Drakes and Cyberlimbs, How the heck does this even work damn it? O.o Options

[Stahlseele]

OK, so let's say we have a Character who has a Cyberarm or Cyberleg or even partial Limb in his Metahuman form.
What happens when he changes into his Drake form?

[Ancient History]

Is interesting hypothetical question.

[ Spoiler ]

Jokes aside, this hasn't been properly addressed, just like cyberlimbs for shapeshifters. Honestly, I could go either way on it. Since shifting is a magical process, there's no real necessity that the dracoform or human form has to try and match the animal form exactly. On the other paw, if a character lacks a hand or eye or summat else missing, it would sort of make sense that they would lack the corresponding part. <shrug>

[Ol' Scratch]

It's just like the Shapechange spell. The implant is paid for with Essence, which is the developers' super catch-all-get-out-of-jail-free bullshit card. If you can accept shapechanging magic, you just accept shapechanging implants since its all part of the target. Unless the developers come up with some stupid spell that totally throws that to the wind, like the idiotic Turn to Goo spell.

Translation: Handwavium.

[Stahlseele]

Is interesting hypothetical question.

[ Spoiler ]

Jokes aside, this hasn't been properly addressed, just like cyberlimbs for shapeshifters. Honestly, I could go either way on it. Since shifting is a magical process, there's no real necessity that the dracoform or human form has to try and match the animal form exactly. On the other paw, if a character lacks a hand or eye or summat else missing, it would sort of make sense that they would lack the corresponding part. <shrug>

For Shapeshifters, this is easy enough, as they have Regeneration in Metahuman form. Something which, to my limited knowledge, is not true for Drakes...

It's just like the Shapechange spell. The implant is paid for with Essence, which is the developers' super catch-all-get-out-of-jail-free bullshit card. If you can accept shapechanging magic, you just accept shapechanging implants since its all part of the target. Unless the developers come up with some stupid spell that totally throws that to the wind, like the idiotic Turn to Goo spell.

Translation: Handwavium.

I was afraid of that <.<

[Draco18s]

Cyber for a drake only works in the metahuman form. The handwavium is that it is "absorbed" into the body and rendered non-functional (eg non-existent) when the drake changes forms.

It would be silly to assume that every lost hunk of meat would effect both forms, or you'd waste 60 BP if you went out and got wired reflexes, or god forbid a cerebral booster. "Oh, I'm sorry, your dracoform doesn't have nerves anymore. You can lie there and I'll look up the rules on suffocation. Wait, didn't you replace your brain with a better bioware version? I'm sorry, you die. Instantly."

[Saint Sithney]

You could always think of it Shazam style. Billy Batson doesn't turn into Captain Marvel so much as switch places with him. So, the Dracoform exists on another layer of reality and it just switches places with the man.

[WhiskeyMac]

Well, pg. 75 of the Runner's Companion says:
Augmentations
Drakes can accept any augmentation, but only in their human form. These implants do not carry over to their dracoform, but aren’t expelled by the body—they simply disappear and their bonuses are not available while the character is in dracoform. There is no known augmentation currently available for dracoforms.

So I'm thinking that it just wouldn't work while the Drake is in dracoform, i.e. being replaced by the dracoform's leg/arm/hand/foot or if you like a dracoform leg/arm/hand/foot with a metallic sheen to it.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

OK, so let's say we have a Character who has a Cyberarm or Cyberleg or even partial Limb in his Metahuman form.
What happens when he changes into his Drake form?

Penny Arcade already answered that for you.

[Ravor]

Meh, simply saying "It's Magic" without any backing logic and expecting it to carry water is a cope out for the weak.

[Ol' Scratch]

Eh. It works just fine by the standard "paid for essence" in-game rule. The magic used to transform the drake is independent of any augmentations, just like it doesn't necessarily carry over tattoos, hair color, or anything else that's an integral part of the drake's humanoid form. Since it was paid for with essence, the magic can't distinguish it from his natural flesh. However, the process turns him into something new, so such artificial-but-paid-for augmentations are ignored stat-wise for whatever reason.

It's other spells and abilities, such as the aforementioned Turn to Goo, that break the in-game rules and logic.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Meh, simply saying "It's Magic" without any backing logic and expecting it to carry water is a cope out for the weak.

Thank you, you just killed yhe joke... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

It's wasn't a very good joke to begin with to be fair. Personally I'm pretty draconian (heh) and would say that the cyberware is violently rejected by their body when they tranform. Arn't drakes required to have deltaware or is that just shifters? I do understand that the above view is not canon, but I think there should be a price of power.

[Ravor]

I let the stupid joke slide in the other thread where it appeared and but it lost enough of its polish that I couldn't let it go a second time.

[Draco18s]

It's wasn't a very good joke to begin with to be fair. Personally I'm pretty draconian (heh) and would say that the cyberware is violently rejected by their body when they tranform.

But Drakes don't regenerate, at all. Not even in dracoform. They aren't growing new flesh, per say, they're transforming. How cyberware "transforms" into drake-flesh is a question that can't be answered. Deal with it.

Forcing drakes to need deltaware takes an already weakened character concept (anything you can do as a drake you can do better as a troll) and making them spend more BP on better 'ware (and I'd like to point out that drakes shouldn't be getting 'ware in the first place, they should be augmenting their abilities with magic either as spells or Adept powers).

[Stahlseele]

anything you can do as a drake you can do better as a troll

Flying? O.o

[TeknoDragon]

Flying? O.o

Briefly. Then comes the sudden stop at street level...

[Doc Byte]

It's wasn't a very good joke to begin with to be fair. Personally I'm pretty draconian (heh) and would say that the cyberware is violently rejected by their body when they tranform. Arn't drakes required to have deltaware or is that just shifters? I do understand that the above view is not canon, but I think there should be a price of power.

What power? If my cyber-mage-latent-drake should ever awake, he'll be much weaker as a drake than as a human. He'll lose most of his cyber-enhanced senses to begin with. (Including internal Comlink and GPS.) The drake form even loses two points of agility. Not speaking of his other bio- and genware. And I don't know if natural weapons and elemantal (sound) attack outmatch a weaponfocus (3) cyberspur and a light cybergun with s-n-s ammo. - Well, of course he'll be able to breath water. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Draco18s]

Flying? O.o

Because as we all know flying is oh so important. You want a flying troll? SURGE. It'll cost you fewer BP than becoming a drake.
My last (and first) drake character never went into his dracoform. I was saving it for a special occasion which never came up.

The other problem is that in dracoform you don't have any armor. Even with 4 points (!!!) of adept power points invested, you still only rise to a meager 12/12 armor (unclear if its 4/4 hardened + 8/8 normal* or 12/12 hardened). Total cost: 90 BP. I should note that if you want your drake to have more than 1 initiative pass in both forms you have to spend the 2/3/5 power points doing it (or whatever the new costs are), which raises your total BP expenditure to 110 (magic 6: 2 init passes, 12/12 armor or 3 passes and 10/10 armor).

90 BP invested into a base troll (aside from stats, as we can assume you spend the full 200 stat BP on both characters; the troll still comes out ahead where it matters: body, agility, and reaction) goes so much farther than 12/12 armor (full body armor with a helmet gets you a total of 12/10 for 2 BP, add cyber for armored limbs + initiative passes, costing far far less than 88 BP).

*Not to mention how that works against damage. Obviously 3 damage bounces off and 13 does physical, but does 5 deal stun? What about 9 damage?
One's even magical in nature that effectively exists above the drake's scales. Do we scale the damage down rolling 8 dice, then compare the remainder against the 4/4 hardened (and roll 4 more dice, if necessary)? Or do we compare the damage against 4 and 8 or 4 and 12? (none, stun, physical)

[Ravor]

Draco18s although personally I'm not sure that I agree with the bullshit about cyber becoming inactive in Drakeform, we know exactly why cyber transforms along with any shapehifting magic so it's not a mystery or anything.

[Draco18s]

Draco18s although personally I'm not sure that I agree with the bullshit about cyber becoming inactive in Drakeform, we know exactly why cyber transforms along with any shapehifting magic so it's not a mystery or anything.

I'm taking this as slightly hostile, but I don't think that was intended.
First off, I never said I agreed with it either.
Second, I never said we didn't know why, I said we don't know how (where does the chrome go? It obviously goes somewhere or is transmuted into something else, etc.). Mechanics, not rationalization (the chrome disappears for game balance reasons,* even though such a limitation is actually a detriment).

*And possibly the "no one knows how to put cyber in a dragon"** thing.
**Except Haesslich, who only ever got a datajack, and whom I miss.

[Stahlseele]

Haesslich?
Not eliohan?
The Cyberdragon in Wales?
Transys Neuronet?

[Draco18s]

Haesslich?
Not eliohan?
The Cyberdragon in Wales?
Transys Neuronet?

My mistake, I remember Haesslich's name*, but liked Eliohann (2 N's) for the cyber.
Whee, I get confused sometimes.

*Probably because I wrote his wiki entry after reading Never Deal with a Dragon.

[Tachi]

My mistake, I remember Haesslich's name*, but liked Eliohann (2 N's) for the cyber.
Whee, I get confused sometimes.

*Probably because I wrote his wiki entry after reading Never Deal with a Dragon.

Didn't Eliohan(SP?) have some 'issues' because of that Datajack? I remember that he did, but, I can't remember what those issues were.

[Draco18s]

Didn't Eliohan(SP?) have some 'issues' because of that Datajack? I remember that he did, but, I can't remember what those issues were.

Listed as split personality disorder. He went nucking futs when he experienced simsense.

IIRC, there was a campaign associated with it, but I didn't read most of it, the intro indicated that he didn't even remember his own name. He also had ADD on steroids (would stop talking to the PCs in the middle of sentences to watch one of his half dozen TVs).

[Tachi]

Listed as split personality disorder. He went nucking futs when he experienced simsense.

IIRC, there was a campaign associated with it, but I didn't read most of it, the intro indicated that he didn't even remember his own name. He also had ADD on steroids (would stop talking to the PCs in the middle of sentences to watch one of his half dozen TVs).

Wow, note to self: Dual natured creatures in the Matrix = Bad Things^TM.