I have been looking for some telepotation spells but cant seem to find any. Anyone know of any?

No can't be done against all the laws of magic. Same with time travel.

I find it better to cite page references,
Street magic 159 side bar

I don't have a book handy.

Teleportation doesn't exist, and shouldn't - it would ruin far too many plots. And indeed, time travel is even worse. Trust me, I GM Mage:the Ascension, I know how bloody dangerous they are.

Other Place, provided you wait until the mana level rises more.

~J

thanks i just started playing and my friend showed me this site.

I should clarify just in case you paid attention to my response instead of the others: Other Place is an Illusion (!) spell from Earthdawn that allows limited teleportation-like effects. As noted, at least the most recent two editions of Shadowrun and I believe more have explicitly stated that teleportation is not possible in Shadowrun.

~J

... by magical means.

Method I don't know about you but I for one find the idea of having every atom in my body ripped apart and the data of how they was taken apart stored and then have some atoms in the other local put together and hope the data didn't get messed up on the way to the destination not all that fun. So even non-magical means of teleportation are out as yet I would say.

Meh, the body is amazing at fixing itself, and a slight molecular imbalance would be quickly sorted out. The biggest problem would be the brain. You'd likely -always- come out of a teleportation disorientated as your brain had to start back up again.

Still, I think wormholes are the most practical form of 'teleportation'. We just need to figure out how to create sustainable ones and how to get our fat selves through them (unharmed).

Teleportation... I'd still be freaking late to classes, I just know it.

The biggest problem is the Ship of Theseus. There is no clear basis for saying that "you", in any internally meaningful sense, are what comes out the other side.

That said, there's no reason to believe that the brain would need to "start back up"; the brain's active state is captured in its physical configuration, which is already assumed to be transmitted.

~J

actually, i'm pretty sure the rule is that *sorcery* cannot teleport you. this leaves open a theoretical possibility that notsorcery™ *can* teleport you. for example, a metamagic technique or a summoning ritual, or possibly a unique enchantment.

(on a side note, in earthdawn there is also a nethermancer spell that allows you to teleport to a specific previously prepared location as well... other place is simply more versatile)

But you have the problem of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. You could know where all the atoms in your body are and freeze that information, but when 'starting you back up' they would be in different motions, which would mean that your current thought would almost certainly be lost. It could perhaps be changed though, you might start doing something odd as the signal that was supposed to go to your lung to breath instead goes to your vocal cords to say 'banana'.

I imagine temporary disorientation as your body gets itself back in order. All this assumes you've bypassed the mundane difficulties of recording the exact location and type of every single molecule in your body at once. Once you manage this, Chemistry changes drastically.

I wasn't saying that teleportation should exist in SR or even that I would allow it my game. I was pointing out that the prohibition on teleportation in SR *specifically* refers to magic Sorcery. [edit- you are correct Jaid]

And I agree with Kagetenshi. Your brain, including all your memories and cognitive function at any given time are "stored" in the molecular configuration of the matter. In theory you wouldn't even notice the teleportation because to your perception there wouldn't even be a disruption in your thought process.

A more compelling reason not to have teleportation (of any kind) in SR is: what happens to the aura?

And haven't we been through all this before?

The thing about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is that in biological systems (like the brain) the spin on the atoms doesn't determine whether or not a neuron transmits a potential or not. If [X] Na+ and [Y] K+ atoms are on one side of the membrane or the other the potential is the same. Your memory really is information stored in chemical form.

Yes we have, but go easy on him he's new, and not just a lurker like I am.

BTW, welcome to the wonderfully wierd place that is Dumpshock, MrOramri.

Ah yes. Forgive me. Welcome to Dumpshock, Mr O.

this is stretching it. capture a free spirit and use it as "material" to enchant a unique enchantment with metaplanar shortcut. thats as close to teleportation as you can get. keep in mind that you can only use it to go to places you have been before.

You have that same problem when trying to put your key into the door lock at your house/apartment/car/office/whatever. The difference in scale makes it irrelevant.

~J

Teleportation is possible in the Shadowrun universe, it's just no one has managed to develop it yet. But that has more to do with the mana cycle, probably, than a lack of effort.

Of course, it's not teleportation in the way people like to envision it. Instead, it's an advanced metamagic technique associated with astral projection/astral windows in which you take your entire body into the Astral Plane, travel to your destination, then hop out. Ghostwalker's obviously done it and I believe Harlequinn and Ehran have both been seen doing it, too. Though I could be wrong about those stupid elves.

The nice thing about is it that it could be incorporated into the game without too much worry from the Shadowrun point of view. There's all kinds of astral security out there to prevent astral projectors from snooping around and every single one of them would be just as effective against this type of teleportation. And if such a technique were developed, that type of security would be ramped up faster than you can say "overpowered."

It would ruin some of the feel of the game, however, which is why I'm glad it's not out there. But it's certainly possible 1) without becoming overpowered and 2) without breaking the rules of sorcery (which is what those rules are; not rules of magic).

There's also Other Place, which I mentioned above, which lets you walk into one door and walk out another door that's up to a mile away, and doesn't involve an astral sojourn.

Edit: though Netherwalking does have the advantage of actually having been spotted in canon Shadowrun.

~J

Well the other issue is could a living organism survive the process. Just having every thing right when you get to the other side don't mean you well still have a living organism granted it would be a great way to transport non living items and its primary use would more then likely be in fact be what a system like this would be used for.

Eh, we've already got microcircuits where quantum-mechanical effects genuinely do significantly affect the operation of the device; I don't see living beings as being any more difficult to transport (as mentioned above, we work fairly coarsely on the movement of whole ions and molecules, not on the movement of electrons). If you can move a modern computer and have it still work on the other side, you can probably move a human.

~J

You just have to make sure no flies get all up in there with you. Bug spirits are bad enough. We don't need technological ones, too.

Assuming thats a question the answer is yes. For the same reasons I mentioned above. Baring the existence of an aura (which is real in Shadowrun) there is nothing magical about living matter. The configuration of the molecules is what determines whether the organism is alive or not.

As Kagetenshi pointed out tho, the more philosophical question is whether or not that organism is the same as the previous one.

I may just be a smartass GM, but if I were going to let my player use a teleport spell, it would be designed in the same style as Shapechange type spell. You get to your destination, sure. But your gear and clothes and all that don't. So, you're over there, completely naked and unarmed. Don't use it for an ambush, for example.

Also recognize that part of the original philosophical question is quite a conundrum is that our constituent molecules are replaced on a regular basis. Once a month, IIRC.

We are not the same individual as we were 60, 90, 120 days ago.

Or be a Materialization free spirit yourself and travel through the astral. Not instantaneous, but fast enough already.

For certain certainly-not-agreed-upon values of "individual".

Anyway, clearly Conjuring is the answer. Then you can have someone Summon you.

~J

Quite.

don't forget spirit portal, which is the nethermancy spell i was referring to.

Beat me to it

Astral Gateway?
That does allow for stuff to enter the Astral and maybe even Metaplane.
And there you can move at ZOMGWTF Speeds too. And then just leave somewhere else again.
Basically like Warp-Travel from WH40K.

There's allways means and ways to circumvent limitations. Bending rules without breaking them.
Technically, Improved invisibility, Levitate and Spirit Movement-Power could all be used too.

Correct. Although I would still strongly suggest that 'true' teleportation [travel from one point to another without crossing the intervening distance] not be allowed in any form.


Interesting idea. I don't like it for various reasons, but it could theoretically work.


For once, we actually agree. The End Is Coming!!!.

Regardless, I have actually designed [with some idea input from Dumpshock] this metamagic. For those unable to search the forums for it:





Another thing I should probably mention: In my game, we have a relatively new ruling (because it hasn't been relivant before) that any non-spell effect that causes a character to alter form (Shift, Mist Form, etc.), including the Astral Shift metamagic, allows the character to make a Charisma + Magic test while shifting. If they do, any objects they are wearing / wielding with an Object Resistance equal to or less than the Hits scored are subsumed into the new form, effectivly becoming non-funcitonal for the duration of the altered form, but resuming their positions when the shift ends.

Astral Gateway & astral rifts force a character to Perceive, & allow Projection. They do not actually allow you to travel on the physical.

Endowment (Astral Form) does - just it strips you naked, and also leaves Mundanes completely helpless, since they have neither Assensing nor Astral Combat.
And when the endowing spirit perishes, you simply drop back, no matter where you are.

Basically, it's a last resort kind of thing.

That actually sounds like a fair compromise. AFAIK non-living matter never enters the astral plane, so makes sense that stuff couldn't come with you. I'd imagine that foci would be a notable exception because they have strong auras, as well as any living things you had on you, so if your shirt was made of still living plant mater or something, you could take it with you.

What happens if the mage has a datajack?

Cyberware is paid with Essence and considered a living part of the body.

Yes, but if you are going to make distinctions it becomes a slippery slope, after all, objects can have an aura if they have enough significance. "What about my troll's lucky "home of the whopper" boxers and the handgun he's held in his sleep every night for the past decade?"

Sorry if that confused you - that is an official distinction.

It doesn't, I'm just painting out it is an official distinction that is internally inconsistent and how some players might use it against their gm.

Double post, sorry

No, it is not.

Any implant paid for with Essence has effectively become a living part of the individual.
Any object that has not been paid for with Essence is not part of the individual.

Not unclear. Not inconsistent. Not a House Rule.


I would suggest reading the rules before attempting to post bullshit like that.

To be fair there's at least two spells that completely ignore that rule. Petrify and Turn to Goo.

Yeah, those are pretty FUBAR - and most people tend to ignore that they ignore a basic law of magic.

Sympathetic links, if they are devoid of residual aura, how do they work? I may be incorrect but IIRC you can use a possession of the target for said purposes. We're discussing an ability that has been said to be impossible in the 6th world, therefor applying logic to interpretation of the rules seems to be needed to figure out exact limitations.

Occam's Razor still applies, though.

That includes just changing one definition at a time. So, no - just because Teleportation=no changes to Teleportation=yes, one does not need to revise other definitions...

Except that there is already the implication that objects that a person is invested enough in carry a residual aura, so if they do and you allow teleportation to be effective for a character with any degree of cyberware you need to be aware of the possibility of this issue coming up. That's all I'm arguing. If you are going to argue one fairly significant change to how magic functions in the 6th world it is a good idea to come up with a mechanism for this new aspect, and to look at it from multiple angles to see how it will affect your game world and saying what I have quoted here will not be a satisfactory answer at most tables I've played at because it smacks of arbitrary rulings.