LOOT THE BODY! Options

[Legs]

First off, let me say that I am totally for having players who try to make money on their own and who are very proactive about having other "business"...

But what do you do when you're players (or in my case ONE player out of the group) has this Dungeons and Dragons "loot the body" mentality. Anytime they kill someone, he rushes over to loot the body. And I'm not just talking about grabbing a gun or anything like that...no, he takes ANYTHING he can get...commlinks are a big one. Then he wipes them and sells them.

Now, I know I can make it so he doesn't have time to loot the bodies, but that never seems realistic with the situations that have come up. So far it's been in deep areas of the barrens where no cops are going to show up and where the opposition is dead or gone.

Anyone else havet his problem? It's just something I find totally annoying.

[Grinder]

Did you talk to the player and tell him that it's annoying?

[Kerrang]

I don't see a problem with it myself. Even though my current group is about half new players who had not played much other than D&D, they don't typically loot the bodies, other than grabbing the occasional dropped weapon. Previous groups I have GM'd did loot just about everything as long as they had time, and it never really bothered me. I also would not have a problem with the group looting the entire body, as in picking up the body, removing the valuables, and delivering the corpse to organ-leggers. They picked up a Tanamous contact a few sessions back, and I kind of expected this to start happening, but no one has thought of it yet.

[klavis]

I guess it can be annoying, but really it seems realistic. At least the player hasn't started taking the body and start cutting it up and selling the cyberwear. It's totally realistic for the game and a way for players to make money.

[Chrysalis]

Being on a schedule gives you enough time to loot. What about encumberance? Who are they going to sell all this stuff to?

My idea is that allow them to loot. But have them spend more time picking over corpses, which means windows of not getting caught get smaller. They get minuses for carrying around stuff. Their fence won't take any of the stuff, but says you can get a blanket and go on a Saturday to sell your stuff at the crime mall.

Usually 2 hours of mind numbing waiting, selling maybe one item for half the price they wanted to sell it for, tells them that this may not be for them. A guy comes around and does not talk to them at all, but writes down all the serial numbers of the equipment, he does this for all the the other stands (He's an Ares informant who gets 500 nuyen for every five stolen items he can track and trace).

It's the principle of a kid opening up a lemonade stand. Supply them with all the lemons (at cost) and have them realise that the money does not come flooding in, you have to work hard for it, like any other real business. If they persist, reward them, but most players are lazy and when they realize there is no such thing as an easy nuyen they stop.

[ZeroPoint]

Yeah, I can see how that can be an issue that detracts from the setting a bit. Especially if your player is doing it when he has something else he should be doing. On the other hand, if a player has the time and opportunity to snag some useful gear and its in line with the characters ideals, then they should be doing so. Maybe not stripping the security team of their armor/clothing...but grabbing whatever is easy to grab and carry. Enforce realism with carrying stuff. If they don't have a bag or something to carry it in, then they are holding it. Which means they have one less hand free. If they do have a bag, then they have to be dropping it in order to do anything, or they wear it on their backs where it would be hindering them in almost every physical and combat skill they perform. And a lot of things are hot. Especially comlinks and guns, or really anything that has a device rating or is likely to be loaded with RFID tags. If he doesn't take the time to turn them off, you know building security is gonna be tracing that node moving out and around the building and all the way back to the safehose. If he has to erase 20 RFID tags every time he picks up an item, he'll be taking a lot longer looting...now the security team is gonna be getting a lot closer before locating and surrounding the team while your looter is still packing his bag.

[Blade]

It came up a few times on the boards. On the top of my head, the answers (not necessarily mine) are:

* It doesn't really matter. They get a few more nuyens, that's all.
* If you pay your PC enough, they wouldn't need to do it.
* Loot can be heavy, and you don't want to be slowed down by something heavy.
* Resale value is low, making it not worth it most of the time.
* Some gear might have security measures that have to be worked around before selling them (or will lower the sale price) and that might be used to track down the PC
* Some people don't want to deal with "hot" stolen gear.

[Bignaffer]

I dont see any problem with it within reason. when you think about it there is a whole lot of easy money to be made. most shadowrunners do it for the money and if you are going to do a job for say 10-20k why not take a few seconds to pick up a guards gun and comlink? that stuff is expensive, if you end up having to kill a couple guards and they have even mediocre stuff you could potentially double your income.

now that being said i would make sure to keep on them about the details. carrying weight, encumberance, fencing the goods, possibly earning a reputation...there are lots of ways to make them earn it.

[Dakka Dakka]

A couple of ways to get rid of that behavior, if this is your intention:
1. Pay them more. If the players need the couple of ¥ for a used commlink, they're underpaid.
2. If they just doing it because they can, have the environment react to it, just like chrysalis already wrote.
3. Did they really remove all the stealth tags on the gear? Maybe the corp they just hit would try to locate them via the tags.
4. If the looting becomes common practice and it is common knowledge that a couple of runners steal everything that isn't nailed down, someone may start rigging their employees commlinks with explosives special dyes etc.
5. Have a Johnson tell them that it is bad style to steal the personal belongings of the employees.

But first talk with your players and tell them that this is ruining your fun and ask them why hey think they must do it.

[eidolon]

Our group has a couple of guys with this problem, too. It bugs the living shit out of me, but hey, players with a little bit too much of a D&D mentality are better than no players at all. At least they tend to stick to weapons and the occasional armored vest.

And yeah, it kinda makes a certain type of sense. I know. If you're playing gangers that make little to no money, it makes all kinds of sense to try to sell that spare AK-97. But that's not the game we're playing. We get paid pretty well, and we take pretty "good" jobs so far. So when it happens in this game, it pulls you out of Shadowrun and just makes you groan.

Another time the D&D mentality shows up is in interactions with NPCs. I told the GM in the first session that I was going to call this disgruntled prison guard and bribe him for information and one of these players laughed and said "you're WHAT?" as though the only appropriate thing to do with NPCs is to swing swords at them.

They'll come around, I suppose. I'm not GMing right now, but I intend to work on stuff like this when it does come around to me. I try to be a better example as a player so they'll see some new approaches and stuff, but it's easier as the GM.

[Sponge]

There's always the problem of "who knows where that gun's been." Maybe they looted some spiffy equipment, but what did the guy who had it do with it before running into the PCs? And now the PCs have their fingerprints all over it? Could lead to some trouble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Marwynn]

I wouldn't have a problem with it. Deep down, most shadowrunners are in it for the money. That dead guy that tried to kill you just a few seconds ago isn't going to be needing that Sony Emperor now is he?

Just make sure they run a Tag Eraser over the stuff, to deal with the normal RFIDs. Embed a few stealth or security RFIDs in the gear too. Or some anti-theft devices. It would suck bigtime to be nailed for selling stolen goods after pulling off a major run.

If it's just a mentality of greed then cure him of it. Make the targets tougher, make them smarter too. Have them also be looked down on by the rather tight-knight shadowrun community. Sure, taking a few credsticks is a good idea. I take them from stunned guards, hey those bullets cost me money too.

Guns are a no-no, if they're corp issue they're corp-trackable. Get the ammo and move on.

[Screaming Eagle]

Well if the money he's making is the problem remember he's only getting a slim fraction of the book value. - Stolen, market is flooded (most low-end comlinks will be "common as dirt" and you just won't find a buyer), etc, etc.

If its the time it takes there are lots of ways around this - I had a Runner in love with stealing cars, not really for profit but why buy a car when the streets are littered with them. Well 1 in 1000 people are awakened and I haven't seen the hacker yet that could deal with a watcher spirit car alarm (I'm sure there are some, just not in my games). One "signifigant insisdent" involving a (relativly low-end) possesion tradition mage later and the team was VERY leary of unnessasary casual crime while "out on business".
For stealing things from the fallen - stealth or security tags make a great gift for your runners, gangers aren't scary, gangs are. People personalise things. Everything from initials engraved on their off the shelf com to angry free Sprites that were calling it home till just now.

But really stealing from the dead deep in the barrens? You don't feel its approprate to drop a metric ton of bricks on them just for BEING in the barrens? Ghouls are one of my fav deterents for sticking around where there is fresh meat. No one wants to be anywhere near strain 3. No one. If its just gangers and punks they are taking down they will quickly get a rep and they will be avoided by such people in general unless the team is SERIOUSLY out numbered.

[Orcus Blackweath...]

I think it's funny that you have a problem with looting, but not gacking the stiff in the first place. Let's face it, what is petty theft compared to murder?

Your problem seems to be spending time on it. Ask the player point blank, do you wish to always loot light valuables from every kill?

If he says yes, then in the future always assume that he is doing this, and give him an additional nuyen value at the end of the run. If he never says anything else about it, it becomes an adventure hook. At some point in the future, someone will track him down because of this behaviour. You can try to punish the group for role playing in a way you don't like, or you can use it for your own advantage. I suggest the latter.

[StealthSigma]

If (Object.Status = 'Rare' OR Object.Availability = 'Hard to Acquire' OR Object.ImmediateValue = 'Can be used in this mission') Then
Object.Location = My.Character.Inventory
Else
Object.Abandon = True
End If

[ZeroPoint]

If (Object.Status = 'Rare' OR Object.Availability = 'Hard to Acquire' OR Object.ImmediateValue = 'Can be used in this mission') Then
Object.Location = My.Character.Inventory
Else
Object.Abandon = True
End If

That made me laugh. Very true. And now I'm really wishing you had picked up that gun for me instead of abandoning it to WP grenades. Oh well. I guess it wasn't really rare/hard to acquire/of immediate value...just wanted it.

[Marwynn]

Also, keep in mind that what he's doing is creating a followable trail. Some runners actually loot and steal and so forth just so they can create false trails afterwards. That's when you know you'll have to kill some poor shmucks.

And yeah, deep in the barrens = stumbling onto a gang fighting off another gang that's under assault by ghouls. Lots of ghouls.

[LurkerOutThere]

I can't really complain, I play a character who keeps a collection of "drop guns" guns he's claimed from his fallen enemies or others so if he suspects a situation is going to be bad. He'll take a drop gun instead of his heavily customized expensive personal weapon. Because he can always just throw it in the gutter later with no compunctions.

I think the core problem is one of perception, in shadowrun the characters are generally criminals doing things for the money. It seems totally in character for them to loot anythign they have time for that isn't nailed down/won't compromise the mission. That's the thing, A j has no place telling Shadowrunner A that he shouldn't loot bob the Security guards gun unless that's specifically laid out as part of the mission parameters. Where Johnson A has room to complain is when the PC's are vandalizing the target area to the point it will bring heat or conflict with his own goals.

The way to controll this on the GM side is to remember that hot gear is only going to bring a fraction of it's actual book value unless it's hideosly hard to aquire. This makes most personal effects like comlinks, guns, body armor very very low value. 10-20 percent of book at best. The way i've handled it with players in the past is a scene ala the pawn shop scene in the crow. The runners bring a bag of stolen goods to their fixers or junk dealer. The junk dealer takes a look at the contents of the bag (a casual one at that) and makes the PC's a pathetically low offer, a few K at absolute best. The PC's can either take the offer, knowing their being ripped off but knowing that actually tr5ying to sell each indivdual item of hot gear will be a painfull and annoying endeaver that will cut into hooker and novacoke time. Or they can take the money offered and skip on their way.

[Ravor]

Personally I've found that looting is fairly self policing if you apply common sense in asking how and where is he carrying everything? But if the character has the downtime and skills to sell it, then let him, it is likely to be pocketchange anyways and if he isn't careful the rest of the team will simply leave him behind because they aren't dumb enough to forget that they only stay alive if they can stay ahead of corpsec.

*EDIT*

LurkerOutThere pretty much summed it up for me.

[CanadianWolverin...]

Reading this thread, I now am getting an idea for a Shadowrun character who loots like crazy for the components. I'm imagining someone who makes specialty gear for his fellow runners and uses the parts from all their stolen goods. Hmm, like some sort of genius barrens grease monkey weaponsmith. Hmm, I wonder what kinds of improvised explosives you could make from the contents of looted bodies or the bodies themselves? Hmm, and surely there would be street docs who could possibly make use of the organs...

The last character I made had a strong aversion to looting bodies because he didn't want to be tracked. *shrug* And why loot when you could find a Contact who could put in a custom order for better equipment from the untraceable nuyen you earned from the Mr. J? The reason that body is dead is because their skills and equipment weren't good enough to keep them in the land of the living, if you think about it.

[StealthSigma]

That made me laugh. Very true. And now I'm really wishing you had picked up that gun for me instead of abandoning it to WP grenades. Oh well. I guess it wasn't really rare/hard to acquire/of immediate value...just wanted it.

There may be times outside of that condition where I pick things up, but it's going to be times where I know I have a lull or aren't on an time schedule so that I can case the bodies, or if it's a highly desirable item regardless of availability or rarity, but those will be the exceptions that prove the rule.

[Deathmaster35]

So a bunch of you here would probably frown on what my team does, we take a millimeter wave scanner with us on runs. When we geek someone, we scan the body for 'ware and if we have time chop it out.. we would probably havest organs too, if we had a contact to buy them and the correct gear to carry them off safely.

As pointed out, shadowrunners are criminals that are paid to kill people. Not ever shadowrunner is going to have the stomache to chop up their victems and remove the valuables, but for those that will it is a good bit of cash.


as for selling the goods, there are rules for that already presented in the book. You get 30% the base value for selling the junk, so not much on most stuff. When you are on a run that only pays 10k though and you can grab and sell a set of wired 2 you just almost doubled your income! (and for those wondering, we took the body with us and removed it outside the site and dumped the body in the barrens)

On several runs we have increased our base pay by a significant amount from loot. Our team has two orks that are more than strong enough to carry some stray gear and the occational body

[Ravor]

No, I have no problem whatsoever with what you've described provided of course that you limit yourself to "when the time is right" AND if the characters actually have the proper skills to cut out the cyber without damaging the goods. I may or may not disagree on how often a Runner should have the spare time necessary for semi-delicate surgery however...

[Sponge]

As pointed out, shadowrunners are criminals that are paid to kill people.

Shadowrunners are paid to achieve the mission goals, which can sometimes be to kill someone, but not always (rarity of the occurrence depending on the group).

[Orcus Blackweath...]

So a bunch of you here would probably frown on what my team does, we take a millimeter wave scanner with us on runs. When we geek someone, we scan the body for 'ware and if we have time chop it out.. we would probably havest organs too, if we had a contact to buy them and the correct gear to carry them off safely.

As pointed out, shadowrunners are criminals that are paid to kill people. Not ever shadowrunner is going to have the stomache to chop up their victems and remove the valuables, but for those that will it is a good bit of cash.


as for selling the goods, there are rules for that already presented in the book. You get 30% the base value for selling the junk, so not much on most stuff. When you are on a run that only pays 10k though and you can grab and sell a set of wired 2 you just almost doubled your income! (and for those wondering, we took the body with us and removed it outside the site and dumped the body in the barrens)

On several runs we have increased our base pay by a significant amount from loot. Our team has two orks that are more than strong enough to carry some stray gear and the occational body

I have no problem with this at all. Rules are there, and obviously your group does not have an issue with this style of game. It just appears to me that your group is taking fairly easy runs. That you have time to sit around for minutes at a time after killing someone without repercussions, and that after quite a bit of time (I am assuming), with an established Modus Operandi, and have not been killed by any of your victims families/corporation, is nothing short of amazing.

As an example... There are only so many places in any given city where you can unload 4 internal commlinks, 4 sets of cybereyes, a purple cyberleg with the initial FU2 on it, and etc...

A decent data search by someone with knowledge of these places will pick up these sales in short order. Next time you go to make a sale you will be met by an HRT team. At least that is how our game tends to work. Perhaps your GM is more fault tolerant.