Can my spirits do this? /Stunned mage, Another spirits question Options

[Sheala]

Even thou I play the mage, i think the spirits are too powerfull.
Anyway, my mage, german woman Sonia is using them a lot with great results. But this mage also did not do her homework, and has no Levitate spell. And our runner groups one off possible escape router is jump throu windows and get down. But Sonia has no gecko gloves, climbing equipment or climbing skill whatsoever. {Read: I am a newbie). So, is it possible to use materialized spirit to carry her, or the whole group gently down ? Thru engulf power or else ?

The group objective is to kill a mage. I was sure than after killing mage his spirits will dissipate, but other player asked me, if the same happens if the mage is stunned. I am now confused (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) what happens with the stunned mage`s spirits ? I am sure I have read that the spirits stay, but cant find it now in rules.

Thanks for any help

[pbangarth]

Yes, a materialized spirit can carry people and other things, and all spirits have three dimensional movement capability, so you should have no problem ferrying people down from the window. It will, of course, cost a service. Take care that you don't use a spirit with Energy Aura active, otherwise the act of picking a person up might harm him.

Unless the opposing mage has poor relations with his spirits (through abuses, Spirit Bane or whatever), they should not cause him to suffer unduly if he is knocked unconscious. They would still perform the last service he required of them. Then, once complete, they would probably go back to their metaplane and wait for further instructions, should he become capable of giving any new orders.

So, if before he had been knocked unconscious he had ordered them to fight you, they would continue to do so even after he was incapacitated.

[Sheala]

Thanks a lot, Ill this post to my other players. Good point with the energy aura (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tisoz]

Yes, a materialized spirit can carry people and other things, and all spirits have three dimensional movement capability, so you should have no problem ferrying people down from the window. It will, of course, cost a service. Take care that you don't use a spirit with Energy Aura active, otherwise the act of picking a person up might harm him.

Unless the opposing mage has poor relations with his spirits (through abuses, Spirit Bane or whatever), they should not cause him to suffer unduly if he is knocked unconscious. They would still perform the last service he required of them. Then, once complete, they would probably go back to their metaplane and wait for further instructions, should he become capable of giving any new orders.

So, if before he had been knocked unconscious he had ordered them to fight you, they would continue to do so even after he was incapacitated.

Where did you see that all spirits get three dimensional movement? The only one in the core rule book I saw that came close were Spirits of the Air, which have the Flight Skill.

Astrally, yes they would be unbound by gravity, like any purely astral traveller, but materialized they follow the laws of nature like other characters.

[pbangarth]

Where did you see that all spirits get three dimensional movement? The only one in the core rule book I saw that came close were Spirits of the Air, which have the Flight Skill.

Astrally, yes they would be unbound by gravity, like any purely astral traveller, but materialized they follow the laws of nature like other characters.

Materialized physical forms are not subject to gravity, though most spirits (except air spirits) stay earthbound or close to it (perhaps floating or hovering).

So, if you want a spirit to move up and down, it can. In terms of what a spirit can carry, using the guidelines for lifting and carrying in the Skills section makes sense.

[tisoz]

So, if you want a spirit to move up and down, it can. In terms of what a spirit can carry, using the guidelines for lifting and carrying in the Skills section makes sense.

Thanks. I looked in the wrong section. (correct section - SR4.177)

[TheOOB]

It should be noted that spirits with a fly speed(and the fly skill), are much better and faster at flying, but yes, gravity is meaningless to spirits as they are not actually made of matter.

[pbangarth]

It should be noted that spirits with a fly speed(and the fly skill), are much better and faster at flying, but yes, gravity is meaningless to spirits as they are not actually made of matter.

Well.... when they Materialize, they are made of matter. That's why we can shoot them and beat them with pointy sticks. The flying Skill some have does make them much better at it than the others.

[LaughingGranny]

I don't have my books in-front of me. but i was looking into free spirit creation 2 days ago and something i read said. a spirit has no mass, when materialized it is an effect of their force that allows them to affect objects and do damage. so pbangarth, i would disagree with you, they are not made of matter, but mana. and are only able to interact physically by there will applying the materialize power.

[Ol' Scratch]

They're not made of matter when they materialize, they're made of ectoplasm that can look like pretty much anything you can imagine. It's mentioned in Street Magic in the beginning of the Spirits chapter. I think the subsection is labeled "Spirit Forms" or something similar. Considering also the Realistic Form power or descriptions of forms such as a fire elemental appearing as a pillar of flame (which I'm pretty is pure energy rather than matter)... yeah. Definitely not made of matter, though they can simulate it if they wish.

[pbangarth]

OK, the makeup of spirits is disputed by experts in the SR universe, and whatever they are made of, it is "...near enough [to matter] as to provide no physical difference." This is neither here nor there, though, as they can still ignore gravity.

[Neraph]

They're not made of matter when they materialize, they're made of ectoplasm that can look like pretty much anything you can imagine. It's mentioned in Street Magic in the beginning of the Spirits chapter. I think the subsection is labeled "Spirit Forms" or something similar. Considering also the Realistic Form power or descriptions of forms such as a fire elemental appearing as a pillar of flame (which I'm pretty is pure energy rather than matter)... yeah. Definitely not made of matter, though they can simulate it if they wish.

[ Spoiler ]

[rant]
Again, I agree with you on most points. Energy is simply another form of matter, and I can best explain this with the following:
E=MC^2 - Energy is equal to Matter times the Speed of Light squared.
C=<root of>E/<root of>M - The Speed of Light (or rather, Light itself) is equal to the root of Energy divided by the root of Matter.
M=<root of>E/C - Matter equal to the root of Energy divided by the Speed of Light (or rather, Light itself).

So really, Energy is simply matter that is moving really quickly, which is why burning materials (as seen best in Sol, our sun) are gasses that produce free-flying molecules, which we recognize as energy, as either proton, electron, or neutron emissions. And conversely, matter is simply energy in a state that is slow-moving, and movement is directly tied to energy and mass by velocity.

I may be a little confusing, but I'm tired, so cut me some slack. I really need to write a paper on this - I think it's pretty close to a Unifying Theory.

In any event, my basic differing point was that:
A) Spirits are not made out of Ectoplasm, since they are not stated as being such, although that is a useful tool to help our minds cope with this concept, and
B) There is no such a thing as pure energy being separated from matter, as energy is simply a form of matter at high speed/velocity. But again, a useful tool for trying to cope with this concept.

I would prefer to describe spirits as a Consciousness or Intelligence that is outside the realm of matter, but can descend to our physical plane, making a temporary physical materialized form in order to interact. This method of explaining it does a few things: namely, it comes closer to reality (not neccessarily the reality of spirits), as it moves spirits from the material plane and places them onto a different plane with different mechanics. If you notice, all creatures and people have matter, and some creatures and most people have intelligence. There's a definite difference, but this difference and the explanations thereof lie outside the realm of science (things that you can test, observe, repeat, ect.) and in the realm of philosophy.
[/rant]

All spirits, even those materialized, even those materialized without wings and possibly made of heavy materials, follow a different set of rules. They are not in fact made of strange materials like iron and metal, and all of them can fly, though some are trained in this ability.

And my explanation..? MAGIC!