Lightning Bolt Damage Type Options

[brennanhawkwood]

I was looking in the SR4A rules to double check what type of damage is done by the Lightning Bolt spell and there seems to be a possible contradiction so I was curious how others are handling it.

What I found when I was looking into it was this (bolding is my emphasis):

Each spell description notes whether damage is Stun (S) or Physical (P).

Then I checked the entry for the spells:

Lightning Bolt (Indirect, Elemental)
Type: P • Range: LOS • Damage: P • Duration: I • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 3
Ball Lightning (Indirect, Elemental, Area)
Type: P • Range: LOS (A) • Damage: P • Duration: I • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 5
These spells create and direct vicious strikes of electricity that cause
Electricity damage (p. 163). Lightning Bolt is a single target spell. Ball
Lightning is an area spell.

Which seemed straight forward as the spell entry states Damage: P. But the spell description also states that it causes 'Electricity Damage' which is described as follows:

These weapons rely on a contact discharge of electricity rather than kinetic energy. Spells and critter powers such as Lightning Bolt and Energy Aura cause similar effects.
...
Electrical damage is treated as Stun damage and resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up)—metallic armor, however, offers no protection. The nonconductive armor upgrade (p. 327) adds its full rating to the armor value. Other factors may modify the target’s damage
...
A successful Electricity damage attack can stun and incapacitate the target as well.
...
Electronic equipment, vehicles, and drones can also be affected by Electricity damage.

That pretty clearly says that Electricity damage is treated as Stun damage which can have additional effects (temporary incapacitation of living creatures and/or electronics).

Which rule takes precedent? The spell rules or the damage type rules for the type of damage that the spell rules say the spell inflicts?

[Thanee]

It works like electricity weapons with regards to the secondary damage (stunning).

The damage is physical.

Bye
Thanee

[Neraph]

It works like electricity weapons with regards to the secondary damage (stunning).

The damage is physical.

Bye
Thanee

This is true.

[Ravor]

Basically the idea is that the Lighting that is produced by the spell carries more amps than tasers and household wiring.

Of course, I'd also rule that anyone stupid enough to get zapped by highline powerlines take physical as well.

[Neraph]

Basically the idea is that the Lighting that is produced by the spell carries more amps than tasers and household wiring.

Of course, I'd also rule that anyone stupid enough to get zapped by highline powerlines take physical as well.

That's what overflow is for, but yeah.

[brennanhawkwood]

Thank you all. The way you describe it basically how I was assuming it would work, I just found it a little odd going to look up the secondary effect under the energy type where the book proceded to tell me that that energy type does S damage.

[Screaming Eagle]

Basically the idea is that the Lighting that is produced by the spell carries more amps than tasers and household wiring.

Of course, I'd also rule that anyone stupid enough to get zapped by highline powerlines take physical as well.

Hmm, you licked the power line eh? hmm...

Take 60S damage. Roll un-augmented body to resist.

You spent edge rolled dozens of 6's and soaked it easily? hmm...

Rocks fall, you die.

[Draco18s]

Secondary question:
What force do you need to cast the spell at to effect a drone?

[WyldKnight]

Doesn't the drone roll a resist test to keep from malfunctioning? So I guess a safe force would 3 or 4 but it comes down to the dice right?

[Cheshyr]

SR4A p164

Electronic equipment, vehicles, and drones can also be affected by Electricity damage.
They never suffer Stun damage, but they do roll Body + Armor (drones and vehicles) or
Armor x 2 (other objects) to resist secondary effects. If they achieve equal or more hits than
the attack, they are unaffected. Otherwise, they cease to function for a number of Combat
Turns equal to 2 + net hits scored on the attack test (and may need to reboot after that).

[Draco18s]

Body + Armor for a drone (or any electrical equipment) to resist being non-functional is way in favor of the object. We're throwing so much juice in that lightning bolt spell that it does P damage when electrical attacks normally do S, yet they are not subject to the "metal armor provides no benefit" clause.

It is, in fact, harder to short out most electronic devices than it is to overload a human's nervous system (I don't know about you guys, but have you ever fallen unconscious from the shock you get after touching a metal door after scruffing your shoes on the carpet? I bet not. How many of you have fried your computer doing that?)

[Lok1 :)]

Hmm, you licked the power line eh? hmm...

Take 60S damage. Roll un-augmented body to resist.

You spent edge rolled dozens of 6's and soaked it easily? hmm...

Rocks fall, you die.

You've got it all wrong, at that point you become electro. Just stay away from arachnid based SURGE characters. (And water)
PS: This got me thinking, dose anyone rember how Max Dillion got his power busted way up a few years ago? I rember him become more unstable but I can't seem to rember how exactly.

[Ravor]

Naw, I know a guy who was touching a crane-truck that brushed against a live line, he lived but it literally blew his thumbs and part of his foot off.

[Ravor]

I would have never imagined that it was possible to recreate a human thumb by cutting off one's big toe and attaching it to one's hand well over a decade ago.

[Neraph]

Secondary question:
What force do you need to cast the spell at to effect a drone?

Obviously you cast Pulse.

[Ravor]

Hmm, makes me wonder what the drain for an Indirect Lightening/Flame elemental spell with the Pulse ability built in as well.

[Jhaiisiin]

Assuming you want it an LOS(A) spell, the following modifiers should apply:
Physical Spell: +1
LOS: +0
Area: +2
Instant: +0
Elemental Effect: +2
Environmental Manipulation: -2

Should put the final Drain code at (F/2)+3. Surprisingly, this makes it have *less* drain than the base Ball Lightning or Fireball spells. To keep it balanced, I might double the elemental effect (once for manipulation, once for combat), putting the final code at (F/2)+5, same as Ball lightning and Fireball.

If you want Electric Fire Pulse though, I'd maintain the latter suggestion and double the modifier from *either* the combat or manipulation section, putting it at (F/2)+7. You could do both, chucking it up to +9, but that seems extreme. Then again, you are doing an electric fireball EMP spell, so maybe +9 isn't so unreasonable. Casting "Nuke area" should *hurt*.

[Marwynn]

Don't forget the Major/Minor Change. I'd say it's a Major change myself, so it's +2. Still a bargain at F/2 + 5 though.

[Ravor]

Well I was thinking of a simple LOS spell, but thanks...

[Triggerz]

It works like electricity weapons with regards to the secondary damage (stunning).

The damage is physical.

Bye
Thanee

Is that how everyone would handle the [Element] Aura spell too? For example, I cast the Electricity Aura spell on myself and hit someone with a club (doing Physical damage). The DV of the melee attack is boosted by the caster's hits on the spellcasting test and the melee attack still does Physical damage, and you then check for the secondary effects as normal?

What about the damage from a successful melee attack against the character with the Electricity Aura?

Any successful physical melee attack against the subject also means that the attacker must resist similar damage from the aura. The aura’s Damage Value equals the spell’s Force.

That one would still be treated as Stun damage?

[Jhaiisiin]

Well I was thinking of a simple LOS spell, but thanks...

No problem, just pull the LOS modifier out and wallah. Though an Electromagnetic Pulse set as a more directed single target thing instead of an area effect as is its nature breaks my brain.

[Draco18s]

No problem, just pull the LOS modifier out and wallah. Though an Electromagnetic Pulse set as a more directed single target thing instead of an area effect as is its nature breaks my brain.

Magic.

[Jhaiisiin]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Don't forget the Major/Minor Change. I'd say it's a Major change myself, so it's +2. Still a bargain at F/2 + 5 though.

And multiple elemental effects apply the modifer equal to the elemental effects... which is why dual elemental effect spells are so brutally high in drain...

[Jhaiisiin]

So you'd apply the Major change and Environmental manipulation items? Hmm

Existing Pulse spell is LOS(A) with Drain of (F/2)+3, and specifically mentions Environmental... Breaking it down I came up with:
Physical Spell: +1
LOS: +0
Area: +2
Instant: +0
Environmental Manipulation: -2


Wow, okay, I totally missed that. Yeah, add in the major change or elemental effect items and it brings it to the right drain.

That said, revised drain codes for the above stuff:

Fire Pulse, Drain code (F/2)+5
Physical Spell: +1
LOS: +0
Area: +2
Instant: +0
Environmental Manipulation: -2
Elemental Effect: +2
Major Change: +2

Electric Pulse, Drain code (F/2)+5
Physical Spell: +1
LOS: +0
Area: +2
Instant: +0
Environmental Manipulation: -2
Elemental Effect: +2
Major Change: +2

Electric Fire Pulse, Drain code (F/2)+7
Physical Spell: +1
LOS: +0
Area: +2
Instant: +0
Environmental Manipulation: -2
Elemental Effect (Lightning): +2
Elemental Effect (Fire): +2
Major Change: +2