Hacking the Street Samurai Options

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thanks, and oh yeah, I can most definently get used to being mellow Ravor, good women are hard to find, and good women who don't mind the fact that you've got custody of young children, even harder. Man I think I hit the fragging lottery, maybe...

Congratulations... Yes, Good women are indeed hard to find... thankful for my Wife every day, she is an extraordinary woman in my book...

Keep the Faith

[Ravor]

Crossing my fingers.

[Rad]

Hmm, I guess some things are only clear from a distance...

Been a while since my group played SR4 (we're on our way back to it) and now that my mental buffers have been cleaned out, so to speak, a thought occurs:

One of the big arguments brought out against hacking cyberware is that the owner can just use DNI to override your commands...

...now, I don't know if the rules explicitly say one way or the other on that, but considering how computers work, it seems like you'd have to override the command after it had started being carried out. Meaning "instantaneous" things like "dump memory" or "reboot" couldn't be stopped.

The reason for this being that the DNI command to stop, while technically having a higher "authority" on the system, would not be processed until after the device ran the hacker's command. This isn't like a person where someone says "shoot", another person says "no, wait, stop!" and you have time to hear both commands before you decide what to do.

When the CPU in your smartlink hears "shoot" from an authorized node, it shoots.

When it hears "no, wait, stop!", it stops shooting--but the first round of bullets has already flown.

[Ravor]

True, but I think that the actual arguement that people are making is that with DNI there is very little reason to even have wireless working at all so Deckers couldn't even connect.

*EDIT*

Or another possiblity is for the computer to require a DNI "premission" before accepting a command via wireless, much as the various Internet Security software works today.

[Rad]

True enough. DNI override is usually the second argument, after someone finds a way around the first one. (Weaponized nanotech and micro-tapper drones tend to work well)

As for requiring DNI permission, that's similar to the FAQ entry about a rigger making his drones double-check orders to prevent spoofing. The problem with that kind of solution is that it takes an action on the owner's part. (a free action, but still) It's less of an issue in this case, when wireless access is rare, but keep in mind that a street-sam with that setting on his 'ware is getting DNI pings *constantly* in a spam zone--or pretty much any highly-connected area.

You can set it to "block automatically", but that still leaves the problem of hacker nanites opening you up. Essentially, it's the same problem of leaving the wireless "software-disabled", just with a bit more detail.

[Ravor]

However, people on the other side refuse to adress the issue that it's easy to simply buy your cyber with no wireless at all in the first place, and hardwiring everything to a single 'jack or internal 'link is free and easy.

[Orcus Blackweath...]

However, people on the other side refuse to adress the issue that it's easy to simply buy your cyber with no wireless at all in the first place, and hardwiring everything to a single 'jack or internal 'link is free and easy.

If you have hardware that does not need any kind of outside your body access I agree with you 100%. Wired reflexes, muscle augments, razors, and other self only items. As soon as you link your cyber eyes to you comm, or have an internal smartlink, and need it to communicate, or god forbid, you have an internal commlink, at that point all bets are off.

[Ravor]

Which is why I figure that everyone should only have one or possibly two "wireless" pathways leaving his body, and then only have his cyber talk to said pathways when that piece of cyber recieves a DNI command to do so, and to auto refuse any "outside" attempts to connect.


Sure a Decker and hack into your 'jack, but unless you are actively using wireless on any given piece of cyber there isn't all that much the Decker can do.

[3278]

However, people on the other side refuse to adress the issue that it's easy to simply buy your cyber with no wireless at all in the first place, and hardwiring everything to a single 'jack or internal 'link is free and easy.

I am absolutely with you. It's easy to buy cyber without wireless capabilities...but then I have to wonder, why is there so much information about wireless cyberware in the books? From my perspective, it makes more sense to offer wireless as an option on [certain] cyberware than it does to emphasize wireless to the extent that you have to remove it or specify that you'd like to buy non-wireless cyberware.

Which is why I figure that everyone should only have one or possibly two "wireless" pathways leaving his body, and then only have his cyber talk to said pathways when that piece of cyber recieves a DNI command to do so, and to auto refuse any "outside" attempts to connect.

I'm no 4e Matrix guru - it's why I keep asking so much about it! - but isn't this the entire point of Spoof? Convincing the cyber, in this case, "No, no, this command isn't from outside!"

Sure a Decker and hack into your 'jack...

...but if the decker can hack into your datajack, you've already got serious problems! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Beware people running up to you holding out the business end of a fiber optic link.

[Cthulhudreams]

Yeah, but afaik unwired made spoof useless, you have to provide a valid access idea that you've seen used sniffer with spoof, so if they preshare a list of valid access ids and delete the top one each time it is used and black list the rest, you are stuffed.

[3278]

Yeah, but afaik unwired made spoof useless, you have to provide a valid access idea that you've seen used sniffer with spoof...

I'm not sure entirely what you mean by this, but the impression I get is that unless you have a valid access ID gained by sniffer, you can't use Spoof? Is that what you're saying? [I'd believe it, I'm just not understanding your wording.]

Does anyone see a way around this?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, but afaik unwired made spoof useless, you have to provide a valid access idea that you've seen used sniffer with spoof, so if they preshare a list of valid access ids and delete the top one each time it is used and black list the rest, you are stuffed.

The simple truth is that you cannot keep yourself from being hacked... once yuou close one pathway, there is another, that is why there is an Exploit Program... adn once you have access, you open up all manner of unpleasantness that is hard to avoid once you have been compromised...

Unwired did not make Spoof unuseable... you still make the roll, just as you did before... but now they have given a definition to what the roll relates to... Nothing has really changed... You still have to have access to teh network before you can actually Spoof...


Keep the Faith

[Cthulhudreams]

I'm not sure entirely what you mean by this, but the impression I get is that unless you have a valid access ID gained by sniffer, you can't use Spoof? Is that what you're saying? [I'd believe it, I'm just not understanding your wording.]

Does anyone see a way around this?

err, let me try that better:

Hosts have lists of 'valid' access IDs that are allowed to access them

So you need to spoof one of those valid access IDs

To know what you need to spoof, you need to have seen those access IDs used first by sniffing or otherwise finding out what is on the list.

[Ravor]

Well remember that in Fourth Edition even 'jacks are wireless and given that I prefer buying Betagrade+ 'jacks for my characters the Wireless Range isn't all that bad.

But yeah, I agree, the devs went crazy with the entire "everything is wireless by default" without realizing the damage that it does to the setting, but I'm not sure that you could spoof a device that is told not to except any outside connections.

[3278]

Well remember that in Fourth Edition even 'jacks are wireless...

...what? Wouldn't a "wireless datajack" just be an implanted commlink?

For what it's worth:

Datajack: A datajack allows a user to directly interface with any electronic device via a fiberoptic cable. Datajacks also allow users to slot and mentally access chips, softs, and BTLs. Datajacks are equipped with their own memory storage for downloading or saving files. Two datajack users can string a fiberoptic cable between themselves to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception/eavesdropping.

[Ravor]

Naw because remember that in Fourth Edition everything is wireless unless stated otherwise, and the 'jack's cousin datalock does have a special note saying that it has no wireless ability built in which the 'jack does not.

Besides, an actually implanted 'link coupled with a sim module can do more than a mere 'jack alone, but for most people I think the extra cost wouldn't be worth it.

[3278]

Does anyone else interpret the datajack as being a wireless device?

[Cthulhudreams]

The rules state that all implanted cyberware has wireless functions that you have to specifically disable in the basic book and augementation.

Is this stupid beyond all belief? You bet.

It's still worse than a commlink though because it's only 2/2/2/2 which is a shite commlink.

[Ravor]

That is only true for a standard 'jack, all you've got to do is shell out alittle extra (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and you've got a datajack with some decent stats to make into a chokepoint of death, hell, 'jacks are cheap enough that it isn't out of reach either.

*EDIT*

And 'jacks are one of the few pieces of cyber that having wireless access actually makes sense for.

[3278]

And 'jacks are one of the few pieces of cyber that having wireless access actually makes sense for.

For my part, it's one of the ones I would never have wireless access on! If I'm going to have a datajack, the whole point would be that it's only capable of fiber optic links [although I might rule for a player who wanted it that a 0-signal diagnostic connection wasn't unreasonable]. That's sort of why I'm asking other people how they do theirs.

While we're waiting for other people to weigh in, what would the stats on your datajack be, in your interpretation, in whatever grade you'd choose?

[Ravor]

Aye, but I figure that the entire point of a 'jack is being able to connect with other devices, and in Fourth Edition that means going wireless, sure there are tradeoffs with security but thats the game that everyone has to play.

As for the Device Ratings, well according to the "Device Rating Table" it should go as follows...


Datajack: Rating 3 (Standard for all Headware)

Alphaware: Rating 4

Betaware: Rating 5

Deltaware: Rating 6


As cheap as 'jacks are, everyone should be able to shell out the nuyen for Betagrade, and if you can get in the door, not even Deltagrade is that unreasonable.

[Cthulhudreams]

Sorry my bad about misemebering the device rating!

[3278]

As cheap as 'jacks are, everyone should be able to shell out the nuyen for Betagrade, and if you can get in the door, not even Deltagrade is that unreasonable.

Okay, so check my math. If I buy an implanted Commlink, with 4/4/4/4, standard grade, it should cost 11,000 nuyen, and take 0.2 essence. [I'm doing all this off the DK1a spreadsheet, so seriously, please, check my math! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ]

With your Alphaware datajack, would the stats be 4/4/4/4, 0.08 essence, and a cost of 1,000 nuyen? Doesn't this give you all the functions of a commlink, plus the ability to use a fiber optic link, for vastly less money and essence? [It'd only get worse with Deltaware: the datajack would cost 5,000 nuyen and 0.05 essence, for what you'd pay 24,000 nuyen and 0.2 essence for in a commlink.]

That said, if increasing the grade of your datajack automatically increases the rating of its wireless functions, why isn't the same for the commlink? I feel like there's just something going on here I'm not understanding; help a brother out?

[Cthulhudreams]

Two things 1) The matrix rules are bad

2) The device rating has some weasel words about just being indicative or something.

[Ravor]

Aye, I had forgotten the bit about Signal Rating, that would probably remain ( Rating 0 ). As for the rest, well I don't remember if this is actually in the books or if this is just a something that I made up awhile back to keep things from getting crazy but I figure that the mirco computers that are in everything tend to be dedicated for their jobs, so in the case of a 'jack I figure that it was limited to running programs to increase security, connect with other devices, run knowsofts, and probably edit the headware memory that seems to be included now.

However, you really couldn't surf the 'Trix without a proper commlink.