Building a Street Samurai:, Equipping an Ogre Street Samurai Options

[Ol' Scratch]

Unless another house rule is in play, you need a license for each piece of equipment as far as I know.

Regardless, you're a shadowrunner. Don't get caught and you won't have to worry about licenses or legality. You're a professional criminal for Christ's sake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Generic_PC]

Another house rule is in play. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So, the FN HAR is awesome and ready to be modded? What kinds of mods am I looking for?

[Kerenshara]

Unless another house rule is in play, you need a license for each piece of equipment as far as I know.

Regardless, you're a shadowrunner. Don't get caught and you won't have to worry about licenses or legality. You're a professional criminal for Christ's sake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Go back and read my thread, Doc. I'm "pink" enough to just worry about one per "class" of item, generally.

One to "own and possess Restricted firearms"
One to "conceal a lethal weapon"
One to operate a vehicle (included in a fake ID)
One to possess explosives
One to possess restricted medical devices and pharmecuticals
One to "register" cyberware
One to possess restricted chemicals and compounds of a non-medical nature.

Generally, most of the "R" stuff (armor and ammo) is a check at purchase as far as I'm concerned.

[Ol' Scratch]

Another house rule is in play. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Then just blow another mind-boggling 400¥ on another rating 4 license. Oh noes, not 400¥! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So, the FN HAR is awesome and ready to be modded? What kinds of mods am I looking for?

Accessories: Internal Smartgun System, Skinlink, Sling, Sound Suppresser (replaces default Gas-Vent)
Modifications: Auto-Adjusting Underbarrel Weight [2 slots], Electronic Firing [2 slots], Extended Clip: Drum [2 slots]

That gives you a -5 dice pool on Perception Tests to hear the weapon firing, 4 points of recoil compensation, and 50- (+8 total Concealability) or 100-round (+10 total Concealability) drums. If you don't care about sound suppression, just keep the default Gas Vent for a total of 6 points of recoil compensation. And if you don't care about the ammo capacity so much, drop it down to Extended Clip [1 slot] which gives you a +25% bonus to the normal clip size and no concealability modifer (so +6 Concealability). That option also gives you one more modification slot to play with. You could add in Custom Look 2 to get a +2 dice pool modifier on any Intimidation tests you make, or Gecko Grip to make it all but impossible to disarm you, or any other of the myriad options.

Assault Rifles just aren't big on the whole concealability thing, so don't bother trying unless you're hiding it somewhere. And if you are hiding it somewhere, its Concealability doesn't really matter so much as the hiding place does. Like, say, a Smuggling Compartment in a vehicle.

[Kerenshara]

And yes, 7P/-2 AP makes it ungodly better than an Ares Alpha. That's better than medium machine guns (completely negating your need for a Heavy Weapon unless you want to somehow get a HMG or Rocket Launcher or something), and they don't get to use a sound suppresser whereas an assault rifle does. Throw on the Extended Clip: Drum design option and it is completely and utterly better than one except for mildly shorter range (which doesn't matter much in urban combat, especially with Vision Magnification). Except for the lack of a grenade launcher, yeah, I'd say that's better than an Ares Alpha. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But that's just looking at a single house rule while ignoring any others that may be in play. Even the 2 free points of recoil compensation that the Alpha has (but you give up by using a suppresser instead of the default gas-vent) can be negated by taking an Auto-Adjusting Underbarrel Weight, which you can easily do since you don't have a grenade launcher to worry about.

If you're carrying one of those around with you on a regular basis, for a sidearm I'd go with something highly concealable. The Ares Light Fire 70 is really nice. It has the advantages of a Light Pistol (-2 Concealability) plus its custom silencer gives you a total -5 dice pool modifier on Perception Tests to detect its firing. Give it the Electronic Firing modification. Combine that with a Concealable Holser under your Mortimer coat and that's a total of -6 Concealability and -6 dice pool on the Perception Tests for firing. Load it up with Stick-and-Shock rounds and you're pretty set. Heck, you could give up the extra -1 dice pool modifier by switching to a Sound Suppresser and instead give it BF capabilities with the Firing Selection Change option if you really wanted that extra punch. Toss on an Underbarrel Weight as an accessory and it has 2 points of recoil compensation... which is a pretty nice compensation for that loss on the Perception Test. Especially if you want to switch to EX Explosive or AV/APDS ammo for whatever reason.

Even without the house rules, all of the design options in the game make Automatics a far superior skill to Heavy Weapons as far as actual firearms go. Especially as far as recoil compensation goes. Heavy Weapons is only good for grenade launchers and that sort of thing. And, personally, I think lobbing grenades manually is a lot cooler and more flavorable than using an underbarrel (or separate) grenade launcher.

OK, problems with that analysis, Doc.

7/-2 is half way between a MMG and a HMG.

You can't use a belt, which is vital for sustained fire - notice the small magazine, even with extensions. If you go with a drum, now you've got a honking item that you can't maneuver as effectively. MMGs and such also tend to have pretty sweet recoil compensation.

(goes over and looks at the MMG, because they thought it was 7/-2 as well.)

Now, besides the actual CrunchyBits^TM, subjectively, the thing just isn't designed for sustained fire, nor can it maintain it as accurately. Essentially, what I did was say average assault rifles (Light Rifle Ammo) are equivalent to 6.5mm Grendel rounds, the HAR (Medium Rifle Ammo) is more like 7.62x51mm NATO - heavier, longer range, with better penetration. At the cost of weight, of course. Heavy rifle Ammo (.460 WBM and the equivalent) goes to things like sniper rifles. X Rifle Ammo (Xtra-Heavy) is the realm of actual elephant guns and anti-material rifles (Barrett), half a step below actual heavy weapons. All the Heavy Weapons that use rifle caliber ammo have pretty good built-in recoil compensation, and that's the big chunk right there. SUBJECTIVELY, they're designed to keep up that RoF. The M-60 needs barrel changes under heavy use, but the M-240's a lot more resilient even though it uses the same round. If somebody decides they want to try to use an FN HAR as a full-up LMG, they're going to start running into things that make it clear that isn't how the weapon was meant to function. As they say "God giveth, and God taketh away".

[Ol' Scratch]

7/-2 is half way between a MMG and a HMG.

Right, which makes it utterly superior to MMGs and LMGs. There's really no point in having one as a runner. As a military gunner or some other occupation where sustained, long-term fire really matters? Sure. But not many things in the shadows are going to stand up to a single full burst. And even a standard clip for the FN HAR gives you three of those without needing to reload, or almost six long bursts. And if you just use a basic extended clip increases that to four full bursts and seven long.

So with just your house rule of 7P/-2 AP and a standard clip, there really isn't a reason at all to have a LMG or MMG for a runner. They can't be concealed at all (which isn't saying much since an assault rifle has a Concealability of +6 anyway, but at least it has a rating), and they can't use a sound suppresser. Both of which are BigDeals™ to a runner, whereas sustained long-term firefights are not. In fact, sustained long-term firefights are a BadThing™.

Course, I hate how SR4 has all but made it pointless to carry anything except an automatic weapon. Somehow, materialized spirits can shrug off a single round from most weapons, but for some reason if you throw a lot of those same rounds at them in a single shot, it penetrates their immunity without batting an eye. So while a shotgun or even a sniper rifle won't dent a high-Force spirit, an AK-97 chucking out a full burst can. But only as a full burst. /boggle

[Kerenshara]

I am thinking I am going to make the MMGs 7P/-2 same. I THOUGHT they were before. Dunno how I missed it. Oh, and sporting rifles with 7P damage codes are -2 AP. 6P rifles are -1.

An HMG is longer ranged, better at sustained fire, and has a marginally longer barrel improving penetration a bit more, so it still has advantages over the MMG, but face it:

In most hotspots, the MMG is actually the kind of the battlefield.

[Ol' Scratch]

I am thinking I am going to make the MMGs 7P/-2 same. I THOUGHT they were before. Dunno how I missed it. Oh, and sporting rifles with 7P damage codes are -2 AP. 6P rifles are -1.

Yeah, but thanks to SR4's rules, those rifles pale next to an automatic weapon, too. Especially against major threats that have hardened armor.

An HMG is longer ranged, better at sustained fire, and has a marginally longer barrel improving penetration a bit more, so it still has advantages over the MMG, but face it:

In most hotspots, the MMG is actually the kin[g] of the battlefield.

Yes, but again how often is a good runner going to be in a fight like that compared to smaller firefights? Who needs massive range when you're fighting in an office building or a back alley? Who needs sustained fire when a single burst is enough to take down most enemies? And the penetration is exactly the same between the two, so even that's right out. This really isn't a discussion about military applications on a massive battlefield. It's about minor skirmishes with an entire group of shadowrunners who are sneaking around and avoiding drawn-out fights as much as they possibly can. And in those situations, a concealable, suppressed assault rifle that does 7P/-2 is far and away superior to a loud, impossible to hide machine gun. And when it's not, have the rest of the team use suppressive fire with their weapons while you lob a grenade in.

I mean, heck, how many runners are going to run around with ammo belts, which is the big drawing point of a machine gun? Maybe on their escape vehicle, sure, I can see that. But that's more the rigger's domain, or a passenger who happens to have Heavy Weapons when the rigger or his drone aren't available to use it instead. But not for an actual runner on an actual run.

[Corgak]

Even without the house rules, all of the design options in the game make Automatics a far superior skill to Heavy Weapons as far as actual firearms go. Especially as far as recoil compensation goes. Heavy Weapons is only good for grenade launchers and that sort of thing. And, personally, I think lobbing grenades manually is a lot cooler and more flavorable than using an underbarrel (or separate) grenade launcher.

Unless of course that GL has the FA firing selection change... For when you absolutely, positively, have to kill every last mother(bleep)er in the tri-county area.

[Traul]

it's also free for many many players because it's unusual to end up with all 8 slots in rating 2 eyes used, but be over the 4 slots rating 1 eyes gives. (it's also only 1 slot.)

The Orientation system is Headware, it does not fit in cyber eyes. It fits in cyberlimbs, though.

[Jericho Alar]

So why do you think I can not do that with a commlink, AR and a GPS? Hell, today I know how far away stuff is at a glance because my GPS knows where I am and I can read a map.

In the future my GPS is wired directly to my brain, via my commlink, and my eyes are wired to actual computers and can with GPS assistance know where the mountain that I am looking at is.

And yeah, how is this in any way better than a trauma damper

everyone who recommended one stuck it in an essence free capacity slot on an item that was at 7/8 capacity. it literally cost *just* money. and it's cheap as hell too.

I suspect we may be thinking of different uses for it too (In an environment like a forest I'd much rather have literal overlay versus having to do the translations myself), ultimately 'all' it does is take your gps/mapsoft and rotate/translate map it to your actual vision, as opposed to displaying a map. whether or not you think that's worth it is another story of course; but for around 1k nuyen and 0 essence, I'll take the rule of cool + possible other GM discretionary benefits for having one; it's hardly the first piece of cyberware that didn't confer a precise numerical bonus.

[Ol' Scratch]

everyone who recommended one stuck it in an essence free capacity slot on an item that was at 7/8 capacity. it literally cost *just* money. and it's cheap as hell too.

<scrolls up to find the last recommendation of one>

* Enhanced Senses
Cybereyes 3, Cyberears 1, Attention Coprocessor, Orientation System, Data Jack
* Enhanced Physical Performance
Muscle Toner 2, Muscle Augmentation 1, Synthacardium 3
* For Combat
Trauma Damper, Synaptic 1

Odd. I don't see a single cyberlimb mentioned there. Much like I'm unfamiliar with any cyberlimb with a Capacity of 8 unless you're talking about Bulk Modification, too. Because I know you're not talking about Cybereyes since an Orientation System is a piece of headware, not eyeware.

[Jericho Alar]

The Orientation system is Headware, it does not fit in cyber eyes. It fits in cyberlimbs, though.

You're right, actually. all instances where I list it as eyewear hereby withdrawn; - it should go in a cyberlimb if you install one at all, which makes it notably less useful. it does however provide a full +2 to navigation tests independent of whether or not you have a map or gps available.

Apparently I'll need to make some modifications to the SR4chargen excel sheet, since that was how I was double checking the build while away from my books...

[edit] yeah Dr. Funkenstein - mea culpa I was working off a secondary source (the chargen sheet) instead of a primary. I'd assume the other recommendation was too.

[Ryu]

Somehow, materialized spirits can shrug off a single round from most weapons, but for some reason if you throw a lot of those same rounds at them in a single shot, it penetrates their immunity without batting an eye. So while a shotgun or even a sniper rifle won't dent a high-Force spirit, an AK-97 chucking out a full burst can. But only as a full burst. /boggle

If you look at the table on pg. 150 of The Precious, no Autofire counts for defeating armor. The wording for Full Auto Mode does not mention that, unfortunately.

[Ol' Scratch]

Ooh, thanks for pointing that out for me. Really helps with something I've been tinkering with.

[Dakka Dakka]

A Synthcardium 3, for 30000:nuyen: is pretty much mandatory.

Why do you need it so badly? It only increases your athletics group. While +3 to (gymnastics)dodge is good it is still quite an investment. The other three skills probably come up only rarely.

[AngelisStorm]

But when you need them, you need them bad.

People like to make fun of Climb, but really, we ALL have watched the news (or Cops, if that's your thing) and seen the dude get run down because he apparently didn't take climb (and strangely, the fat cop did have the running skill. Go figure).

Batman has Synthcardium. So do Parkourists. I think that is enough said. (All the cool kids are doing it.) "After all, if everyone was jumping off a building, would you do it to? With Synthcardium^tm you can!"

[toturi]

But when you need them, you need them bad.

People like to make fun of Climb, but really, we ALL have watched the news (or Cops, if that's your thing) and seen the dude get run down because he apparently didn't take climb (and strangely, the fat cop did have the running skill. Go figure).

Batman has Synthcardium. So do Parkourists. I think that is enough said. (All the cool kids are doing it.) "After all, if everyone was jumping off a building, would you do it to? With Synthcardium^tm you can!"

When you need them so bad, either use Edge(if your Edge is high) or burn Edge(for critical success).

Then you can jump off the side of a skyscraper and land perfectly safe while the corpsec pants,"That's impossible!"

[AngelisStorm]

A wise man once said:

"The world is made up of many fences."

[Ryu]

Why do you need it so badly? It only increases your athletics group. While +3 to (gymnastics)dodge is good it is still quite an investment. The other three skills probably come up only rarely.

Climbing comes up often once you stop thinking "straight combat" in firefights. The increase in possible jump distance is nice for the same reason.

Guards that are not augmented in a similar way will not be able to keep up with the agility (5)7 / athletics 4(+3) samurai. You pay 30k¥ for superhuman physical performance.

[AngelisStorm]

(And Gymnastic dodge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )