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Exocet
Hello, I've been thinking of making a necromancer (as in, some guy who "animates/resurrects" dead guys to use them as brainless puppets, but with an overall hermetic flavour) but I still haven't found the most appropriate way to manage it... I'm trying to make it without introducing any new rules to the system, and so far I've only found 3 ways of doing it:

A) A limited version of the "Animate" spell (MITS, might have another name since my book is in Spanish), obviously limited to dead bodies. As far as I know nothing should prevent me from doing this, since the corpses are obviously not alive; the guys would have no autonomy and couldn't be banished since they aren't spirits (although the spell might be dispelled). But, can I use them to attack? What would the damage code be? Can they carry weapons (swords and axes, I'm not talking about SMG-wielding undead)?

B) Voodoo. This would completely ruin the "hermetic" flavour, takes more time and resources and doesn't work with skeletons (or any other badly decomposed corpse). But the guys would have a little bit of autonomy, at least more than spell-animated corpses.

C) Ally spirits. Incredibly more resource-consuming, but as intelligent as an alive guy and with cool powers. Can a human skeleton be used to make a homunculus?

So, what do you think would be the best way to do this? Is there any other way? Have I missed anything in the books?
While searching the forums, I've found a reference to "corps cadavre" as a spell, apparently in a character converted from SR1-2 to SR3. Where's this and how does it work? Is it already hidden somewhere in 3rd?
Stahlseele
Ancient Historys site has one of these.
I'll try and dig it up
here, try this one
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Spoorn/5.html
That's about as official/legit as they come i guess ^^

*points down*
Thread just got official Seal of AH
AndyZ
I don't know of any rules about it, so I'm going to just speculate.

The Control Actions/Mob Control spell (210 SR4A) lets you physically control living people as if like a puppet's strings. I could see a version of this spell being used to manipulate corpses. The CA/MC spell gives negatives equal to the target's Willpower to any actions made, so by contrast maybe have a penalty to any actions made by the zombie equal to the number of weeks that the corpse has been dead and decaying.

As for damage, I'd say that you'd pretty much mirror what the bodies did in life. This would by default be Stun damage. I suppose you might be able to get them to wield weapons by stitching them into their corpsey hands, but I'd give penalties to that which I wouldn't give to zombies just fighting unarmed.

As I actually read up on stuff, there's rules for it for the Inhabitation and Possession powers in Street Magic. Note that a hermetic can still do this; he just has to summon up a capable spirit and bind it into service. It doesn't actually require voodoo.

The corps cadavre you found is optional rules for what you call a watcher possessing a body, as noted on page 95 of Street Magic.

I hope some of that helps.
Ancient History
QUOTE (Exocet @ Sep 25 2009, 02:31 PM) *
Hello, I've been thinking of making a necromancer (as in, some guy who "animates/resurrects" dead guys to use them as brainless puppets, but with an overall hermetic flavour) but I still haven't found the most appropriate way to manage it... I'm trying to make it without introducing any new rules to the system, and so far I've only found 3 ways of doing it:

A) A limited version of the "Animate" spell (MITS, might have another name since my book is in Spanish), obviously limited to dead bodies. As far as I know nothing should prevent me from doing this, since the corpses are obviously not alive; the guys would have no autonomy and couldn't be banished since they aren't spirits (although the spell might be dispelled). But, can I use them to attack? What would the damage code be? Can they carry weapons (swords and axes, I'm not talking about SMG-wielding undead)?

I wrote one of those.

[ Spoiler ]


Of course, a Mass version might be handier for those Thriller re-enactments.

QUOTE
B) Voodoo. This would completely ruin the "hermetic" flavour, takes more time and resources and doesn't work with skeletons (or any other badly decomposed corpse). But the guys would have a little bit of autonomy, at least more than spell-animated corpses.

There are some options for limited incorporation of Voodoo into an otherwise hermetic magician vis-a-vis Summoning Talent (Zombie) from Magic in the Shadows/Shadowrun Companion v2

QUOTE
C) Ally spirits. Incredibly more resource-consuming, but as intelligent as an alive guy and with cool powers. Can a human skeleton be used to make a homunculus?

Sure!

QUOTE
So, what do you think would be the best way to do this? Is there any other way? Have I missed anything in the books?
While searching the forums, I've found a reference to "corps cadavre" as a spell, apparently in a character converted from SR1-2 to SR3. Where's this and how does it work? Is it already hidden somewhere in 3rd?

Corps cadavre was in the second edition Awakenings book, and was a voodoo-centric method involving both enchanting (to prepare the corps) and sorcery (to animate it); this was revised in 3rd edition into an act of conjuring (zombies).
Exocet
Wow, TY guys for the responses (specially Ancient History - I'll try that spell. Maybe even an extended area version + a cemetery, a.k.a. instant Army of Darkness).
AndyZ, those spells should be changed a little (it's pointless to mind-control something without a mind, try hypnotizing a chair - we can't use control-manipulation pells for this) and actually the effect is completely opposite, what I was trying was something more like physically moving them instead of just ordering them to do things. Anyways, thank you for trying.

Now I'm thinking of merging all three ways - a necromancer with an ally spirit inside a skeleton (for heavy duty and casting aid), regular zombies for occasional use, and the "animated insta-zombies" for minor or unexpected tasks, something a bit like watcher spirits but in the physical world. The spell guys could also work for extremely long battles since, if they aren't completely destroyed, you can animate the remaining body parts again and again, for as long as you can support the drain damage.
Stahlseele
Remember, you have to SEE what you are magicking.
If they are burried, you can't see them. No Instant-Army.
If you can kill an army and see the remains, yep, yours.
Exocet
Mmmmh... You're right. Well, I guess we'll have to bring some shovels then...
Or maybe get a Tamanous contact and ask them for the leftovers. AFAIK, those bones have no other utility so they'll be cheap.
Stahlseele
Shape Earth < = Dig them up en MAsse
DamienKnight
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 25 2009, 12:56 PM) *
Remember, you have to SEE what you are magicking.
If they are burried, you can't see them. No Instant-Army.
If you can kill an army and see the remains, yep, yours.


Some bound possession spirits could remedy this. They possess corpses in the ground, dig their way out, then leave the corpse allowing the caster to take the corpse over, then move on to the next corpse. Arguably it would be a service per corpse... unless the GM allows saying 'Spirit, get all of the intact corpses out of the ground in this area.'

Or if you dont have a possession tradition, using an Earth spirit could work (they can move through the dirt freely, and have the strength to bust open coffins).
Stahlseele
Great form Earth Spirit.
Quake for several kilometers.
Let's shake things up a bit eh?
The Dragon Girl
QUOTE (Exocet @ Sep 25 2009, 01:15 PM) *
Mmmmh... You're right. Well, I guess we'll have to bring some shovels then...
Or maybe get a Tamanous contact and ask them for the leftovers. AFAIK, those bones have no other utility so they'll be cheap.



Are you kidding? Bone gnawers. Those bones are their literal bread and butter biggrin.gif
And, of course, marrow transplants, and bone grafts.

(Creating a necromancer sounds boss, btw, I'll have to mark this thread so I can find it again later)
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