City Speak, Does anyone speak it anymore? Options

[kevyn668]

I remember back in the day it seemed like if you planned on working the streets you needed CitySpeak. Has SR moved away from it or what?

[Raptor1033]

my gm ruled that it was a specialization of english and if you didn't know it but knew english you had a +2 modifier to interpret what the other guy's saying. i've only had one or two characters that spoke it, both gangers.

[Munchkinslayer]

Wasn't old school SR city speak like P.K. Dick's? Ya know, from "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" If you didn't sling the lingo, you were screwed. It was such a mishmash of actual languages, bastardized languages, and slang. It was'nt a specialization IIRC. But christ, it's been forever so I could be wrong.

[Aidley]

You know, none of my current characters has it. english seems to do well enough for most circumstances, and where that fails, japanes &/or sperithiel tend to do the trick.

in my copy of nsrcg, it's listed as a specialisation of english, right along with deckerese.

I don't know if that helps any or adds more fuel to the fire.

I guess it's up to the gm to decide how cityspeak is used, if at all. :)

[kevyn668]

[Aidley]

got one question for the advocates of cityspeak as a runner necessity.

why would a johnson necessarily speak it?

I understand how it can be a lingua franca between metavariants and different races, in much the same way that 'common' is in the dungeoun crawlers.

But i've never really understood why a johnson would use it - especially if they were from a corp setting. Then mightn't english or japanese be their language of preference?

-- more fat to chew on --

[kevyn668]

A green Johnson would usen't use it. A veteran Johnson might know it and use it depending on the type of runners he hires. It might make a good impression on the runners if he could "talk the talk". Or put him in a better bargining position if he can understand what the runners are saying about him.

I meant the original post to refer to runners, really. Most gangers should speak CitySpeak as thier primary language--well, smaller gangs and gangs from the Barrens. Not so much the NovaRich. Though they'd probably speak it in addition to the 3 other languages they know or have it on a lingua soft. Fraggin soc's.

I was thinking that runners tend to deal w/ (and/or be) the scum of society.

This post has been edited by kevyn668: Jan 31 2004, 04:06 PM

[Aidley]

cool.

so i guess it's like latin in that respect. almost totally useless outside of specific circumstances, but incredibly cool to know in the right circles. ;)

[kevyn668]

whoa, let me clarify before someone takes a swing: I don't think its a neccessary for everyrunner to have. I just think a lot more importance was placed on having it back in the day.

[Aidley]

swing?

this is fascinating. we're having a lively adult discussion about something we're both interested in, and I'm yet to come even remotely near close to taking offence. And i sincerely apologise if you have taken it.

this is wonderful, I'm playing with my vocab a bit, and it's nice to se replies jump up as soon as i refresh the main page.

thanks, for keeping a humble strine chicky entertained.

[Lilt]

I doubt Jhonsons would speak it. They would understand it, but I just can't see Mr Jhonson trying to talk the talk to impress runners, why would he? He's not gonna get the price of the run down. It could also ruin his credibility if he used out of date lingo or talked in cityspeak, then blatantly failed to understand what one of the runners said in cityspeak. Also the sight of a corper in a suit speaking with street slang may just be silly enough to ruin his credibility in the first place.

[edit]According to P91 of SR3, Cityspeak is a lingo(specialisation) of English. I also find the last paragraph where it says that Cityspeak and Netspeak incorporate visual clues interesting. I have this image of a corper in a pristine suit suddeny using mixtures of Ali-G and gangster-rap hand symbols/phrases whilst describing a run to the runners.[/edit]

[kevyn668]

@ lilt: Depends on the game and Johnson, I guess. I was just theorizing...

@ Aidley: I'm so sorry, dude! I'm not offended at all. My earlier post was to avoid someone posting "There's no need for a runner to have CitySpeak, because..." It wasn't meant to be directed at you. We're cool. There's no tension. :)
BTW: "swing" as in, to punch. or "swing a fist at my head". So ka?

[RangerJoe]

I think you're right-- there has been a big move away from cityspeak in the recent SR sourcebooks and adventure books. All of a sudden everyone is speaking the Queen's own English in easily understodd mid-western accents (something about a "newsfeed" casually refering to "an astral rift" just bothers me...)

The closest recent SR products have gotten to a feel for lingo is the insistence on having local guides in strange running climates (eg: Yucatan, Antartica, etc.) What they forget is that the Barrens are also a strange running climate. :-)

For a great primer in some less-often used cityspeak (stuff that even the most on-line player won't pick up from the digital lexicons), check out the novel "He, She, and It." It's sort of the human-meat of the cyberpunk world (that is, it's "the other, other cyberpunk") and has a good intro to why city speak is important, as well as a short dictionary. It's closer to A Clockwork Orange argot than the heavily Japanese influenced SR cityspeak. My favorite part of it is that "the person you are sleeping with" == "my duffel." A) It gives new meaning to the term "humping a duffel," and B) I must not slip and call the new lady-friend "my duffel" to her face, lest she look very very very confused...

Also:

Sprawl == "the Glop"
Man/Male == "rod"
Woman/Female == "nook"
Money/Cred == "betty" (don't ask)
good/quality == "chill/cold/frigid/any other words relating to cold"
bad/counterfeit == "hot/etc. see above."

there's more to come when I get my copy back

Oh, here's the details:

He, She and It, By Marge Piercy (who claims never to have read any Gibson or Stevenson.... yeah....). pub Alfred A. Knopf, 446 pp., avail in paperback and hardcover

[John Campbell]

[Moonstone Spider]

Didn't Dunkelzahn's will mention an Orcish language as well?

[Abstruse]

Yeah, there was one in the 4th Age apparently, but no speaks it now. Give them 10 years or so to translate it though...

I never saw Cityspeak as a language per se but more as a dialect on crack. Ever seen Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels? The scene in the pub where Danny John-Jules's character (aka Cat from Red Dwarf) is explaining how the guy lit some dude on fire for changing the TV from his football match (that's "soccer" for you yanks). He's definately speaking English, but you can't understand a word of it from all the slang and regional terms he's using. But if you pay close enough attention and get him to slow down a bit, you might be able to pick out what he's talking about. That's what Cityspeak's always been to me. Slang that's devolved so far that it's almost a second language and definately its own dialect.

The Abstruse One

[John Campbell]

Yeah, but it doesn't have any native speakers. I've not seen any indication that anyone's trying to resurrect it as an active language rather than a historical curiosity, either. I think Dunkie was just pointing out that the elves aren't as special as they think they are, not trying to reintroduce the Fourth World-era orkish language to active use.

[Abstruse]

But you just KNOW some Orcish policlub is going to latch onto an Orcish language and start speaking it as soon as they can to try to "rally the troops".

The Abstruse One

[Phaeton]

[John Campbell]

[Dogsoup]

[locomotiveman]

I've always seen it as like jive and ebonics, and other such languges, perhaps mixed together. Or Sprawl from Neromancer.

[Glyph]

On Johnsons speaking it, it depends. Most of them, even if they understand it, won't deign to actually speak it. To me, the whole point of a Johnson is to be this big, intimidating suit. They would go out of their way to show how corporate they are - they want the runners to be the ones who feel awkward, clumsy, and out of place in dealing with them. If they try to speak in the runners' lingo, that puts them at ease, and gives the runners back their home turf advantage.

However, I could see a double-dealing or deceptive Johnson using Cityspeak lingo if he was posing as someone more "street", like pretending to be an organized crime figure. I could also see a Johnson dryly interjecting some lingo if a runner does something like make a sarcastic comment in lingo and think it'll go over the Johnson's head.

[Fortune]

[Aidley]

QUOTE (Aidley @ Feb 1 2004, 03:30 AM)
thanks, for keeping a humble strine chicky entertained.

Most people won't get that. Hell, you'd be lucky if they pick up on the 'chicky' comment.

allow me to translate:

thanks for amusing the australian female. (who understands the term 'swing' but not it's useage in relation to the topic)