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> Teleportation spells?
MrOramri
post Nov 16 2009, 11:54 PM
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I have been looking for some telepotation spells but cant seem to find any. Anyone know of any?
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Dumori
post Nov 16 2009, 11:59 PM
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No can't be done against all the laws of magic. Same with time travel.
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djinni
post Nov 17 2009, 12:01 AM
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I find it better to cite page references,
Street magic 159 side bar
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Dumori
post Nov 17 2009, 12:06 AM
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I don't have a book handy.
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Ascalaphus
post Nov 17 2009, 12:08 AM
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Teleportation doesn't exist, and shouldn't - it would ruin far too many plots. And indeed, time travel is even worse. Trust me, I GM Mage:the Ascension, I know how bloody dangerous they are.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 17 2009, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (MrOramri @ Nov 16 2009, 06:54 PM) *
I have been looking for some telepotation spells but cant seem to find any. Anyone know of any?

Other Place, provided you wait until the mana level rises more.

~J
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MrOramri
post Nov 17 2009, 12:56 AM
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thanks i just started playing and my friend showed me this site.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 17 2009, 01:43 AM
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I should clarify just in case you paid attention to my response instead of the others: Other Place is an Illusion (!) spell from Earthdawn that allows limited teleportation-like effects. As noted, at least the most recent two editions of Shadowrun and I believe more have explicitly stated that teleportation is not possible in Shadowrun.

~J
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Method
post Nov 17 2009, 01:45 AM
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... by magical means.
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Phatom
post Nov 17 2009, 02:02 AM
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Method I don't know about you but I for one find the idea of having every atom in my body ripped apart and the data of how they was taken apart stored and then have some atoms in the other local put together and hope the data didn't get messed up on the way to the destination not all that fun. So even non-magical means of teleportation are out as yet I would say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)
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Karoline
post Nov 17 2009, 02:22 AM
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QUOTE (Phatom @ Nov 16 2009, 09:02 PM) *
Method I don't know about you but I for one find the idea of having every atom in my body ripped apart and the data of how they was taken apart stored and then have some atoms in the other local put together and hope the data didn't get messed up on the way to the destination not all that fun. So even non-magical means of teleportation are out as yet I would say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)


Meh, the body is amazing at fixing itself, and a slight molecular imbalance would be quickly sorted out. The biggest problem would be the brain. You'd likely -always- come out of a teleportation disorientated as your brain had to start back up again.

Still, I think wormholes are the most practical form of 'teleportation'. We just need to figure out how to create sustainable ones and how to get our fat selves through them (unharmed).

Teleportation... I'd still be freaking late to classes, I just know it.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 17 2009, 02:28 AM
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The biggest problem is the Ship of Theseus. There is no clear basis for saying that "you", in any internally meaningful sense, are what comes out the other side.

That said, there's no reason to believe that the brain would need to "start back up"; the brain's active state is captured in its physical configuration, which is already assumed to be transmitted.

~J
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Jaid
post Nov 17 2009, 02:36 AM
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QUOTE (Method @ Nov 16 2009, 08:45 PM) *
... by magical means.

actually, i'm pretty sure the rule is that *sorcery* cannot teleport you. this leaves open a theoretical possibility that notsorcery™ *can* teleport you. for example, a metamagic technique or a summoning ritual, or possibly a unique enchantment.

(on a side note, in earthdawn there is also a nethermancer spell that allows you to teleport to a specific previously prepared location as well... other place is simply more versatile)
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Karoline
post Nov 17 2009, 02:38 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 16 2009, 09:28 PM) *
That said, there's no reason to believe that the brain would need to "start back up"; the brain's active state is captured in its physical configuration, which is already assumed to be transmitted.

~J


But you have the problem of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. You could know where all the atoms in your body are and freeze that information, but when 'starting you back up' they would be in different motions, which would mean that your current thought would almost certainly be lost. It could perhaps be changed though, you might start doing something odd as the signal that was supposed to go to your lung to breath instead goes to your vocal cords to say 'banana'.

I imagine temporary disorientation as your body gets itself back in order. All this assumes you've bypassed the mundane difficulties of recording the exact location and type of every single molecule in your body at once. Once you manage this, Chemistry changes drastically.
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Method
post Nov 17 2009, 02:45 AM
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I wasn't saying that teleportation should exist in SR or even that I would allow it my game. I was pointing out that the prohibition on teleportation in SR *specifically* refers to magic Sorcery. [edit- you are correct Jaid]

And I agree with Kagetenshi. Your brain, including all your memories and cognitive function at any given time are "stored" in the molecular configuration of the matter. In theory you wouldn't even notice the teleportation because to your perception there wouldn't even be a disruption in your thought process.

A more compelling reason not to have teleportation (of any kind) in SR is: what happens to the aura?

And haven't we been through all this before?
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Method
post Nov 17 2009, 02:52 AM
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The thing about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is that in biological systems (like the brain) the spin on the atoms doesn't determine whether or not a neuron transmits a potential or not. If [X] Na+ and [Y] K+ atoms are on one side of the membrane or the other the potential is the same. Your memory really is information stored in chemical form.
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nylanfs
post Nov 17 2009, 02:52 AM
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Yes we have, but go easy on him he's new, and not just a lurker like I am. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

BTW, welcome to the wonderfully wierd place that is Dumpshock, MrOramri. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Method
post Nov 17 2009, 02:57 AM
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Ah yes. Forgive me. Welcome to Dumpshock, Mr O.
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Maelstrome
post Nov 17 2009, 03:03 AM
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this is stretching it. capture a free spirit and use it as "material" to enchant a unique enchantment with metaplanar shortcut. thats as close to teleportation as you can get. keep in mind that you can only use it to go to places you have been before.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 17 2009, 03:08 AM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 16 2009, 09:38 PM) *
But you have the problem of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. You could know where all the atoms in your body are and freeze that information, but when 'starting you back up' they would be in different motions, which would mean that your current thought would almost certainly be lost. It could perhaps be changed though, you might start doing something odd as the signal that was supposed to go to your lung to breath instead goes to your vocal cords to say 'banana'.

You have that same problem when trying to put your key into the door lock at your house/apartment/car/office/whatever. The difference in scale makes it irrelevant.

~J
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Ol' Scratch
post Nov 17 2009, 03:17 AM
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Teleportation is possible in the Shadowrun universe, it's just no one has managed to develop it yet. But that has more to do with the mana cycle, probably, than a lack of effort.

Of course, it's not teleportation in the way people like to envision it. Instead, it's an advanced metamagic technique associated with astral projection/astral windows in which you take your entire body into the Astral Plane, travel to your destination, then hop out. Ghostwalker's obviously done it and I believe Harlequinn and Ehran have both been seen doing it, too. Though I could be wrong about those stupid elves.

The nice thing about is it that it could be incorporated into the game without too much worry from the Shadowrun point of view. There's all kinds of astral security out there to prevent astral projectors from snooping around and every single one of them would be just as effective against this type of teleportation. And if such a technique were developed, that type of security would be ramped up faster than you can say "overpowered."

It would ruin some of the feel of the game, however, which is why I'm glad it's not out there. But it's certainly possible 1) without becoming overpowered and 2) without breaking the rules of sorcery (which is what those rules are; not rules of magic).
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 17 2009, 03:19 AM
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There's also Other Place, which I mentioned above, which lets you walk into one door and walk out another door that's up to a mile away, and doesn't involve an astral sojourn.

Edit: though Netherwalking does have the advantage of actually having been spotted in canon Shadowrun.

~J
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Phatom
post Nov 17 2009, 03:23 AM
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Well the other issue is could a living organism survive the process. Just having every thing right when you get to the other side don't mean you well still have a living organism granted it would be a great way to transport non living items (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif) and its primary use would more then likely be in fact be what a system like this would be used for.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 17 2009, 03:27 AM
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Eh, we've already got microcircuits where quantum-mechanical effects genuinely do significantly affect the operation of the device; I don't see living beings as being any more difficult to transport (as mentioned above, we work fairly coarsely on the movement of whole ions and molecules, not on the movement of electrons). If you can move a modern computer and have it still work on the other side, you can probably move a human.

~J
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Ol' Scratch
post Nov 17 2009, 03:29 AM
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You just have to make sure no flies get all up in there with you. Bug spirits are bad enough. We don't need technological ones, too.
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