Games Workshop smacking down fansites again Options

[Vertaxis]

It seems that Games Workshop is smacking down fansites with more copywrite takedown orders. This includes old, out of print, never to be printed again material that brings people into the hobby, and would indirectly net GW fans and cash on new purchases.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/28/games...shop-decla.html

Read the article and get the files on the alternate site before it gets a takedown order as well.

http://www.headlesshollow.com


There is a lesson here on how not to treat your fans and userbase. Just as White Wolf.


Edit: It's on Slashdot as well. http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/12/01/0...-After-Fan-Site

[Mr. Man]

Pulling a TSR, eh? Too bad for them it isn't 1997 anymore.

I imagine most Games Workshop customers are used to the poor treatment, but where does GW intend to get new ones?

I'm always amazed when hobby gaming companies pull stunts like this. Like: How is the RPGA even still around? It's been gutted so often by bad decisions from WotC that I can only assume it is now propped up by nothing more than the sheer name recognition of D&D.

[Wounded Ronin]

They probably were losing money because of the international economic crisis, took the easy way out by blaming fansites, and are now trying to sue their way out of the hole.

[Critias]

I'm no longer surprised by what GW does, and neither should anyone else that really follows wargaming. Since they went public and started worrying about keeping stockholders happy, instead of customers, they just became another douchebag corporate entity instead of the down-to-earth gaming guys I prefer to give my business to.

[DWC]

Pulling a TSR, eh? Too bad for them it isn't 1997 anymore.

I imagine most Games Workshop customers are used to the poor treatment, but where does GW intend to get new ones?

I'm always amazed when hobby gaming companies pull stunts like this. Like: How is the RPGA even still around? It's been gutted so often by bad decisions from WotC that I can only assume it is now propped up by nothing more than the sheer name recognition of D&D.

The RPGA is around because it is run as a marketing and promotions expense to sell more 4e D&D books. WotC learned almost ten years ago that it was more effective to make it free and use it to draw people into playing their games than to charge for membership and try to keep it afloat.

[Backgammon]

They probably were losing money because of the international economic crisis, took the easy way out by blaming fansites, and are now trying to sue their way out of the hole.

Actually, you can see GW's financial statements on their Website. They did pretty well thoughout the recession, just as all luxury goods brands typically do. If you've got 600$ to blow of miniatures, you are not the sort of person to be affected by blue collar job losses, you know. It's a niche market for above-average income people. These people always have money.

No, I don't think it's a cash grab, really. My guess is they want to keep a VERY tight reing on their products. They don't like discussion groups. They don't like fan creativity. They want you to get all your knowledge from White Dwarf. They want to control everything about their image. Why? No idea. Maybe the IP guys are permanently traumatised from the Blizzard fuck-up. Shit, I wknow I would be.

[Wounded Ronin]

Actually, you can see GW's financial statements on their Website. They did pretty well thoughout the recession, just as all luxury goods brands typically do. If you've got 600$ to blow of miniatures, you are not the sort of person to be affected by blue collar job losses, you know. It's a niche market for above-average income people. These people always have money.

No, I don't think it's a cash grab, really. My guess is they want to keep a VERY tight reing on their products. They don't like discussion groups. They don't like fan creativity. They want you to get all your knowledge from White Dwarf. They want to control everything about their image. Why? No idea. Maybe the IP guys are permanently traumatised from the Blizzard fuck-up. Shit, I wknow I would be.

A number of years ago a friend told me he thought that Games Workshop regarded adult gamers as troublemakers because they could argue with the company about game balance etc. instead of being stupid 12 year olds who would just go and buy every mini.

[Backgammon]

Can't really disagree. The Warhammer games break down when you play comptetively. I think GW has noticed this, and they have been promoting tournements and talking with people that play in tournements. Maybe they want to do something about it. Maybe not. I certainly think it's true they envision most customers as playing a few friendly games between friends and family, at which point game balance isn't much of a concern since everyone mostly just has fun.

[Mr. Man]

The RPGA is around because it is run as a marketing and promotions expense

Maybe, but my point was: Who's participating? Brass tacks: RPGA is about the fat loot, but the increasingly short lifespan of an RPGA campaign makes this less appealing. Today's fat loot will become a lame story that nobody wants to hear faster now than ever before.

I see RPGA is still running at some cons, but in my area that kind of semi-public play no longer exists post-LG. They tell me it is because there are no regional exclusives or premier mods in LFR and I see their point. Why should anyone go to a con or even a game day to play RPGA when they can stay home and play the same mod at the same time in their own basement?

So from where I'm sitting it looks like the RPGA has gotten to the point where it even fails at being "marketing and promotion" unless WotC is looking to break into the coveted moms, cats and imaginary friends market.

[Warlordtheft]

Maybe, but my point was: Who's participating? Brass tacks: RPGA is about the fat loot, but the increasingly short lifespan of an RPGA campaign makes this less appealing. Today's fat loot will become a lame story that nobody wants to hear faster now than ever before.

I see RPGA is still running at some cons, but in my area that kind of semi-public play no longer exists post-LG. They tell me it is because there are no regional exclusives or premier mods in LFR and I see their point. Why should anyone go to a con or even a game day to play RPGA when they can stay home and play the same mod at the same time in their own basement?

So from where I'm sitting it looks like the RPGA has gotten to the point where it even fails at being "marketing and promotion" unless WotC is looking to break into the coveted moms, cats and imaginary friends market.

From my perspective--RPGA fill the FLGS (both shops when they run the events. So it has not happened yet, of course YMMMV depending on the store and how active the gaming community is in your area.

[HANZO]

The problem is most of these companies get so big they loose sight of the fan base. Enforcing your copyright is one thing. trying to be elitist and be the only outlet/venue for fans is how games loose that fan base.

[etherial]

So from where I'm sitting it looks like the RPGA has gotten to the point where it even fails at being "marketing and promotion" unless WotC is looking to break into the coveted moms, cats and imaginary friends market.

I had a friend who had a Stay-At-Home-Mom D&D game Tuesdays at 11:00 AM. One mom would host, one would run, and the other would cook.

[crash2029]

I had a friend who had a Stay-At-Home-Mom D&D game Tuesdays at 11:00 AM. One mom would host, one would run, and the other would cook.

That is possibly the most awesome post I have ever seen.

[ravensmuse]

Maybe it's your areas. Here in Boston, I can think of three places off hand that run RPGA events that are usually pretty full (one of them in a public library, even) and out in Cincinnati, at least two stores there have weekly RPGA groups that play too. On another board with a very small roleplaying community there are at least six or seven people that are part of it. And I've seen the crowds for the Gencon RPGA, so...

I dunno. *shrug*.

On the subject of Warhammer, this blog post comes to mind from an older GW fan: Beardies and Grognards.

[Backgammon]

Interesting blog post. First, "Gronard" does NOT mean scrotum beard. I don't know where the fuck he got that. It means someone that grumbles a lot.

It's common knowledge (common enough to be on wikipedia) that GW invented games for the sole purpose of selling miniatures. That should basically set your understanding of their approach pretty well. They don't give a shit about anything else other than selling miniatures. So the games don't have to be balanced, no. They just have to exist. Frankly, as is pointed out in the blog, gaming is only one part of "The Hobby". All those countless hours spent painting gluing and modeling are not activities in the way of playing with your army. They are the point. The road is the destination. That's not a bad thing.

The description of their store operating procedure sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I see no problem with how they operate.

It's an interesting perspective on the Blizzard fiasco. I'm guessing the blogger has limited exposure to business practices. Staying away from related but non-core aspects of your business is a very, very common practice. Some companies are opportunistic, yes, but most are not. Their decision to back away from computer gaming was reasonnable business logic. In hindsight of course, they let millions slip away. But at the time of the decision, it probably seemed very sensible.

Anyway, I just got a Steam Tank for Christmas, and as I was assembling I discovered one of the side armour panels had a miscast, and has a huge hole in it. I called Customer Service, he asked me for the number on the back on the box, and told me they were shipping me a new one, and I could keep this one and do whatever I wanted with it. Just like that. So, they may be rough on fan sites, but they do treat customers very well.

[ravensmuse]

From what I know of the writer of the blog post, he's been involved in various positions in companies for at least the last ten years. He was part of the creative team for LUG(?) when they did the Star Trek and Middle Earth stuff, and now he works for Volition Inc, a video game company, as one of their creative directors.

I seriously am not stalking the guy; he's just open with what he's done and where he's been (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I also agree with his point that what GW does with their business isn't wrong, per se, but it is dickish. Using third party hobby stores as a thermometer for interest and then sliding in to push out the hobby store nets them a better bottom line, but it's on the same level as Wal-mart: pure Superman level dickery.

But I don't have a personal stake in this; the closest I'll get to mini-gaming is buying Privateer Press minis to paint and those rumored Cthulhutech minis they've talked about on their boards. I just know from the small brushes I've had with them and their fans that while their stores seem very clean and very professional, it really does give off that weird, Stepford sort of normal that freaks me out. Plus, every time we walked in there (myself and my girl) they were very intent on examining the cute female asking for greenstuff's backside. So, yeah.

But then, their store failed in our area, so...

[PBTHHHHT]

I just know from the small brushes I've had with them and their fans that while their stores seem very clean and very professional, it really does give off that weird, Stepford sort of normal that freaks me out.

You know, that really sums up my feelings of their stores, thank you, I couldn't really describe the feelings whenever I walk into one.

[Wounded Ronin]

You know, that really sums up my feelings of their stores, thank you, I couldn't really describe the feelings whenever I walk into one.

Well they probably do that to not alarm parents.

[PBTHHHHT]

Well they probably do that to not alarm parents.

True, the true source of a 13 year old' income. Gotta keep them happy. Maybe they won't be so scared about little Jimmy painting orcs and elves with the popularity of the Lord of the Rings films.

[Wounded Ronin]

True, the true source of a 13 year old' income. Gotta keep them happy. Maybe they won't be so scared about little Jimmy painting orcs and elves with the popularity of the Lord of the Rings films.

If the stores look really clean cut and professional it will minimize the extent to which parents have a fear in the back of their mind that their kid will become an unkempt underachiever because he painted minis in his youth.

[ravensmuse]

Like the blog post says, it would help other hobby stores to adopt GW's clean store policy. I know I groused about having to singlehandedly dust every single shelf when I worked in Blockbuster, but I appreciate it now. Some of these stores I've gone to - whoo! That's the least of the problem gamestores have, but that's a long post here in itself.

[PBTHHHHT]

Like the blog post says, it would help other hobby stores to adopt GW's clean store policy. I know I groused about having to singlehandedly dust every single shelf when I worked in Blockbuster, but I appreciate it now. Some of these stores I've gone to - whoo! That's the least of the problem gamestores have, but that's a long post here in itself.

Heh, very true, at least dust is the least of the things, sometimes smells can be a bigger factor, though the store can't help it if their customers are the ones that smelled, especially on some card tourney days.

Oh yeah, a while back I stoped by the Compleat Strategist in NYC while on a weekend trip, talk about an interesting store. The shelves was cluttered with stuff and... I was at a loss of where to start and I didn't have to time to just peruse, not with two female friends (non-gamers) with me at the time.

[Wounded Ronin]

Heh, very true, at least dust is the least of the things, sometimes smells can be a bigger factor, though the store can't help it if their customers are the ones that smelled, especially on some card tourney days.

What the hell is up with the smelly people? I never quite grasped that. I mean, I can understand smelly people if we're in the Middle East or some place where body ordors aren't as socially unacceptable, but in the US people are extremely sensitive to body odors.

[ravensmuse]

My favorite story, and I know I've recounted this one before, was when I was in a gamestore with my significant other, doing some impulse shopping. While I was paying, one of Those Guys was nearby and he spotted my girlfriend playing with a set of feather masks they had set up on the counter for whatever reason. Cue awkward conversation between him and her (entirely one-sided) wherein he explained how he heroically killed a red dragon using nothing but his wits and a Decanter of Endless Water.

What goes through your head to keep talking when someone is obviously not paying attention or cares about your 21st level warrior-mage?

[Godwyn]

Actually, you can see GW's financial statements on their Website. They did pretty well thoughout the recession, just as all luxury goods brands typically do. If you've got 600$ to blow of miniatures, you are not the sort of person to be affected by blue collar job losses, you know. It's a niche market for above-average income people. These people always have money.

That first statement really shows the lack of familiarity you have with people who play wargames. People I know that play have lost jobs due to job cuts. Others of us buy what we can when other expenses like rent and food are taken care of. Some of us have 600$ or more on miniatures because we have been collecting them for years slowly expanding our armies.

Who are "These people" that always have money. I know maybe one or two people that have an above average income that play. Thats out of like 2 dozen people.

IMHO D&D books are more expensive to maintain than an army. Shadowrun is up there also. Even 15$ for each pdf at the new prices, add in, core, augment, armoury, street magic, seattle, and one other, and thats 90$, thats near what it takes for the average force.