . .

IS there a piece of equipment called a "Tag Eraser" in the BBB for 4th ed (I don't play 4a, some stuff I don't like.) I know I could GM caveat and say that it costs X (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) but I wanna know if there are actual rules for it.

[CanadianWolverin...]

Could have sworn I came along one in the Gear section of Fanpro's SR4, haven't read that far in Catalyst's SR4A just yet (skimming over less). I think I found it on the same page as the Jammers, which I was looking at thinking about how to keep guards from giving away a shadowrunner's presense by sounding the alarm when they have a commlink on them, which I assume is standard - especially if they have a biomod on them and a Spider Rigger watching their signals as they go around on patrols, even considering false positives being filtered.

And I would guess it would be up to GM expectations and the desired pace of game if a player needed to declare using a tag eraser all the time. Though it would be interesting to learn that to be real Pro, you would need to custom make everything you can from its base components to avoid a hidden tag, at least from a fluff perspective.

[Dragnar]

It's in the BBB, under "Communications", page 330. That's for SR4A, but IIRC it was listed in the original book as well.

EDIT: And why are you refusing to use lots of good changes because of a few you don't like? Wouldn't it be easier to just not use the ones you disagree with?

[Degausser]

As for why I don't use 4a, some of it is the changes, but I dunno. Maybe I'll take a look at the book again, see what's what. For one thing, the extra drain that mages take seems to make them pretty bad, but I could be misreading the rules there.

[Glyph]

They made that ill-conceived monstrosity an "optional" rule, but SR4A still left a bad taste in my mouth because of all of the lame rules changes it backdoored in. Including the fact that it made Karmagen, previously my favorite method of char-gen, unusable (and still no errata). I have SR4 already, but if they had limited themselves to new art and some clarifications and expansions, I probably would have bought a copy of SR4A, too.

In SR4, the tag eraser is on page 320.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

They made that ill-conceived monstrosity an "optional" rule, but SR4A still left a bad taste in my mouth because of all of the lame rules changes it backdoored in. Including the fact that it made Karmagen, previously my favorite method of char-gen, unusable (and still no errata). I have SR4 already, but if they had limited themselves to new art and some clarifications and expansions, I probably would have bought a copy of SR4A, too.

In SR4, the tag eraser is on page 320.

And yet, Karmagen was greatly overpowered compared to BP Builds... No wonder so many people liked it... You could have your cake and eat it too... No nead for any Hard Decisions... What was there not to like about it? Personally, I am glad to see karmaGen "nerfed"...Here's to hoping it is never errata'd

Keep the Faith

[Glyph]

Karmagen wasn't nerfed. It was put into limbo until there is an errata. Currently, the 375 Karma limit on all Attributes, including special ones, makes it harder to create a viable awakened character or technomancer than it is using build points. My personal experience with karmagen echoes Cain's assertion that players tend to min-max less when they have more points. So what's your problem with other people "having their cake and eating it too"? You don't like something yourself, so you're happy (and publicly gloating) when it gets wrecked? You're kind of being an asshole here.

[TheOOB]

Karma gen is fine except that now it is very harsh to awakened/technomancer characters.

[Glyph]

Yeah, I guess it's a good thing that hardly anyone plays awakened characters.

[Jaid]

Karma gen is fine except that now it is very harsh to awakened/technomancer characters.

so yank the 50% cap on attributes, make it not apply to special attributes.

the only official campaign does not accept karmagen that i know of, so such a simple houserule is not exactly a huge problem to work out.

[McAllister]

so yank the 50% cap on attributes, make it not apply to special attributes.

the only official campaign does not accept karmagen that i know of, so such a simple houserule is not exactly a huge problem to work out.

Seconded! It doesn't apply to special attributes in BPgen, I see no reason not to apply the same in karmagen.

Same issue with freebies for knowledge skills. Makes just as much sense in one system as the other. Methinks sloppiness.

[X-Kalibur]

Seconded! It doesn't apply to special attributes in BPgen, I see no reason not to apply the same in karmagen.

Same issue with freebies for knowledge skills. Makes just as much sense in one system as the other. Methinks sloppiness.

This.

[Starmage21]

the rule in regular SR4 for tag erasers was hard and fast. You turn it on and get it close to any regular RFID and it gets burned out. Any hardened tags and such are immune.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Karmagen wasn't nerfed. It was put into limbo until there is an errata. Currently, the 375 Karma limit on all Attributes, including special ones, makes it harder to create a viable awakened character or technomancer than it is using build points. My personal experience with karmagen echoes Cain's assertion that players tend to min-max less when they have more points. So what's your problem with other people "having their cake and eating it too"? You don't like something yourself, so you're happy (and publicly gloating) when it gets wrecked? You're kind of being an asshole here.

We have had this conversation in the past, and it never gets solved to anyone's satisfaction...

You just don't get it, and I am okay with that... To Each His Own...

Keep the Faith

[ZeroPoint]

This is not a conversation on BP vs Karmagen. If you want to continue your discussion, find one of the already existing threads on this subject.

As Glyph stated before, the Tag eraser is on pg 320 of the original 4th ed core book.

Tag Eraser 6F 150 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Must be brought within 1 centimeter of the tag to erase it (no test required), so its not really a quick process to erase all the tags on your body.
And as previously stated, no effect on security tags.

[Degausser]

This is not a conversation on BP vs Karmagen. If you want to continue your discussion, find one of the already existing threads on this subject.

As Glyph stated before, the Tag eraser is on pg 320 of the original 4th ed core book.

Tag Eraser 6F 150 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Must be brought within 1 centimeter of the tag to erase it (no test required), so its not really a quick process to erase all the tags on your body.
And as previously stated, no effect on security tags.

Wait, 1 CM??!! So, like, how do you erase tags that are INSIDE of you? Like in the story, with the guy who ate a breakfast bar and got caught. Is there a better tag eraser?

[Glyph]

We have had this conversation in the past, and it never gets solved to anyone's satisfaction...

You just don't get it, and I am okay with that... To Each His Own...

It's not hard to "get". You're a roleplaying nazi and a flamebaiting troll. But I'm glad we have someone to fill the aching void in all of our lives now that Creepwood is no longer posting on the forums.

[Khyron]

Wait, 1 CM??!! So, like, how do you erase tags that are INSIDE of you? Like in the story, with the guy who ate a breakfast bar and got caught. Is there a better tag eraser?

You tie a string around the tag eraser and swallow and wait an hour, then pull it back out. Hopefully it'll get close enough to work. Otherwise.. well.. it probably won't fit the other way up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jaid]

Wait, 1 CM??!! So, like, how do you erase tags that are INSIDE of you? Like in the story, with the guy who ate a breakfast bar and got caught. Is there a better tag eraser?

sure, all you gotta do is stuff an EMP grenade down your throat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(warning: may have side effects)

(on a more serious note, you should be able to have nanites that go through your stomach on a seek-and-destroy mission for RFIDs)

[X-Kalibur]

Or, you know, tag erase your candy bars BEFORE you eat them...

[Jaid]

Or, you know, tag erase your candy bars BEFORE you eat them...

alternately, i would argue that restaurants* would likely not put RFIDs into their food, personally. they would get it shipped in and the containers would have RFIDs, perhaps, but the food itself would not.

* and by restaurants, i mean to exclude fast 'food' locations wherein edible substances of some form or another are served in wrappers or dropped into bags.

[MusicMan]

sure, all you gotta do is stuff an EMP grenade down your throat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Shoot yourself with a HERF gun...

[Jaid]

Shoot yourself with a HERF gun...

i had considered that, but i'm not entirely sure how well that would work through a human body. i mean, water would tend to dissipate the beam, would it not? and of course, there's that saying about how the human body is mostly water. then again, that doesn't mean the human body has all the properties of water (at least, last i checked, i tend to maintain a fairly standard form not based on my environment, for one thing)

[Muspellsheimr]

You could have your cake and eat it too...

Why the fuck would I want cake if I could not eat it? Because it looks pretty?

That is easily one of the most ill-conceived sayings there is, & yet people continue to use it all the fucking time.

[CanadianWolverin...]

Why the fuck would I want cake if I could not eat it? Because it looks pretty?

That is easily one of the most ill-conceived sayings there is, & yet people continue to use it all the fucking time.

Think it through, while the cake remains in your possession, say hands or sitting on the table, it still looks like a cake, all pretty and stuff but once you start eating it, all its good looks go away. I know it is a weird saying if you equate "having" to "my stomach is full" but it can make sense if you look at it from like a baker / cake decorator point of view. Ever watch that Cake Boss or whatever it is called show on TLC?