3rd Ed Necromancer... How?, Which way should I go? Options

[Exocet]

Hello, I've been thinking of making a necromancer (as in, some guy who "animates/resurrects" dead guys to use them as brainless puppets, but with an overall hermetic flavour) but I still haven't found the most appropriate way to manage it... I'm trying to make it without introducing any new rules to the system, and so far I've only found 3 ways of doing it:

A) A limited version of the "Animate" spell (MITS, might have another name since my book is in Spanish), obviously limited to dead bodies. As far as I know nothing should prevent me from doing this, since the corpses are obviously not alive; the guys would have no autonomy and couldn't be banished since they aren't spirits (although the spell might be dispelled). But, can I use them to attack? What would the damage code be? Can they carry weapons (swords and axes, I'm not talking about SMG-wielding undead)?

B) Voodoo. This would completely ruin the "hermetic" flavour, takes more time and resources and doesn't work with skeletons (or any other badly decomposed corpse). But the guys would have a little bit of autonomy, at least more than spell-animated corpses.

C) Ally spirits. Incredibly more resource-consuming, but as intelligent as an alive guy and with cool powers. Can a human skeleton be used to make a homunculus?

So, what do you think would be the best way to do this? Is there any other way? Have I missed anything in the books?
While searching the forums, I've found a reference to "corps cadavre" as a spell, apparently in a character converted from SR1-2 to SR3. Where's this and how does it work? Is it already hidden somewhere in 3rd?

[Stahlseele]

Ancient Historys site has one of these.
I'll try and dig it up
here, try this one
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Spoorn/5.html
That's about as official/legit as they come i guess ^^

*points down*
Thread just got official Seal of AH

[AndyZ]

I don't know of any rules about it, so I'm going to just speculate.

The Control Actions/Mob Control spell (210 SR4A) lets you physically control living people as if like a puppet's strings. I could see a version of this spell being used to manipulate corpses. The CA/MC spell gives negatives equal to the target's Willpower to any actions made, so by contrast maybe have a penalty to any actions made by the zombie equal to the number of weeks that the corpse has been dead and decaying.

As for damage, I'd say that you'd pretty much mirror what the bodies did in life. This would by default be Stun damage. I suppose you might be able to get them to wield weapons by stitching them into their corpsey hands, but I'd give penalties to that which I wouldn't give to zombies just fighting unarmed.

As I actually read up on stuff, there's rules for it for the Inhabitation and Possession powers in Street Magic. Note that a hermetic can still do this; he just has to summon up a capable spirit and bind it into service. It doesn't actually require voodoo.

The corps cadavre you found is optional rules for what you call a watcher possessing a body, as noted on page 95 of Street Magic.

I hope some of that helps.

[Ancient History]

Hello, I've been thinking of making a necromancer (as in, some guy who "animates/resurrects" dead guys to use them as brainless puppets, but with an overall hermetic flavour) but I still haven't found the most appropriate way to manage it... I'm trying to make it without introducing any new rules to the system, and so far I've only found 3 ways of doing it:

A) A limited version of the "Animate" spell (MITS, might have another name since my book is in Spanish), obviously limited to dead bodies. As far as I know nothing should prevent me from doing this, since the corpses are obviously not alive; the guys would have no autonomy and couldn't be banished since they aren't spirits (although the spell might be dispelled). But, can I use them to attack? What would the damage code be? Can they carry weapons (swords and axes, I'm not talking about SMG-wielding undead)?

I wrote one of those.

[ Spoiler ]

Saul's Corpsecroll
Born an Ethiopian Jew in Israel, Saul's family emigrated to the Jewish section of Prague when he was eight years old. The boy rebelled against his parents, the Jewish religious leaders and society in general, Saul became a follower of the Adversary and a Black Magician. Consumed with self-destructive urges, the young magician was given to performing blasphemies almost as a matter of course. It was one of these that ultimately destroyed him.

During one of his periodic binges, Saul came across the cooling corpse of a troll in an alley. He dragged it home to his workshop and transformed it into an ill-formed ideal of the macabre: A hideous patchwork scroll, sewn together from the troll's skin with the troll's muscles and tendons, words sewn onto the poor leathery hide with wisps of hair and muscle. The bones were brought together into a crude, garish from surmounted by the empty-eyed yellowing skull. To Saul, the whole ghastly exercise was little more than another pointless and empty achievement in a degenerate life.

Until a shedim possessed the corpsecroll. Weak and nearly dissipated, Saul easily trapped the shedim within the frame with his magic, and some dark font of rejoice broke forth from within him. Here he would find the forbidden lore he sought. This deva would instruct him in the darkest arts and unveil to him the secrets of the night! It would become his new avatar.

Unfortunately, the shedim did not cooperate. After days of trying, Saul gave in to depression and despair, scrawling his few pathetic secrets onto his ghoulish life's work before committing long, slow suicide with the slow death spell.

The shedim inhabiting the corpsecroll is trapped by a quickened Force:6 Spirit Binding spell. It is Force 1, with no karma left, and possesses the powers of Inhabitation, Karma Drain (only those who touch the corpsecroll with their bare flesh), and Innate Spell (Astral Window) (typically only within the frame of the corpsecroll). The corpsecroll contains, besides a made rambling of incoherent heresies, the formulae for Slow Death: 6, and the rare spells Death Sight, Animate Corpse, Spirit Binding and Spirit Wrack.

Death Sight
Detection
Type: M
Target: W
Duration: I
Drain: -1(S)

This spell gives the caster information on the target's general health and any illnesses, injuries or other medical problems the target might have. One success tells if the subject is ill and the relative idea of their Essence rating (high or low). Three successes reveals particular illnesses and injuries, while five will reveal specific viruses such as HIV and HMHVV and hemorraghing, cancer and other internal injuries. The maximum successes allowed equals the Force of the spell. The caster must be able to see the subject of the spell.
Saul's version required a fetish, a small iron-rimmed monocle.

Animate Corpse
Telekinetic Manipulation
Type: P
Target: OR
Duration: S
Drain: +1(L)

THis spell causes corpses or parts of corpses to move. They move according to their structure...disembodied hands crawl and claw, decapitated heads roll, bodies shamble and shuffle. The spell imparts a certain amount of flexibility, overcoming rigor mortis and allowing disembodied bones to move as the joints did in life. The caster can move only the whole of a given object...not just the finger of a disembodied hand, or the eyes of a corpse. Maximum movement rate is a number of meters per turn equal to Magic x successes (up to a maximum equal to the spell's Force). The gamemaster may reduce this rate at her discretion. Use the caster's successes for strength or Quickness if necessary.

Spirit Binding
Transformation Manipulation
Type: M
Target: 6
Duration: S
Drain: (M)

This spell creates an inward-pointing astral barrier around an object, corpse or living being that has been possessed. The possessing entity is trapped within the host until they defeat the spirit barrier, for they cannot move any part of the host through the barrier and it impedes their powers.
Canny magicians use this spell to create "spirit traps" with anchoring foci, or to cajole spirits into bargains by holding their freedom ransom.

Spirit Wrack
Combat
Type: M
Target: F
Duration: I
Drain: (S)

This spell is a Deadly damage spell specifically designed to destroy spirits that cannot otherwise be dealt with. The caster must touch an object or host the spirit is trapped in, or else the item or host of its Hidden Life (if it has that power). The target number is the Force of the spirit. The spirit resists the spell as normal. If the caster achieves more successes than the spirit, it suffers full damage and is destroyed. Otherwise, there is no effect.
Efforts to combine this spell with ritual sorcery have so far failed.

Of course, a Mass version might be handier for those Thriller re-enactments.

B) Voodoo. This would completely ruin the "hermetic" flavour, takes more time and resources and doesn't work with skeletons (or any other badly decomposed corpse). But the guys would have a little bit of autonomy, at least more than spell-animated corpses.

There are some options for limited incorporation of Voodoo into an otherwise hermetic magician vis-a-vis Summoning Talent (Zombie) from Magic in the Shadows/Shadowrun Companion v2

C) Ally spirits. Incredibly more resource-consuming, but as intelligent as an alive guy and with cool powers. Can a human skeleton be used to make a homunculus?

Sure!

So, what do you think would be the best way to do this? Is there any other way? Have I missed anything in the books?
While searching the forums, I've found a reference to "corps cadavre" as a spell, apparently in a character converted from SR1-2 to SR3. Where's this and how does it work? Is it already hidden somewhere in 3rd?

Corps cadavre was in the second edition Awakenings book, and was a voodoo-centric method involving both enchanting (to prepare the corps) and sorcery (to animate it); this was revised in 3rd edition into an act of conjuring (zombies).

[Exocet]

Wow, TY guys for the responses (specially Ancient History - I'll try that spell. Maybe even an extended area version + a cemetery, a.k.a. instant Army of Darkness).
AndyZ, those spells should be changed a little (it's pointless to mind-control something without a mind, try hypnotizing a chair - we can't use control-manipulation pells for this) and actually the effect is completely opposite, what I was trying was something more like physically moving them instead of just ordering them to do things. Anyways, thank you for trying.

Now I'm thinking of merging all three ways - a necromancer with an ally spirit inside a skeleton (for heavy duty and casting aid), regular zombies for occasional use, and the "animated insta-zombies" for minor or unexpected tasks, something a bit like watcher spirits but in the physical world. The spell guys could also work for extremely long battles since, if they aren't completely destroyed, you can animate the remaining body parts again and again, for as long as you can support the drain damage.

[Stahlseele]

Remember, you have to SEE what you are magicking.
If they are burried, you can't see them. No Instant-Army.
If you can kill an army and see the remains, yep, yours.

[Exocet]

Mmmmh... You're right. Well, I guess we'll have to bring some shovels then...
Or maybe get a Tamanous contact and ask them for the leftovers. AFAIK, those bones have no other utility so they'll be cheap.

[Stahlseele]

Shape Earth < = Dig them up en MAsse

[DamienKnight]

Remember, you have to SEE what you are magicking.
If they are burried, you can't see them. No Instant-Army.
If you can kill an army and see the remains, yep, yours.

Some bound possession spirits could remedy this. They possess corpses in the ground, dig their way out, then leave the corpse allowing the caster to take the corpse over, then move on to the next corpse. Arguably it would be a service per corpse... unless the GM allows saying 'Spirit, get all of the intact corpses out of the ground in this area.'

Or if you dont have a possession tradition, using an Earth spirit could work (they can move through the dirt freely, and have the strength to bust open coffins).

[Stahlseele]

Great form Earth Spirit.
Quake for several kilometers.
Let's shake things up a bit eh?

[The Dragon Girl]

Mmmmh... You're right. Well, I guess we'll have to bring some shovels then...
Or maybe get a Tamanous contact and ask them for the leftovers. AFAIK, those bones have no other utility so they'll be cheap.

Are you kidding? Bone gnawers. Those bones are their literal bread and butter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
And, of course, marrow transplants, and bone grafts.

(Creating a necromancer sounds boss, btw, I'll have to mark this thread so I can find it again later)