Military Forces in the 6th World, Force Composition Discussion Options

[General Ripper]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Being the inquisitive person that I am, I've often wondered how armies in the 6th world are structured from a practical standpoint. The modern battlefield has physical, matrix-based, and magical components that, if not addressed, could be significantly exploited.

Carrying over from a previous thread, the discussion is natural, where does these special assets come from?

I've got a couple of theories I wanted to float out there and get some feedback.

THEORY 1: US Army 1990's (pre-BCT) model. Mages and matrix personnel are composed into their own battalions or possibly even brigades based on specialization (hearkening back to the DIVARTY, or division artillery, assets of the '90's) and then assigned battlespace or called in appropriately (i.e., a squad of hackers are told they have Matrix jurisdiction for a certain infantry company)

THEORY 2: US Army current (BCT era) model. Essentially, there are fewer concentrations of specialists, but more overall specialists, distributed at the Brigade Combat Team level. One BCT would have, say, a platoon of mages to distribute as they saw fit and a company of hackers for protection.

THEORY 3: British SAS model. Every man on the team/squad has an individual specialty, but is also a combat badass. This seems an unlikely model outside of Special Forces/Special Operations communities due to the purported scarcity of mages and the difficulty of getting a guy immersed in the matrix to perform other options seems a stretch at best, since VR would definitely be preferable over AR

THEORY 4: Platoon or Company-level assets model. Basically, every company gets a mage. Every platoon gets a hacker. This seems somewhat probable on a practical standpoint (Theory 2 would inevitably lead to this under most commanders) but unlikely from an organizational standpoint, even though as I've said previously, it's harmful to keep a bunch of prime movers and shakers (particularly mages) sequestered away from the guys they're going to be fighting with.

Now, besides the issue of support troops, I wanted to address from a more ceremonial standpoint, what Military Occupational Specialty does one receive if they are magically attuned?

I've already assumed that hackers and riggers will be Signal, since that's who currently handles information operations and system maintenance.

But for mages, here's my personal belief: Heavily combat-based mages would probably be branched Infantry, with most other mages having their entirely own branch: Magical Operations.

Interested in your thoughts on all of this. I know this post has a potential to be overly-jargony, and for that, I apologize, but am more than willing to explain anything within the post.

[Jericho Alar]

If your Concern is specifically UCAS, I'd imagine that they would continue the BCT model, Mages would likely receive a new designation generally, dependent slightly on what they're actually good at (sorcerers might be given artillery designations for instance, mages specialized in healing arts would be medics, etc.) I wouldn't be surprised to see heavy use of a Warrant Officer type system in place for mages - a way to give them better ranks and pay grades without actually putting them in the chain of command unless they were qualified to be.

In general I suspect that most national military forces (as opposed to corporate military) are composed predominantly of S.A.S./Special Services and home defense, with little or no projecting force - home defense would be heavily matrixed up but would be shy on magic, S.A.S. would be basically as you described, although I would suspect that there would be operators at home who would function as VR specialists when feasible, and they would insert an AR hacker with some VR skill as part of the team. (In an actual combat situation an AR hacker is superior to VR by far.)

I don't expect many nations to maintain a military presence that requires the level of organization we see in today's units; even many of the centralized nation states like Aztlan ultimately are defended by the Megacorporate Paramilitary and not a national volunteer or conscripted force.


As for mages, they're 1% of the population generally, but they'd be somewhat higher within the military as it's one of the more obvious legit career paths for a registered mage (and one of only two that allows them to practice fireballs with any great regularity.)

[Method]

First I think you have to consider that there aren't any real super powers anymore, so Jericho's point about the lack of force projection is pretty spot on. There just aren't many large military forces left (large relative to what we see today). The exception used to be Japan, but they had to recall their Imperial Forces after the Ring of Fire erupted in the YotC.

The other thing you have to consider is that the real power players are the corporations, who control the U.N. via the World Bank. War is generally bad for business, so there are no wars in the Sixth World that don't benefit some corporation or the other. Major conflicts that would damage the bottom line are suppressed by means of U.N. Peace Keeping Forces, such as those in Jerusalem, for example. Again, this all means smaller militaries in general.

So most militaries would be roughly BCT model with a heavy reliance on force multipliers like air support, drones, spirits, etc. Magical and matrix support would be integrated at a company or platoon level. Those that have access to serious magical firepower (like dragons) would probably have those organized into support battalions similar to option 1. And most of the important operations would be undertaken by highly trained special operations groups.

As for the "low" percentage of magicians in the general population, you should note that 1% is not that low. Doctors make up 0.29% (thats 1/3 of 1%) of the US population aren't considered all that rare. Granted you don't have doctor in every company of the military, and the 1% figure in cannon is for all people with any magical talent (including adepts and aspected magicians), but Awakened probably make up a higher percentage of the military than the general population, as stated above.. But presumably all you need in a company or platoon is one or two guys who can astrally perceive, have a reasonable shot at killing spirits and ideally could counterspell, so some adepts or aspected magicians could fill this role. Again, the really heavy magical firepower would be things like dragons, free spirits and high grade initiates organized into support battalions.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Well, most registered adepts either follow a security/police/military path or an athletics path. And in the case of military, I'm pretty sure they would be enlisted in the Special Forces. I think that most officers would have a heavily-Matrix training, to better coordinate the Tac-soft, keep constant company-platoon communication and electronic warfare. Most "true hackers" would be designated into Intelligence/Counter-Intelligence roles, possibly with some major technomancy recruitment given their ability to "pull code from their digital asses".

[LivingOxymoron]

One thing to keep in mind too: With the decline of the nation-state in the SR world, significant portions of the national militaries are probably filled by corporate forces. I'm sure rank-and-file grunts, as well as interests especially sensitive to national security are still handled by citizens of the nation in question, but there are probably a lot of jobs sub-contracted out to the corps. When I first entered the Marine Corps in the late '90s, units of a certain size had their own supply warehouse that handled their own specialized gear, but also the standard gear for each of the Marines (Flak Jacket, ALICE packs, etc.). By the time I got to Camp Pendleton, I was surprised to see that supply, at least as it pertained to individual Marines' standard gear, was not only handled by a huge central location on base, but it was staffed by civilians in the employ of a private corporation.

To carry this forward, nations probably negotiate with AAA and AA megas to provide certain military support. Hell, with the power of the Megas in the SR world, this could even be part of negotiations, ie, the UCASAF's Federated-Boeing Eagles probably have a contractual requirement of the hiring of FB techs for maintenance. Ares, with its rep as the patriotic "American" mega, probably has their own military forces intermixed from the Company level (for cross-training their own recruits), all the way up to the National Command Authority (the President of the UCAS can call on Firewatch teams). Admin and Payroll are probably handled by A's or AA's specializing in those services, and so on.

No, on to the original point.

I was in the Marine Corps, so my view of organization follows those models, rather than the larger Army.

Magic:

More than likely its own MOS field with different specialties within that. The biggest question I have in my mind is "Are there any Enlisted Mages?" The answer is, probably not.

Its more than likely something similar to the Army's helicopter pilots. An 18 year old kid with little or no magical training, or an enlistee who is discovered to be magically active on the pre-enlistment physical, probably has an opportunity to go into some sort of Warrant Officer program. Training would probably be 2 years or so, focusing on practical applications of magic on the battlefield, and a generalized understanding of magical theory (what it can and can't do), in addition to common military skills. These kids probably go on to be Magical Advisors to Regimental level staff... I'm guessing part of the S-2 (Intelligence) shop. Alternatives would be Magical Investigators for the branches' investigative units (Navy's NCIS or Army's CIC), or for people with combat aptitudes, a Special Forces team.

There are also probably commissioned officers as well. The Warrant's provide generalized support to other fields, but if they want to specialize or have command over other magical assets, then they need to be commissioned. I'm sure that there are programs within the services for people who already possess a BS in Thaumaturgy, or those kids without who show high aptitudes with both magic and education. The former probably to to OCS, then the services' magical officers' school, the latter probably have an "RTOTC" (Reserve Thaumaturgical Officers' Training Corps) program where the services will send them to school at UCLA, MIT&T, etc, in exchange for service afterward. Jobs for these folks could be higher level commands, more than likely in their own office (G-11?), wherein they support other staff components, and oversee the Warrants at their component commands.

There are also, more than likely, whole units of mages at the service level who provide all kinds of support at the direction of the Chief of Service, CinC, or other National Command Level Authority.

Adepts are probably Warrant Officers or Commissioned Officers in whatever field they happen to be in. They are not always combat troops. I once made an Adept with points in things like Data Search, Photographic Memory, etc and gave him a background as an Intelligence Analyst.

Matrix stuff to come later.

[kzt]

It's hard to see how "everyone is the SAS" model works. The main feeder for elite units are line units. Once someone has handled a few years in a line unit you have a good feel for how they might work out. And more importantly, it's a lot harder to hide the fact that you are a dirtbag from your squad leader and platoon Sgt than it is from a recruiter.

[LivingOxymoron]

Not only that, most of the actual operators in units like the SAS, SFOD-D, DEVGRU, etc are veteran operators. When I worked as a recruiters' assistant, EVERY 18 year old wanted to "Be in Force Recon". Elite line units like the Rangers or Recon only take the best of the best as it is. The real operators are usually older, more experienced, and generally senior E-5's at least. Take Sam Fischer from the Splinter Cell, or any of the characters from the now canceled show "The Unit" as examples.

Elite Magical Operators probably have as least a BS if not an MS in Thaumaturgy, many years of service under their belts, and high degrees of mundane skills to boot.

It's hard to see how "everyone is the SAS" model works. The main feeder for elite units are line units. Once someone has handled a few years in a line unit you have a good feel for how they might work out. And more importantly, it's a lot harder to hide the fact that you are a dirtbag from your squad leader and platoon Sgt than it is from a recruiter.

[Jericho Alar]

You have feeders; they're just not force projection units. (being concerned primarily with home defense or U.N. Peacekeeping in joint operations with megacorporations.)

There's *plenty* of combat to test potential members in, it's just force projection is exclusively the domain of elite strike teams.

it might be more accurately described as the world as paramilitary intelligence agency than as the world as paraintelligence military battalion.

[General Ripper]

It's hard to see how "everyone is the SAS" model works. The main feeder for elite units are line units. Once someone has handled a few years in a line unit you have a good feel for how they might work out. And more importantly, it's a lot harder to hide the fact that you are a dirtbag from your squad leader and platoon Sgt than it is from a recruiter.

Agreed, I thought it was the least likely, but in a day where thanks to stuff like Modern Warfare 2 and the Rainbow Six: Vegas games, many people think you become an operator almost by default in the military, meaning it still could've been written in.

[General Ripper]

Double post, my bad.

[hobgoblin]

another thing to ponder is the number of mercenaries in SR, and also what effect shows like "desert wars" have on the availability of veterans.

[kzt]

another thing to ponder is the number of mercenaries in SR, and also what effect shows like "desert wars" have on the availability of veterans.

And where do people get the skills that make them marketable mercenaries?

[Jericho Alar]

And where do people get the skills that make them marketable mercenaries?

Presumably from Corporate Training Facilities / Cops / joining the Metroplex guard etc.

I'd expect a typical non-corporate spec ops career goes something like this:

ROTC/OCS-Metroplex Guard -> For hire Mercenary Group / Desert Wars / U.N. Peacekeeping -> Special Ops Training.

corporate of course would be trained within the corporate structure and would only be part of a mercenary group if the corp in question maintains one and would otherwise be involved in corporate force projection or Desert Wars at that step.

[kzt]

Presumably from Corporate Training Facilities / Cops / joining the Metroplex guard etc.

I'd expect a typical non-corporate spec ops career goes something like this:

ROTC/OCS-Metroplex Guard -> For hire Mercenary Group / Desert Wars / U.N. Peacekeeping -> Special Ops Training.

corporate of course would be trained within the corporate structure and would only be part of a mercenary group if the corp in question maintains one and would otherwise be involved in corporate force projection or Desert Wars at that step.

?? There is essentially nothing that you learn as a cop/security guard that translates to armored warfare in the desert. You'd do just as well only hiring journeyman plumbers. At least they understand hydraulic systems.

[Hero]

The national armies and mercenary companies would probably set up as they are now, there is no real reason for it to change much really as the way units and companies are configured. They are tactically flexible and like most have said already, if there is need for more specialized roles they can draw on a pool of enlisted specialist to fill such roles as needed. And one strength with how the US Army works or used to at least is how we generally bend the rules of our doctrines, the USSR even stated that the US Forces have a habit of disregarding rules and battle doctrines.

Magical Assets of the summoning and/or spell casting would be Commissioned, most mages or shamens for that manner usually go through some kind of higher education system or similar training program which from my understanding qualifies one to at least sign up as a commissioned officer. That and with arcane assets being very desirable to about everyone the army or any branch for the matter would want a big incentive to get them signed up, and being a officer is a pretty big one if you ask me. Phys Adepts would be enlisted like some here have already stated, having a edge most dont have without the need for pricey hardware the DOD can afford to give them a better pay rank from sign up or make them warrant officers.

Matrix and Rigger personal would probably be warrant officers too since there is more invested into them and like all assets they want to keep them on board as long as possible, have to at least keep them on the list for as long as it would take to pay for the VCR or expensive headware that deckers seem to enjoy alot...

And from a personal standpoint I dont see the Armed Forces adopting wireless matrix or other such stuff they added in SR4, mainly because Wireless Matrix is new and new stuff had not been ironed out. And how easy it seems for the technomancers to wreck havok with wireless martix that they would want there drones on a VCR network instead as it runs on a different standard, as much as they would love one standard for all there stuff that means that the other side does not need to have different kinds of countermeasures. Sometimes different standards for various kinds of systems is a good despite some added complexity to operations. I can see it now. Some new school hacker sees some drones buzzing around and tries to hack them but since they are still on a VCR Deck and using a completely different standard his tries are useless, and since he broadcasted his location the drones buzz in and kill the slot.

[kzt]

Actually DARPA is one of the key funders of mobile ad hoc network work IIRC. MANETs are really useful to organizations that expect to have very few trusted nodes they can connect to unless they bring them along. There really are no particularly good reasons for most users in the real world to implement the SR4 model of peer-to-peer, but the military is different.

Though the idiocy of allowing random users to execute code on your hosts probably isn't part of DARPA's plans..... Somehow I expect that they actually HAVE a security model.

[Jericho Alar]

?? There is essentially nothing that you learn as a cop/security guard that translates to armored warfare in the desert. You'd do just as well only hiring journeyman plumbers. At least they understand hydraulic systems.

SWAT? HTR? Docwagon generally? I'd assume Docwagon is hiring EMTs first and training them for combat, for instance.

sure the average mall security guard isn't going to cut it; but except for saying 'cops' once*, I don't believe I said anything about coffee and a nightstick security guards.

when I say 'corporate structure' I though it was obvious that I mean the standing militaries that (some) AA (and all) AAA corporations maintain (The guys actually involved in force projection in 2055-2072) and not their local security.


*to be fair the term is inclusive of mall security so I made the mistake there.

[hobgoblin]

ok, the way i envisioned it was this:

take gangers, civil war fighters, terrorists and others that may have had some encounter with violence.

they sign up for a round of desert wars or similar, get some basic training and if they survive they may end up signed with a merc group of some sort.

basically, the desert wars and such act as a live fire experience, testing ground for corp military products and as a trid gladiatorial show, all rolled up in one.

hell, it may even allow some to burn of excess hormones in a way thats unlikely to affect civilians much...

[Inane Imp]

One would assume that the Desert Wars corps have their own training programs. Almost certainly with a very high attrition rate: today maggots you get to learn how to be cannon fodder.

Actually, you can imagine the line infantry 'vet' of 6 months (an 19 year old sinless ex-ganger who was sold to a desert wars corp rather than get put in an overcrowded jail by a corrupt judge/penal staff, whose just earned enough for a move by wire-system and is applying for an elite/ish squad): he's sitting in the trench when a corp recruiter comes up to him with half a dozen green replacements... cue pretty any war movie.

[kzt]

Ok, that would work. But one of the reasons why the various high quality PMCs/PSCs get and keep the work is because they are hiring people who already know 90%+ of the job and are a known quality. Hence their people are really good at their jobs. Becuse they are hiring experienced people they don't have to maintian a vast training feeder that produces people with 10-20 years of experience, they simply hired them when they left the military or retired from USSS etc. Once they are training entry level people themselves either the costs explode or the quality goes through the floor.

And high quality at (relatively) low cost is why PMCs/PSCs exist. The reason why State loves BW and used them all over the world isn't because of who they are or the founders connections, it's because they have NEVER had a State Dept client killed. This isn't true of Triple Canopy or DynaCorp (which still have high standards for the people they hire for protective services contracts) . And it sure isn't true of the marginal ops like Custer Battles, which would essentially hire US mall cops and give them machine guns in Baghdad.

[Inane Imp]

Absolutely, that 'trainee' corp isn't the guys you hire when you want highly trained professionals. They're the guys you hire when the highly trained (and expensive) professionals need an expendable distraction. If you've survived a couple of those sort of fights, learnt a little, picked up some basic combat cyberware you sign onto a lower end professional merc corp. You learn a little bit more, you upgrade yourself some more and that uber-merc who's butt you saved in some hell-hole has gives you an AR card with a phone-number, you call it and apply for a job. Thats how you become an experienced but small fish in the big league.

So going to build that character concept.

[Method]

As a RL aside, anyone read the profile of Erik Prince in Vanity Fair? Quite interesting...

[FlakJacket]

Wow, and the author of that article isn't biased in the slightest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, most registered adepts either follow a security/police/military path or an athletics path. And in the case of military, I'm pretty sure they would be enlisted in the Special Forces. I think that most officers would have a heavily-Matrix training, to better coordinate the Tac-soft, keep constant company-platoon communication and electronic warfare. Most "true hackers" would be designated into Intelligence/Counter-Intelligence roles, possibly with some major technomancy recruitment given their ability to "pull code from their digital asses".

Just a note here... Officers would need the tactical knowledge, but is an enlisted man (in almost every case) who actually runs the communicatios networks of most military units (you might have some Warrant Officer slots here as well, but probably not at anything less than the Batallion Level)... so the Enlisted Commo would get the Tactical Network duties, not the commanding officer of the platoon/company/batallion etc.

Keep the Faith

[Inane Imp]

The line signal operator probably only has enough skills to do basic tactical EW, basic network security and basic network maintainence - it might actually be easier to just load up an agent and have the sig operator trained in getting the agent to do what the commander wants. Skill comparable to what we consider 'Hackers' in SR arn't going to be line signalmen; they're going to be Intel guys.

Actually, at BN level there is probably an Intello who runs a couple of hackers, a couple of divination magicians and the like.

Riggers are probably going to have their own platoon (part of the Spt Coy) with squads of different types of drones. Probably. Although each squad probably has a rigger as part of it as well, who runs the squad level drones (couple of roller balls, a small aeronautic drone, any automated weapon systems etc). I'd doubt this sort of rigger goes for full VR, rather probably runs most things by command / AR feed.