The problem of finding players Options

[Chrysalis]

Greets,

I was reading the Shadowrun chat today and I was thinking about one major problem I have. Where can I find players. At the moment and in the foreseeable future I will be in Libya. Now Libya has the problem that there are few bookshops (maybe 3) and as far as I know no gaming groups.

What about the rest of you? Do you have problems on finding real live people to game with?

Looking back even ten years ago the roleplaying crowd has shrunk. There are now more immersive and better MMOs with immediate gratification of playing than with P&P, which demands lots of time to come up with characters and more importantly time to understand the gaming world. What are your thoughts on the matter?

Can you still find players in your locale and what do you recommend to people looking for gamign groups in foreign countries?

[Evilref]

If, for whatever reason, you can't find anyone in your immediate locale, why not look to run/play games using one of the virtual tabletops out there. Maptool and Fantasygrounds are both great at running Shadowrun with.

[CanadianWolverin...]

My some what non-starter (so far) solution to the problem of finding others who play SR has been to try to make new players out of others. Too bad I seem to have a low charisma stat combined with low social skills - I imagine most others would have a better go of it at starting a SR gaming community locally, especially if they have more friends than I.

I'm going to newbie GM eventually, wish me luck! I think I might be able to convince my sister and my wife to play a game of make believe if I can only get their IRL schedules to match up in terms of free time *shudders*

In my own experience, finding others to play with has been far easier by PC gaming than any other my other platforms for gaming: Board, Card, Console, Recreational aka LARP, etc. Online and (stupid) AI opponents are just much more willing to learn rule sets and have flexible schedules it seems.

[Mister Book]

Well for me, I live in a odd area. Lots of gamers around but all you can find is D&D. The ones that list Shadowrun in their profiles seem to never respond to messages. I've left posts in the local game shops but no bites. I'd love to say its low charisma on my part, but honestly at worst none of the gamers have met me personally.

d20 pretty much has made the gaming community pretty banal. You get people that won't play anything but, heck, I have a whole city that seems to only play it.

I'd be willing to try online gaming, but honestly I don't have a camera and even if I did I would feel pretty lame using it. Never seen one of the virtual tabletops in use, so I can't speak for how well they work.

Like I said in chat, I've collected and read Shadowrun since 1st edition and I've only played in maybe 10 sessions.

[Screaming Eagle]

I regret to advise that as soon as I made a passing announcement I was thinking about running Shadowrun I had 5 players before the end of day. I haven't announced it to the group I otherwise roleplay with cause thats about 3-5 more players I'd have banging on my door and I don't have the time to do writing for 2 games.

I've had some success with PBP gaming but it is SLOW. I've also found instant text and live chats like VENT are workable, if awkward, but maybe thats just me cause in several of the groups I've been with in the past Shadowrun was just a thin excuse to get together for cooking, ranging form gourmet to simple depending on who's turn it was, and wine... or maybe the cooking was the excuse for the Shadowrun... I suppose it would depend on which of us you asked.

[SincereAgape]

I suggest chat based games over Vent of Skype. Although I have never played one, they seem like next logical step to meeting face to face in terms of getting the same type of social interaction.

Text/IM Chat based games work well for small groups of people, say about 1 Gm and 2 PC's.
www.meetupgroup.com is a good place to search for social groups, and they even work internationally. Try that Laurie. You may not find a Shadowrun group, but you maybe able to stumble across a gaming group of some type. Perhaps other foreigners who have similar interests.

[Mister Book]

A Vent based game would be doable.

[Khyron]

The group I'm in uses Skype and two irc channels. one ic and one ooc that we use for dicebot rolls. It works rather well.

[Method]

I think what's most difficult is finding a group that has similar tastes and expectations for the game. Here in Seattle, for example, I've met a number of SR players, but few that have similar takes on the game. There is also a very large role player Meetup.com group, but all the meet ups they arrange are focused on DnD. So there are plenty of people, I've just found it hard to connect with the right ones.

[Chrome Tiger]

Yeah, I have a few of my players that are becoming less available due to WoW 'Raids' and other online gaming activities. Almost to the point where these online activities supersede any RL activities. Very aggravating.

Fortunately, the group that I play with is pretty well grounded in the P&P gaming arena and are versatile on what we play.

[The Dragon Girl]

We RP over IRC, for our game- three rooms, OOC, Dicebot channel, and IC room. We sometimes use Skype for brainstorming, but all of our players were found through an IRC based RP.

[Jhaiisiin]

I've got no good advice for you, unfortunately. I live in Albuquerque, NM, and this place is just full of gamers. Best thing I could think of would be to sit in a coffee shop reading a rulebook and see who comes by to ask about it.

[Red-ROM]

I had a great group in Olympia, Wa. now I live in Va. beach and its slim pickings. I went to a meet up, and was met by a miniature Andy koffman look alike with a gun, and worse than that, he never played shadowrun. I'm in a group that is ok, but I gotta drive an hour out of town to play, and the GM plays so much WOW, that his planning for our game is lackluster at best.

[Krypter]

I've had moderate success finding people with meetup.com and www.penandpapergames.com, but it's always hit-or-miss.

Areas around universities/colleges tend to have high concentrations of gamers and other people with an inordinate amount of free time for gaming activities.

Libya, huh? Short end of the stick, big time.

[Namelessjoe]

I'd 2nd the coffee shop idea ether people would avoid you because your reading a textbook or say hi.... oh and don't forget to smile and make eye contact the standoffish it will scare away and the ones interested it will grab (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Warlordtheft]

I've had moderate success finding people with meetup.com and www.penandpapergames.com, but it's always hit-or-miss.

Areas around universities/colleges tend to have high concentrations of gamers and other people with an inordinate amount of free time for gaming activities.

Libya, huh? Short end of the stick, big time.

My guess is the game is none to popular there, as they got nuked by Isreal and effictively annexed by Egypt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanadianWolverin...]

So I was going over the chat log from Saturday when I noticed something I hadn't before when all the text was rolling by:

[3:31] evilref: Shane/Misterbook - look into virtual tabletops such as maptool, fantasygrounds etc - with voice, maps etc it's pretty close to being around a table together
<snip>
[3:31] shane: Evilref, I have a fortnightly SR game. You must be mixing me up...
<snip>
[3:32] evilref: Yeah, sorry Shane, meant Canadianwolvie, your name was what I read as I typed

Thanks evilref!

Perhaps Virtual Tabletops is what we need. I suppose that is sort of what I am doing with Neverwinter Nights.

So, which Virtual Tabletops have people had the most success with for Shadowrun 4A? I imagine most VTs have a D&D bent to them - too bad their isn't an official SR4A VT, eh?

Heh, something else for me to pester the Smith & Tinker Contact info about I suppose, unless VTs are allowed to be the realm of Catalyst? Speaking of which, anyone else willing to campaign/"bug"/"harass" them with me?

Hmm, I wonder if I should have left a call back number... Well, they have my email, hope that is enough.

[Starmage21]

I've been using a form of virtual table-top for years called OpenRPG.

http://rpgaming.prophpbb.com/
http://www.rpgobjects.com/forum/index.php
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Mayhem_Gaming/index.php?act=idx

[BlueMax]

I think what's most difficult is finding a group that has similar tastes and expectations for the game. Here in Seattle, for example, I've met a number of SR players, but few that have similar takes on the game. There is also a very large role player Meetup.com group, but all the meet ups they arrange are focused on DnD. So there are plenty of people, I've just found it hard to connect with the right ones.

I came to say most of this but for San Fran. Also, its easier to meet D&D because the difference in expectations and ease of integration.

On the other hand, once we got the current group rolling, we have to regulate taking new players. Due to a long lost player returning, we are now at 7 and Shadowrun does not handle 7 well.


BlueMax

[PirateChef]

I'm amused by this, only b/c I am currently running a game that uses maptools and Skype, and initially got the players together by advertising on this very forum. I also have several people interested in playing in my game that cannot b/c I am already crowded (7-8 players).

If you think it's something you'd like to try, post a thread and see what responses you get. Depending on the day /time, I'd be interested in playing.

[pbangarth]

I play in two PbP games here in Dumpshock, with a third one lining up now. I also GM a group using the MapTool virtual tabletop. That seems to work well for our group, though being in different time zones we sometimes have difficulty lining up a game.

I do miss face to face play. There are a few people in Whitecourt, Alberta I just introduced to SR, and when I return there I think I will be able to continue with them. I have lots of fun in the games I am now playing, and yet I still think face to face is the most fun for me. There is just no way the richness of communication can be mimicked with text alone. And we are social animals who like to actually be in each other's company.

Chrysalis, I can only imagine the difficulties you must have where you are now. Hurdles of language, foreignness, gender issues... it must go on and on. I don't know your situation, but colleges/universities are often fertile ground for likeminded people. Is there one nearby?

[StealthSigma]

Well for me, I live in a odd area. Lots of gamers around but all you can find is D&D. The ones that list Shadowrun in their profiles seem to never respond to messages. I've left posts in the local game shops but no bites. I'd love to say its low charisma on my part, but honestly at worst none of the gamers have met me personally.

d20 pretty much has made the gaming community pretty banal. You get people that won't play anything but, heck, I have a whole city that seems to only play it.

I think MMOs have destroyed the college PnP RPer. Those are probably the best people to recruit into PnP games, but when you have games like WoW which are more engaging over a shorter period of time, it makes PnP a tough sell to them.

I'd be willing to try online gaming, but honestly I don't have a camera and even if I did I would feel pretty lame using it. Never seen one of the virtual tabletops in use, so I can't speak for how well they work.

Like I said in chat, I've collected and read Shadowrun since 1st edition and I've only played in maybe 10 sessions.

I've done some online RPGs and I've yet to walk away with a positive taste in my mouth.

Neverwinter Nights: Yes, there are some servers that are RP oriented. I played on one, but they had a mentality that it was supposed to be hard to level through kills, that most xp should be earned via GM rewards. The problem was you only really go GM experience by participating in events, and a lot of times GM events were based around characters that had been around for awhile. So you spent all your time attempting to get buddy buddy with the characters that were high level and had been around for awhile, hoping a GM would stop by and grant you some experience. Of about 6 months of playing that I only ever got to participate in one GM event, and that was only because I was a gnome and the antagonists were drow and apparently loved having gnomish prisoners. In other words, it doesn't work unless you're there from the start.

Online Via IRC Chat: Similar, but not exactly the same as my NWN experience. The problem was that the GMs did not do any plot stuff frequently, so it mostly ended up being a bunch of people sitting around and talking in character. The first one sucked because there was a lot of people who were established, and I was playing a new character. The second one was better, since I was starting a new RPG. Both of the games in this case were V:tM.

Online Via Message Boards: The worst of all worlds. Thank god it never reached combat. It makes non-combat scenes take forever. Smart in concept, but terrible in execution.

In the end, I think we PnP RPers are our own worst enemy. Tthe PnP systems (3 that I've had a lot of exposure to) I've played penalize new players through one of three methods; levels, phat lewts, or politics.

In theory, D&D should be the most equitable between old and new players. A GM who has a new PC start at party level will have a new PC that should be on par, assuming the GM followed all the charts on experience and phat lewts. Chance are the GM actually over-awarded lewt and may have even awarded from really uber-lewt, so the new PC won't be as equitable as the existing PCs.

The vampire games I think are the worst. Sure they have a similar character system as SR4, but in what I feel is an appropriately ran vampire game, the game gets focused more on vampire politics rather than combat or other activities which are character sheet driven. It's the politics that kills new players. If I've gotten buddy buddy with the Prince and became his Sheriff, and the other players are part of the Primogen council, a new player is seriously disadvantaged. That's a bit of a severe example, so let's look at another one. My PC is in good standing with the Prince and the Primogen council member for his clan, the same can be said for most of the other PCs, though some may not be in as high regard with the Prince. A new player comes into the game and has no standing with any NPC. They're still disadvantaged and can be the scapegoat for other PCs.

I think Shadowrun, at least 4th edition, ends up being the most equitable between new and existing players. From what I can tell, there are two factors that make new players on par with existing characters. The first is that due to the nature of character creation, a new character can be on par with existing characters, even without the GM granting the new player some karma to bring them up to level with the other PCs. New PCs also have access to enough equipment to put them on par as well. The existing PCs will really only have an advantage in two major areas, contacts and advanced equipment. Neither of these feels like it would give a huge advantage to the existing players.

I was reading the Shadowrun chat today and I was thinking about one major problem I have. Where can I find players. At the moment and in the foreseeable future I will be in Libya. Now Libya has the problem that there are few bookshops (maybe 3) and as far as I know no gaming groups.

I think you will have a very hard, if not impossible time finding face to face players in Libya. Libya is a Muslim nation and the vast majority are Sunni, which tend to follow Shariah Law. Basically, I wouldn't expect welcoming arms from any Muslim Shadowrun players. Your entire pool of face to face players will likely be less than 200,000 across the country.