Darn Flybots!, ` Options

[Legs]

I need help figuring out how to stop my rigger from sending in a bunch of flybots to survey a location. I don't want to penalize him, really...since he's just doing a thorough job and should be rewarded for that...but it makes it impossible to surprise anyone in the group.

I'm running a very low level campaign, so it doesnt make sense that every adversary would have a rigger on hand to counter the PC rigger's drones.

[McCummhail]

How big are these flybots?
Are they normal size or microdrones?

[Legs]

I meant FLY-SPY.

They're the size of a large insect.

[Penta]

Here's a thought: Anything that small has a very small field of view and possibly limited range.

To do thorough recon, you have to send in multiple. If not dozens. Possibly hundreds.

One insect goes unnoticed. A few dozen, less so. A few hundred, hell no.

Especially when they don't fly naturally, nor make natural noises. Or when they fly in suspicious patterns.

[Karoline]

The biggest things to keep in mind is that they can only see what is outside the building they are spying on, and they can only see things that aren't concealed. They would for example know that there is a fence around the compound, but not that it is electrified. And they would also likely not notice any sort of tripwires, hidden turrets, or of course anything at all about the defenses inside the building.

Edit: And if he is actually sending them into the building, they're likely to be noticed. If not as drones, then as insects, and if it is a low level game, having a drone or two destroyed by the guard with a newspaper should be fair exchange for intel.

Edit2: Insects automatically spawn newspapers around them, even in the SR universe where newspapers basically don't exist.

[Legs]

My main problem is he gets about a half dozen flybots INTO the places the PCs are going into, and he scopes the whole place out, finding out where people are stationed, any visible security, etc...

Like I said, I think this is great that he's so thorough and professional, but it really puts a damper on some of my plans.

[McCummhail]

Are you trying to surprise them, but not discourage the use of extensive drone scouting?
The occasional shotgun can be discouraging to fly-spy drone reliance.

Indoor environments can be used as a barrier for the drones
as not every location is open to bugs.

Careful use of wifi nullification / wifi barriers can inhibit drone scouting as well.

[Paul]

Karoline makes a good point, in my humble opinion. I'm not sure what sort of sensors these things pack offhand, but while they may get the lay of the land unless things are being actively used it may be difficult to scope things out. (In example a hidden gun turret that pops up will not be immediately visible.)

Beyond that, here's a question for anyone: Why wouldn't a Corporation mess with unknown signals on their turf, especially in secure areas? Is that a possibility?

[Orcus Blackweath...]

I think it would be wrong to arbitrarily decide that nothing the players can do will allow them to circumvent security. The message this sends is why bother. If nothing I do matters, I might as well just go in shooting every time. If one player is monopolizing time, and this is becoming an issue, then you can take steps to share the time more fairly.

That being said:
There are a number of standard defenses that corps take against intrusion. Wi-fi defeating wallpaper being the first. Drones will either be controlled or autonomous. If they cannot communicate back to the rigger, then they will have to be self-directing. This will limit the available intelligence. There are ways of circumventing the anti-wifi measures, but they start to get expensive. Another defense would be sealed rooms and mantraps. Prior to entering a high security area every employee must enter a mantrap that includes advanced sensors. Perhaps if the area is sufficiently sensitive it would include degaussing to kill RFID and drones. Even these sort of things can be defeated, but now we are talking serious money. When a team of drones with signature reduction and advanced sensors are detected, the rigger stands to lose a lot. The more risky things get, the greater the monetary risk the rigger faces. If a run is paying 20k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for the team, and the rigger is risking more than 20k himself, he will be more circumspect in the use of his drones, and again less intelligence will be developed. My personal opinion though, is that if you think out a bunch of protective measures, and the rigger can bypass him, he should be rewarded with the information he was after, even if that means a little less suspense.

One last point, magical defenses are not seen by a drone, and defenses that fail to detect a signature -4 drone may still detect a full size metahuman (or an entire group of them). The drone may not detect a number of countermeasures that are conveniently hidden in the walls for aesthetic reasons. Once the party trips the weight sensor in the uber-secret hallway, the entire layout of thebuilding will change.

[DireRadiant]

Stealth checks. Fly spies don't have enormous pools for sensor tests. So an opposed test can have a significant affect on the fly spy ability to notice things. 4-6 dice pool stealth versus the drones 6-9 dice sensor + perception is going to allow for the drone to miss seeing something enough times to allow for the occasional surprise to happen.

Stealth and cover could be used to "hide" interior features.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The biggest things to keep in mind is that they can only see what is outside the building they are spying on, and they can only see things that aren't concealed. They would for example know that there is a fence around the compound, but not that it is electrified. And they would also likely not notice any sort of tripwires, hidden turrets, or of course anything at all about the defenses inside the building.

That depends entirly on the Sensor Package and Autosofts.

[kzt]

Any corp will be on the lookout for people trying to get drones into their buildings. There really are very few places were the CEO would be happy knowing that intruders can listen to everything anyone says and watch everything that anyone can do.

[Pendaric]

anti micro drone hunter the dragon fly, dead zones and jammers/anti wifi paint.

[Paul]

That depends entirly on the Sensor Package and Autosofts.

In which case I'd say the race to fool these sensors and autosofts is on! I'd assume counter measures must exist, after these are multitrillion dollar extra-national entities. I agree heartily with Orcus Blackweather (Something I seem to do a lot of!) that it's not a good thing to prohibit players from doing things, but there's nothing wrong with playing these types of entities as the ruthless bastards they can be!

After all how would you protect your secret assets? Now give yourself the resources of a super rich, super powerful country.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

In which case I'd say the race to fool these sensors and autosofts is on! I'd assume counter measures must exist, after these are multitrillion dollar extra-national entities.

..that are broken down in miniscule compartents, where the prime objective is to be as cheap as possible - and the person responsible for the compartment can kiss his career goodbye both for either failing to be secure or cheap... because the person he reports to doesn't give a shit as he too needs to report his budget and security to someone else...

Which quickly evolves to: "Let's do the basics, hope nothing too bad happens and hush up the rest before someone notices."

[Paul]

Absolutely it can be like that. It can also play out differently. I'd say it depends on how you, as a Game Master need it to play. I don't make every run a whirlwind nightmare of deceit and deception, but they're not all cake walks either.

[Ravor]

Meh, I figure that if the corps are smart enough to take some simple and effective countermeasures to prevent spirits from being the end-all of recon then they are also smart enough to do the same for drones, espically when it's easier to counter a swarm of drones.

[Traul]

anti micro drone hunter the dragon fly, dead zones and jammers/anti wifi paint.

I love the idea of dragonflies patrolling the area 24/24 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Feels like the blood immune system.

As for the dead zone, except in ultra high security areas, it would require some extra network equipment to allow authorized communication with the outside. An access nexus as a gateway that can emit both outside and inside and filters traffic should do. So the building would not be completely secure, but you would have to hack the nexus first (which might be beefed up) to either spoof an account or shut down his firewall, and if it recovers while your drones are in you might lose them.

[rob]

As for the dead zone, except in ultra high security areas, it would require some extra network equipment to allow authorized communication with the outside. An access nexus as a gateway that can emit both outside and inside and only lets authorized traffic through. So the building would not be completely secure, but you would have to hack the nexus first (which might be beefed up), and it can discover your drones and shut the communication at any time.

It's even fair to say that you don't have to hack the nexus, it will let you on if you ask it (with a very basic account do-nothing account), but you'll then be on the network. If the security server is running the basic telematics software package from unwired, a nifty little ARO will pop up on all the guard's vision showing where all these brand new guest-account flyspies are.

I imagine most low-to-medium security facilities will have their own wifi network, which doesn't connect out but makes it easier for people to work, and a monitored "convenience" unsecured network so people can check on other things. As long as the same device doesn't connect to both, they'll be happy. So once your boy's flyspies get in the building (which has an incentive to use wireless wallpaper, etc, to contain their own networks), they'll be going through the buildling's servers for access, and the builidng will know they are there.

He can get around this, with retrans units and things, but that makes him a more visible. Anyway, it wouldn't be fun if he didn't have some way to make it work. If he beefs up the signal on the flyspies, well, for one, that's a lot of money. Personally, I houserule that if you're using high signal on tiny things, it drains their operating time a lot. But that's up to yall.

[toturi]

Take a good look at your office. Real good look. Where are your power conduits, your environmental control/air conditioning? Sure, there's wallpaper, but do you wall paper your ceilings? Or your floors? How about your toilets? Are the sanitary pipes secured? These can serve as plausible explanations as to how the rigger is penetrating your security. A point that stands out for building security is that you can't afford to secure everything. If you want to make your life easier, you could consider asking the rigger to roll a Security-type Knowledge skill check. If he succeeds, he is able to bypass the countermeasures.

[rob]

Toturi: I ain't talking about the drones getting in - I'm sure legs got that under as much control as he chooses. Problem is the wireless signals getting out, for the intelligence and the context-driven control of the drones. Radios, esp. low power ones, suck at getting through enough stuff, going through a floor/ceiling/power conduit/AC duct etc. is gonna be the problem. My cell phone doesn't get out of my office, and a drone the size of a large insect won't have a much bigger radio.

The drones will have a control range of 40m to 100m (signal 1 or 2) maximum with clear LOS, unless they hit up the matrix. If they DO hit the matrix, the building knows where they are. If they don't, then the rigger has to be very smart about telling their dog brains what to do, and he won't know what's happening until one of the drones comes out and sends all the info it collected.

If the rigger character figures this will be a problem and plans for it, then for all means it should work. There's ways to get around this (retrans units, a drone running a myomeric cable to a satellite uplink, etc.), but it requires extra planning and some more detailed reconnaissance of the target. Which makes for a fun game.

But if the same trick (send the flyspies in, collect the info, win) works all the time, then the game gets boring, which sounds like Leg's concern.

[The Monk]

If he is sending that many fly-spys into a building, chances are some of them will be detected. If the drones are going in hoping that its size will conceal it then perceivers need three successes to detect it. There are also a lot of situational modifiers that may apply to the perceivers such as:

A security guard would probably be trained to look out for such things, after all this technology is not exactly a secret. He would get the actively looking: +3

A big bug would stand out in many places. If there is a large dragon fly flying around inside your house you'd probably see it if not hear it: +2

If its using a covertOps autosoft then its an opposed test.

[Traul]

The good thing about patrolling dragonflies is that they do not rely on visual input alone. They can also detect WI-FI emitters to make the difference between a real bug and a drone.

But they'd better kill bugs too for sanitation.

[DuctShuiTengu]

Take a wireless device with decent ratings. Stick an agent with a scan program in it. Have it continuously scanning for hidden nodes (and automatically detecting active and passive ones) and send warnings to security if it finds something that shouldn't be there. (Wifi signal scanners from the BBB seem like they'd work, but as written are actually only usable for intercepting and eavesdropping rather than detecting). Toss a few of these into the secure areas of your corporate facilities.

[crizh]

This would be called Telematics Infrastructure and is detailed in Unwired (as rob already mentioned).

No secure facility should be without it, it is extremely cheap and will usually take between 15 and 30 seconds to spot even Hidden nodes with Non-standard wireless.

I'd be cautious about blanketing facilities in wi-fi inhibiting wallpaper, that shit is expensive and Faraday Cages are doubly so.