Ladies and Gentlemen,

Being the inquisitive person that I am, I've often wondered how armies in the 6th world are structured from a practical standpoint. The modern battlefield has physical, matrix-based, and magical components that, if not addressed, could be significantly exploited.

Carrying over from a previous thread, the discussion is natural, where does these special assets come from?

I've got a couple of theories I wanted to float out there and get some feedback.

THEORY 1: US Army 1990's (pre-BCT) model. Mages and matrix personnel are composed into their own battalions or possibly even brigades based on specialization (hearkening back to the DIVARTY, or division artillery, assets of the '90's) and then assigned battlespace or called in appropriately (i.e., a squad of hackers are told they have Matrix jurisdiction for a certain infantry company)

THEORY 2: US Army current (BCT era) model. Essentially, there are fewer concentrations of specialists, but more overall specialists, distributed at the Brigade Combat Team level. One BCT would have, say, a platoon of mages to distribute as they saw fit and a company of hackers for protection.

THEORY 3: British SAS model. Every man on the team/squad has an individual specialty, but is also a combat badass. This seems an unlikely model outside of Special Forces/Special Operations communities due to the purported scarcity of mages and the difficulty of getting a guy immersed in the matrix to perform other options seems a stretch at best, since VR would definitely be preferable over AR

THEORY 4: Platoon or Company-level assets model. Basically, every company gets a mage. Every platoon gets a hacker. This seems somewhat probable on a practical standpoint (Theory 2 would inevitably lead to this under most commanders) but unlikely from an organizational standpoint, even though as I've said previously, it's harmful to keep a bunch of prime movers and shakers (particularly mages) sequestered away from the guys they're going to be fighting with.

Now, besides the issue of support troops, I wanted to address from a more ceremonial standpoint, what Military Occupational Specialty does one receive if they are magically attuned?

I've already assumed that hackers and riggers will be Signal, since that's who currently handles information operations and system maintenance.

But for mages, here's my personal belief: Heavily combat-based mages would probably be branched Infantry, with most other mages having their entirely own branch: Magical Operations.

Interested in your thoughts on all of this. I know this post has a potential to be overly-jargony, and for that, I apologize, but am more than willing to explain anything within the post.

If your Concern is specifically UCAS, I'd imagine that they would continue the BCT model, Mages would likely receive a new designation generally, dependent slightly on what they're actually good at (sorcerers might be given artillery designations for instance, mages specialized in healing arts would be medics, etc.) I wouldn't be surprised to see heavy use of a Warrant Officer type system in place for mages - a way to give them better ranks and pay grades without actually putting them in the chain of command unless they were qualified to be.

In general I suspect that most national military forces (as opposed to corporate military) are composed predominantly of S.A.S./Special Services and home defense, with little or no projecting force - home defense would be heavily matrixed up but would be shy on magic, S.A.S. would be basically as you described, although I would suspect that there would be operators at home who would function as VR specialists when feasible, and they would insert an AR hacker with some VR skill as part of the team. (In an actual combat situation an AR hacker is superior to VR by far.)

I don't expect many nations to maintain a military presence that requires the level of organization we see in today's units; even many of the centralized nation states like Aztlan ultimately are defended by the Megacorporate Paramilitary and not a national volunteer or conscripted force.


As for mages, they're 1% of the population generally, but they'd be somewhat higher within the military as it's one of the more obvious legit career paths for a registered mage (and one of only two that allows them to practice fireballs with any great regularity.)

First I think you have to consider that there aren't any real super powers anymore, so Jericho's point about the lack of force projection is pretty spot on. There just aren't many large military forces left (large relative to what we see today). The exception used to be Japan, but they had to recall their Imperial Forces after the Ring of Fire erupted in the YotC.

The other thing you have to consider is that the real power players are the corporations, who control the U.N. via the World Bank. War is generally bad for business, so there are no wars in the Sixth World that don't benefit some corporation or the other. Major conflicts that would damage the bottom line are suppressed by means of U.N. Peace Keeping Forces, such as those in Jerusalem, for example. Again, this all means smaller militaries in general.

So most militaries would be roughly BCT model with a heavy reliance on force multipliers like air support, drones, spirits, etc. Magical and matrix support would be integrated at a company or platoon level. Those that have access to serious magical firepower (like dragons) would probably have those organized into support battalions similar to option 1. And most of the important operations would be undertaken by highly trained special operations groups.

As for the "low" percentage of magicians in the general population, you should note that 1% is not that low. Doctors make up 0.29% (thats 1/3 of 1%) of the US population aren't considered all that rare. Granted you don't have doctor in every company of the military, and the 1% figure in cannon is for all people with any magical talent (including adepts and aspected magicians), but Awakened probably make up a higher percentage of the military than the general population, as stated above.. But presumably all you need in a company or platoon is one or two guys who can astrally perceive, have a reasonable shot at killing spirits and ideally could counterspell, so some adepts or aspected magicians could fill this role. Again, the really heavy magical firepower would be things like dragons, free spirits and high grade initiates organized into support battalions.

Well, most registered adepts either follow a security/police/military path or an athletics path. And in the case of military, I'm pretty sure they would be enlisted in the Special Forces. I think that most officers would have a heavily-Matrix training, to better coordinate the Tac-soft, keep constant company-platoon communication and electronic warfare. Most "true hackers" would be designated into Intelligence/Counter-Intelligence roles, possibly with some major technomancy recruitment given their ability to "pull code from their digital asses".

One thing to keep in mind too: With the decline of the nation-state in the SR world, significant portions of the national militaries are probably filled by corporate forces. I'm sure rank-and-file grunts, as well as interests especially sensitive to national security are still handled by citizens of the nation in question, but there are probably a lot of jobs sub-contracted out to the corps. When I first entered the Marine Corps in the late '90s, units of a certain size had their own supply warehouse that handled their own specialized gear, but also the standard gear for each of the Marines (Flak Jacket, ALICE packs, etc.). By the time I got to Camp Pendleton, I was surprised to see that supply, at least as it pertained to individual Marines' standard gear, was not only handled by a huge central location on base, but it was staffed by civilians in the employ of a private corporation.

To carry this forward, nations probably negotiate with AAA and AA megas to provide certain military support. Hell, with the power of the Megas in the SR world, this could even be part of negotiations, ie, the UCASAF's Federated-Boeing Eagles probably have a contractual requirement of the hiring of FB techs for maintenance. Ares, with its rep as the patriotic "American" mega, probably has their own military forces intermixed from the Company level (for cross-training their own recruits), all the way up to the National Command Authority (the President of the UCAS can call on Firewatch teams). Admin and Payroll are probably handled by A's or AA's specializing in those services, and so on.

No, on to the original point.

I was in the Marine Corps, so my view of organization follows those models, rather than the larger Army.

Magic:

More than likely its own MOS field with different specialties within that. The biggest question I have in my mind is "Are there any Enlisted Mages?" The answer is, probably not.

Its more than likely something similar to the Army's helicopter pilots. An 18 year old kid with little or no magical training, or an enlistee who is discovered to be magically active on the pre-enlistment physical, probably has an opportunity to go into some sort of Warrant Officer program. Training would probably be 2 years or so, focusing on practical applications of magic on the battlefield, and a generalized understanding of magical theory (what it can and can't do), in addition to common military skills. These kids probably go on to be Magical Advisors to Regimental level staff... I'm guessing part of the S-2 (Intelligence) shop. Alternatives would be Magical Investigators for the branches' investigative units (Navy's NCIS or Army's CIC), or for people with combat aptitudes, a Special Forces team.

There are also probably commissioned officers as well. The Warrant's provide generalized support to other fields, but if they want to specialize or have command over other magical assets, then they need to be commissioned. I'm sure that there are programs within the services for people who already possess a BS in Thaumaturgy, or those kids without who show high aptitudes with both magic and education. The former probably to to OCS, then the services' magical officers' school, the latter probably have an "RTOTC" (Reserve Thaumaturgical Officers' Training Corps) program where the services will send them to school at UCLA, MIT&T, etc, in exchange for service afterward. Jobs for these folks could be higher level commands, more than likely in their own office (G-11?), wherein they support other staff components, and oversee the Warrants at their component commands.

There are also, more than likely, whole units of mages at the service level who provide all kinds of support at the direction of the Chief of Service, CinC, or other National Command Level Authority.

Adepts are probably Warrant Officers or Commissioned Officers in whatever field they happen to be in. They are not always combat troops. I once made an Adept with points in things like Data Search, Photographic Memory, etc and gave him a background as an Intelligence Analyst.

Matrix stuff to come later.

It's hard to see how "everyone is the SAS" model works. The main feeder for elite units are line units. Once someone has handled a few years in a line unit you have a good feel for how they might work out. And more importantly, it's a lot harder to hide the fact that you are a dirtbag from your squad leader and platoon Sgt than it is from a recruiter.

Not only that, most of the actual operators in units like the SAS, SFOD-D, DEVGRU, etc are veteran operators. When I worked as a recruiters' assistant, EVERY 18 year old wanted to "Be in Force Recon". Elite line units like the Rangers or Recon only take the best of the best as it is. The real operators are usually older, more experienced, and generally senior E-5's at least. Take Sam Fischer from the Splinter Cell, or any of the characters from the now canceled show "The Unit" as examples.

Elite Magical Operators probably have as least a BS if not an MS in Thaumaturgy, many years of service under their belts, and high degrees of mundane skills to boot.

You have feeders; they're just not force projection units. (being concerned primarily with home defense or U.N. Peacekeeping in joint operations with megacorporations.)

There's *plenty* of combat to test potential members in, it's just force projection is exclusively the domain of elite strike teams.

it might be more accurately described as the world as paramilitary intelligence agency than as the world as paraintelligence military battalion.

Agreed, I thought it was the least likely, but in a day where thanks to stuff like Modern Warfare 2 and the Rainbow Six: Vegas games, many people think you become an operator almost by default in the military, meaning it still could've been written in.

Double post, my bad.

another thing to ponder is the number of mercenaries in SR, and also what effect shows like "desert wars" have on the availability of veterans.

And where do people get the skills that make them marketable mercenaries?

Presumably from Corporate Training Facilities / Cops / joining the Metroplex guard etc.

I'd expect a typical non-corporate spec ops career goes something like this:

ROTC/OCS-Metroplex Guard -> For hire Mercenary Group / Desert Wars / U.N. Peacekeeping -> Special Ops Training.

corporate of course would be trained within the corporate structure and would only be part of a mercenary group if the corp in question maintains one and would otherwise be involved in corporate force projection or Desert Wars at that step.

?? There is essentially nothing that you learn as a cop/security guard that translates to armored warfare in the desert. You'd do just as well only hiring journeyman plumbers. At least they understand hydraulic systems.

The national armies and mercenary companies would probably set up as they are now, there is no real reason for it to change much really as the way units and companies are configured. They are tactically flexible and like most have said already, if there is need for more specialized roles they can draw on a pool of enlisted specialist to fill such roles as needed. And one strength with how the US Army works or used to at least is how we generally bend the rules of our doctrines, the USSR even stated that the US Forces have a habit of disregarding rules and battle doctrines.

Magical Assets of the summoning and/or spell casting would be Commissioned, most mages or shamens for that manner usually go through some kind of higher education system or similar training program which from my understanding qualifies one to at least sign up as a commissioned officer. That and with arcane assets being very desirable to about everyone the army or any branch for the matter would want a big incentive to get them signed up, and being a officer is a pretty big one if you ask me. Phys Adepts would be enlisted like some here have already stated, having a edge most dont have without the need for pricey hardware the DOD can afford to give them a better pay rank from sign up or make them warrant officers.

Matrix and Rigger personal would probably be warrant officers too since there is more invested into them and like all assets they want to keep them on board as long as possible, have to at least keep them on the list for as long as it would take to pay for the VCR or expensive headware that deckers seem to enjoy alot...

And from a personal standpoint I dont see the Armed Forces adopting wireless matrix or other such stuff they added in SR4, mainly because Wireless Matrix is new and new stuff had not been ironed out. And how easy it seems for the technomancers to wreck havok with wireless martix that they would want there drones on a VCR network instead as it runs on a different standard, as much as they would love one standard for all there stuff that means that the other side does not need to have different kinds of countermeasures. Sometimes different standards for various kinds of systems is a good despite some added complexity to operations. I can see it now. Some new school hacker sees some drones buzzing around and tries to hack them but since they are still on a VCR Deck and using a completely different standard his tries are useless, and since he broadcasted his location the drones buzz in and kill the slot.

Actually DARPA is one of the key funders of mobile ad hoc network work IIRC. MANETs are really useful to organizations that expect to have very few trusted nodes they can connect to unless they bring them along. There really are no particularly good reasons for most users in the real world to implement the SR4 model of peer-to-peer, but the military is different.

Though the idiocy of allowing random users to execute code on your hosts probably isn't part of DARPA's plans..... Somehow I expect that they actually HAVE a security model.

SWAT? HTR? Docwagon generally? I'd assume Docwagon is hiring EMTs first and training them for combat, for instance.

sure the average mall security guard isn't going to cut it; but except for saying 'cops' once*, I don't believe I said anything about coffee and a nightstick security guards.

when I say 'corporate structure' I though it was obvious that I mean the standing militaries that (some) AA (and all) AAA corporations maintain (The guys actually involved in force projection in 2055-2072) and not their local security.


*to be fair the term is inclusive of mall security so I made the mistake there.

ok, the way i envisioned it was this:

take gangers, civil war fighters, terrorists and others that may have had some encounter with violence.

they sign up for a round of desert wars or similar, get some basic training and if they survive they may end up signed with a merc group of some sort.

basically, the desert wars and such act as a live fire experience, testing ground for corp military products and as a trid gladiatorial show, all rolled up in one.

hell, it may even allow some to burn of excess hormones in a way thats unlikely to affect civilians much...

One would assume that the Desert Wars corps have their own training programs. Almost certainly with a very high attrition rate: today maggots you get to learn how to be cannon fodder.

Actually, you can imagine the line infantry 'vet' of 6 months (an 19 year old sinless ex-ganger who was sold to a desert wars corp rather than get put in an overcrowded jail by a corrupt judge/penal staff, whose just earned enough for a move by wire-system and is applying for an elite/ish squad): he's sitting in the trench when a corp recruiter comes up to him with half a dozen green replacements... cue pretty any war movie.

Ok, that would work. But one of the reasons why the various high quality PMCs/PSCs get and keep the work is because they are hiring people who already know 90%+ of the job and are a known quality. Hence their people are really good at their jobs. Becuse they are hiring experienced people they don't have to maintian a vast training feeder that produces people with 10-20 years of experience, they simply hired them when they left the military or retired from USSS etc. Once they are training entry level people themselves either the costs explode or the quality goes through the floor.

And high quality at (relatively) low cost is why PMCs/PSCs exist. The reason why State loves BW and used them all over the world isn't because of who they are or the founders connections, it's because they have NEVER had a State Dept client killed. This isn't true of Triple Canopy or DynaCorp (which still have high standards for the people they hire for protective services contracts) . And it sure isn't true of the marginal ops like Custer Battles, which would essentially hire US mall cops and give them machine guns in Baghdad.

Absolutely, that 'trainee' corp isn't the guys you hire when you want highly trained professionals. They're the guys you hire when the highly trained (and expensive) professionals need an expendable distraction. If you've survived a couple of those sort of fights, learnt a little, picked up some basic combat cyberware you sign onto a lower end professional merc corp. You learn a little bit more, you upgrade yourself some more and that uber-merc who's butt you saved in some hell-hole has gives you an AR card with a phone-number, you call it and apply for a job. Thats how you become an experienced but small fish in the big league.

So going to build that character concept.

As a RL aside, anyone read the profile of Erik Prince in Vanity Fair? Quite interesting...

Wow, and the author of that article isn't biased in the slightest.

Just a note here... Officers would need the tactical knowledge, but is an enlisted man (in almost every case) who actually runs the communicatios networks of most military units (you might have some Warrant Officer slots here as well, but probably not at anything less than the Batallion Level)... so the Enlisted Commo would get the Tactical Network duties, not the commanding officer of the platoon/company/batallion etc.

Keep the Faith

The line signal operator probably only has enough skills to do basic tactical EW, basic network security and basic network maintainence - it might actually be easier to just load up an agent and have the sig operator trained in getting the agent to do what the commander wants. Skill comparable to what we consider 'Hackers' in SR arn't going to be line signalmen; they're going to be Intel guys.

Actually, at BN level there is probably an Intello who runs a couple of hackers, a couple of divination magicians and the like.

Riggers are probably going to have their own platoon (part of the Spt Coy) with squads of different types of drones. Probably. Although each squad probably has a rigger as part of it as well, who runs the squad level drones (couple of roller balls, a small aeronautic drone, any automated weapon systems etc). I'd doubt this sort of rigger goes for full VR, rather probably runs most things by command / AR feed.

I don't know... Having been the Radio Operator for a Platoon/Company level force for several years, and knowing the people who actually ran the Commo shed, I would have to disagree... Hackers would now fill that role in the 2070's, as they would be the ones with the level of training to compete... it would be an MOS at worst, or a training school at best, depending upon the level of competence you are seeking... remember, at their core, your radioman is the one that coordinates Platoon/Company/Batallion/Regimental level tactics between units... NOT the guys in the Commo Sheds, nor the guys from Intelligence...

You would probably also have hacker specialists in the Intel Field as well, No Doubt...

Keep the Faith

I'm aware of how this works today, I was thinking how this could be in the future. If you have a HUD and live-feed input, why would a "grunt" be in control of the communications network when the officer in charge can take care of this via AR or even VR quickly and without the need of another person for input and issue orders?

Officers have other things to worry about... It is a viable option, but having someone else who SPECIALIZES in such activity will make it work better...

Though There is a fairly okay representation of such things in the Movie Aliens... The Lieutenant stays back to execute Command and Control from the Vehicle, while the Platoon Seargeant actually enforces the decisions made by the Lieutenant...

It works fairly well (at least for the movies), but I would prefer the expert to the officer any day for actual coordination, as they will be specialized in this regards, while the Officer is going to be skilled in the broader strokes of command... after all, it is not really the officers that run a military organization, it is the Non-Commissioned Officers that do so... the Officers just make sure that someone knows what it is that they expect to happen and let the professionals actually handle the execution of the plan (it has been my experience that officers do tend to overthink the solutions and get caught up in the what-ifs)... I do not see this changing much even in the future...

Keep the Faith

Well, fair enough you have much more experience in this matter than I do, and yes, something akin to Aliens II was what I had in mind. If it is the case, you could still have a comm expert and the officer in charge could have some kind of simulator to project the most likely outcome for a given tactic based on the input received by the tacnet.

Sure, no doubt... but that will take time, not something done in the span of a single turn or two, which is what he (the officer) will be concentrating upon, while what the Comm/Tacnet Coordinator is doing is making sure that all his assets are communicating and updating on a continuing basis, and relaying communications from higher ups... 2 completely different jobs indeed...

So different in fact that there is a Cyberware Suite based upon this principle called the Cyberlogician... it is an awesome concept, and one that I have been using to great effect in the game for the last year or two... though I have been unable to obtain the complete package as of yet (mostly because of Essence requirements, I still lack the Encephalon and Simsense Booster)... Still, it is a goal of mine...

Keep the Faith

Point of order, the movie title is Aliens not Aliens 2. It's Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3.

As for makeup? Well that will depend how the battlefield molds itself. We can look to our current history to see how people will react. A prime example is the tank. In America, the development of the tank corps was severely hampered by infantry generals. Much to the chagrin of officers like Patton (who was one of the few Americans who commanded and used tanks in the first World War) tanks were being relegated to support infantry and moving at 3 mph instead of utilizing their amazing maneuverability potential. The line of thought was really dominant up until 1940-1941, even after witnessing the German blitzkrieg in Poland. It took over 20 years for tanks in the American army to be relegated to their own corps, instead of directly attached to infantry. Even then, some of the commanding tank corps generals were still of the infantry supporting tank school of thought.

Fast forward to the Vietnam War. This is the first war that demonstrated having to face guerrilla tactics at a large scale. Fast forward about 30 years and we still really haven't adapted effectively to guerrilla style warfare.

As for magic on the battlefield, it's going to be a specialization. It's 1% awakened individuals, but just a fraction of that are going to be full-fledged magicians. Of that, a fraction will take employment with national armed forces. Because of that rarity and expense, they're not going to be dispensable. They will be deployed in a fashion similar to how sniper teams are deployed, and consequently more in contact with the command staff, or they will be used to suppress, interfere, and otherwise prevent enemy casters from messing with the front line grunts.

Makeup.... the military will still be predominantly infantry, in fact there may be a decline in the volume of tank units as the urban sprawl continues to grow, unless tanks regularly just plow through buildings while involved in actions. Air units may also decline with the advancement of smart weaponry. Unless there is effective counter measures to protect helicopter style air support, that will decline in usage, though air bombardment will still be prevalent. I think artillery may actually gain significant traction. Smart weaponry combined with the potential to significantly increase range should see more accurate artillery at longer distances. Combine this with a lessened regard for metahuman life in general and I wouldn't be surprised to see sprawl battlefields end up turning into a huge expanse of rubble that is just rebuilt later by the megas for profit.

Good points. You missed two more items I think; drones and skillwires. Drones can be very effective in hostile environments, and might be a cheap alternative to highly trained infantry. Skillwires allow the "drafting" of common people in ways that weren't before possible. They also allow highly-wired staff to become extremely versatile.

Think about it: skillwired workers become soldiers at the press of a button.

Skillwires are only useful for disposable troops, that's it. They're bad for any forces that will learn from experience. Any specialized soldier is going to be taught the skill natively, especially officers and sergeants.

As for drones, it doesn't change my assessment. Infantry drones, air drones, artillery drones.... you're just substituting a meat body with a metal body. Not everyone has the skills to be a Rigger for multiple drones, so they will likely retain support roles rather than primary offense. The hostile environment is a limited argument, remember the enemy is also in that hostile environment, so if their sacks of flesh can handle it, so can yours. Further, if the enemy can block out communications, the drones are useless. Boots on the ground will always outnumber drones.

Well, this type of CCC failed in Aliens (Ripley saved the squad). Black Hawk Down represents a RL example with great accuracy. The higher-up officers circling in aircraft and back at base are ineffective, and in fact serve as a hinder the action on the ground. In 2050+ communications will improve, which gives the false impression that 'Officers' are able to maintain effective C&C in real-time, but considering how wired most heavy-hitters are, such comm improvements will not compete with speed of the action.

Most likely, every professional soldier will have a comm-link and basic knowledge of communications (ECM, ECCM, etc.), but will still rely on small-unit tactics, training, and experience. I envision each soldier as an army of one who will know what to do when local jamming sources overwhelm his comm network. I also see even grunts given some sort of dumbed-down versions of jammers and signal-security equipment.

You can give a drone instructions, then send it in under radio silence; after completing it's mission it flies back. Jamming can't stop that.

Skillwires don't make elite troops, but they do offer flexibility; you can turn anyone into a pilot, gunner or whatever in moments. You can give your troops "skill" in the time it takes to put in the implant and heal up again, that would otherwise take years.

Like with any miltech it is the most powerful when it first appears. Then countermeasures crop up and it becomes just like any other miltech. Drones would yield to EMP based weaponry. This is the natural course of war. Likewise, if you give it orders then send it in, you have no flexibility on what it does while in the area of jamming. I may have spotted a command tent that it could have blown up, but completely ignored it because the target didn't fit within the pilot's orders.

Skillwires don't work for specializations, period. I think skillwires for pilots are worse than for grunts actually, because like any program it is predictable. It may be difficult to do so, but it is possible. The last thing you want is to be risking a multi-million piece of equipment just because of an exploitable predictability in the software. I don't see skillwires being worth the risk beyond drafted grunts. Now if you want an inflexible military force, by all means use skillwires. Smaller, flexible, imaginative forces will be able to defeat a far large numbers skillwire based force.

My assessment is that the cheap drones become cheaper, the more prevalent they will become. They do bring their own issues with maintnance though. My thoughts on a platoon TO for a UCAS/CAS infantry company (4 platoons+Headquarters section):

1 Captain (May be a an adept, if not definitely cybered up)
4 Leiutenants (May be a an adept, if not definitely cybered up)
1 Chief Thaumatlogical specialist (mage)+Max in binded spirits+1 Summoned
4 Thaumatoligical Specialists (Mages)+Max in binded spirits+1 Summoned
1 Cheif Comm Specialist (Hacker)
4 Comm Specailsts (Hackers)
1 Chief RPV specialist (riggers)
6 RPV specialists (riggers)
6 Combat Medics
1 Company Seargent (If not an adept, definitely cybered up)
4 Platoon Seargents (If not an adept, definitely cybered up)
32 Squad Seargents.
132 Other Enlisted of various ranks.



Standard Equipment:
Armor: Military grade: heavy, with full load out in hemet: Ar display, trodes, IR, lowlight, flare comp, sound dampners, vision magnification, smartlink, and armor is modified to increase the users mobility as much as possible.

Commlinks: Most security programs would be rating 6, with high level agents/IC loaded on them. All would be tacneted at the platoon or company level as the situation dictates. Riggers and Hackers would have access to rating 8 or higher programs.

Mundane enlisted troops would be encouraged to get cyber, but only those staying for more than one enlistment period.

For the riggers each would have: 6 survellance type drones each + 6 Comabt drones + 10 micro drones carried by the enlisted troops.
(Drone type would be 4 air and 2 ground typically, with half designated as anti-vehicle (AVMs and assault cannons), the other Anti-personnell (machine guns, and AP missles)-the micros would be air, but given the limited range would be carried by riflemen)

Heavy weapons:
4 Mortars (2 crew each)
6 GPHMG (2 crew each)
6 Panther Cannons
5 Rocket launchers (with a mix of AP and AV ammo) (2 crew each)
16 Light machineguns

(50 men)

Specialist Weapons:
6 Sniper rifles
(12 men)

Rifleman's weapon:
95 Colt M23-Smartlinked
22 Colt M22A2-Smartlinked

Side arms: Would vary depending the soldiers preference. A weapons teams would have an SMG, while other troops would have heavy pistol (probably and APIV). All sidearms would be smartlinked.

The insane cheapness of munitions, missiles, and drones (and to a lesser extent vehicles) in SR will bend events in ways that the real world won't.

Ultimately for any force, form follows function. A well-funded CAS military which is primarily geared toward border defense and major conflicts in urban/suburban environments against large trained Atzlan and American Indian militaries will look very different than an army that is primarily focused on insurgency suppression. Economic and cultural factors would also weigh heavily. My take on things is below:

UCAS: Strong economy, relatively stable relationships with neighbors, minimal civilian unrest. The military would have a relatively small core of professional soldiers and augment heavily with Reserve/Nat'l Guard forces. Heavy use of drones and matrix as force multipliers. National Guard might encourage installation of skillwires sets, as it can increase combat effectiveness of troops despite minimal training, and because the skills can be replaced with practical corporate skills when they're released back into the civilian population. Military would primarily use small mobile strike teams for offensive force projection (hit squads, sabotage, etc). Due to scarcity of mages, magical resources would be consolidated at Battalion/Brigade level and attached to individual units on a mission-by-mission basis.

CAS: Strong economy, heavily-contested southern border, minimal civilian unrest. Would have a larger standing army. Would also use drones and matrix as force multipliers, and would have a greater emphasis than UCAS on heavy armor, artillery and air superiority to counter Atzlaners. Due to scarcity of mages, magical resources would be consolidated at Battalion/Brigade level and attached to individual units on a mission-by-mission basis.

NAN: Growning economy, minor civil unrest related to second-rate status of large [non-indian] percentage of population. Perception of threats from larger nations on all sides. Cultural support for magic users, who are seen as the 'edge' that NAN has had against CAS/UCAS. Mages would be more numerous and integrated at company level with regular forces.

Atzlan: Stagnant economy, significant and protracted internal unrest as well as threats from the more technically savy and economically healthy CAS and the magically powerful Amazonia. Authoritarian centralized government. Atzlan military is as much about quelling threats from within as it is about sparring with neighboring countries. As a result, they'll have a large standing army, and probably a mandatory service obligation for all [poor] citizens. Many boots on the ground allows them to keep their own country in check and provides social conditioning/brainwashing of most of the population. The government would stay in fear of military coup, and would therefore maintain tight centralized control of special assets like magical firepower, matrix support, and drones. Military would have parallel ranks of attached 'advisors' down to the company level to look for insufficient patriotism/loyalty. Tactics would not be closer to soviet massed assaults than Iranian human wave charges, but would still have less efficient use of force multipliers than any of their northern neighbors.

Amazonia: Stagnant economy, independant anti-establishment population. Militant new age hippie anarchists. Heavily magical with distrust of technology. Defense would be highly decentralized - more like groups of individual warlords than a unified fighting force. Heavy use of magic and general distrust of tech which minimizes matrix or drone use. Special assets are released down to the platoon level, and there would be inconsistencies in setup and resources of battalions from one region to the next. All units are supplied with environmental liasons to minimize interference with- and cooperation maximize cooperation from local inhabitants.

^ this, so this.

I'd expect large amount of skill-wire usage in the Azzie grunt units: at a large scale its more likely to be cheaper and easier than actual training.

@Warlordtheft: Your suggesting 5-15 Awakened / coy in an SR military? Wow. Just wow. Almost everybody else here was wavering at 'maybe 1 / company. But Magic is probably a BN asset (in the CAS/UCAS at least).'

From a naval point of view, I wouldn't expect a mage (say Leut level) on anything below a frigate, and even then there is probably only one on the senior ship of an escort / whatever-the-jargon-is-in-SR group. I'd expect there to be 1 mage per destroyer (Leut/Leut-Commander), 2 maybe 3 (Leut-Commander/Commander and 2 Leuts) on larger ships such as amphibs and probably more on Carriers. (This is excluding mages undergoing their final training before qualification (Ensign / Leut JG), at which point they're probably sent to sea for 6-12 months and are supervised by a qualified seagoing mage, so maybe 1 on a FF/DD and more on larger ships).

Also, WRT cyberization of the units I'd expect every person to get largely the same cyber/bio-ware on induction / category training. Much as you now get issued boots and a rifle, I expect you to get issued boots a rifle and some ware as standard. Depending on your function this will be different (Officers will get some C+C hearware, people posted to Scout units probably get a Attention Co-pro in addition to standard infantry kit, Artillerymen at perhaps Sargeant level and above (don't actually know what level working the maths on fire missions starts at) get a Maths CPU, Hackers / Riggers get a Cyberlogician outfit, people who lose limbs in combat have them replaced at the Services expense - as a result picking a combat vet unit vs a green unit would be possible looking at the amount of additional cyber). This standardization makes everything cheaper and easier on the services - they get to buy in bulk, and there are people who are trained to fix it when its broke.

WRT Hackers. Most company level technical interaction is probably going to be on a communications and network security level, so I wouldn't term them hackers rather 'Tactical Communications Operators' - hackers imply far more range than I"d envisage them having.

I agree with you on this one... commanders removed from the front line have no real business dictating terms to the troops with their asses on the line...

As for the ubiquitousness of Comlinks... I agree that everyone will have the equipment to survive on the battlefield, and this will indeed include Comlinks and other electronic devices to make their life more survivable... however, I still forsee a dedicated Hacker/Cyberlogician coordinating the unit (or at the very least linking the unit and ensuring their network is functional and operational)...

Keep the Faith

I'd say that cheap, effective armour would feature just as importantly. Even if an AK costs you a bag of rice, it's pretty worthless if you only get to use it once or twice.

Guided weapons are VERY cheap in SR. Shooting two 3,750 missiles with airburst at someone is a perfectly viable tactic, and the odds are that the target is going to have a very bad day with scatter of (2D6 -6 - net hits). An actual guided weapon in the real world (Javelin) costs $80,000 each.

I would be really suprised if every infantry soldier (those who will see combat in the event of a hostile situation) didn't have Wired Reflexes I. At 11,000Y, it's probably the single most cost effective upgrade a combat individual can get. I understand how Lone Star/Knight Errant, Metroplex Guard, etc. aren't Wired, but anyone who is reasonably going to see sustained combat as part of their job should have more than 1 IP. (Such as SWAT, First Responce Squads, and military infantry soldiers.)

(Heck, if the military wanted to be bastards about it, they can yank it out after their enlistment is over, and give it to the next guy in line. Unless, of course, you agree to enter the reserves. Since many individuals are likely to go into security of some kind, this grants a nation a large number of trained, already cybered individuals in an emergency.)

I agree that Skillwires are likely the next upgrade on the list (and in support roles, much more likely than wired). In a combat situation, it would allow a soldier to drive a tank, handle a support weapon, or perform first aid on a squadmate. Most of these are skills you should develop, but honestly, unless it's your specialty, do you really think most soldiers are going to have such skills beyond a 1 or a 2? (And in the case of Tank driving, at all?)

And especially in the reserves, a decent set of skillwires for R3 skills can make all the difference.

I also think there will be alot of drones. Sure, they can be jammed and hacked, but that's apart of the game. You just need to be better than the other guys. I think each squad is likely to have at least 1 individual with a really high signal comlink (and ECCM), so that they can control the drones in their vicinity, in case of jamming attacks. Lets not overlook Retrans Units, high signal, and ECCM.

The military LOVES new toys. We all know it will be the soldier, on the ground, with the boots, who will be doing most of the work. People are just to damn adaptable (and equipment fails) for it to be otherwise, until the Robots take over. But in a professional military, there is going to be full armor, goggles with low-light, therma, and smartlinks, tons of drones (not "armies" of them, like in Rifts, but still a lot in different roles). Look at the police today. It's good PR to use a robot in place of a human when you can. If nothing else, there will be a walker drone with spare ammunition (and a medkit or 3) following squads around.

Not sure about the distrust for tech, more like distrust for wasteful production methods and similar.

a treehugger could very well embrace tech, as long as its sustainable made

I still think the military would use the good old VCR Deck as it would be more secure then this new wireless matrix connection that is now used for most everything. A VCR has far greater range then the Wireless Matrix and one major thing, it cant be countered with by matrix means. They have to have a rigger with a deck to conduct electronic warfare to jam or hi-jack your link to your drones, and if you really need to have the range expanded there is always having some forward team lug around a signal repeater and a signal booster. Wireless Matrix = Liability even with black IC and Personal Firewalls. The squads already have a form of tactical communications and rapid ad-hoc networks in the the form of tac-comms, and those come with hardwired encryption and ECM/ECCM already embedded in them. Only way to disable the hardware is to fry it, same with most military VCR, call me old school but why fix something that is not broken or superior.

err, what now?

would that not basically be a case of protecting a network by using a non-standard protocol?
(or maybe making use of the non-standard wireless link hardware mod from unwired)

as for range, get a better antenna...

Could still be able to crack it buy means of a program, a VCR using a completely different kind of sim-sense standard so they cant really interact which is a inherent security feature one could call it that the military would appreciate. As it is now, all it would take is some time, or alot of stupid/blind luck to get onto the network and wreck some drone havok. Maybe for civilian applications of drones the wireless matrix is fine, but military stuff I would say not so. May cost the military more to have there drones made with VCR type receivers and controls as signals will not mix with wireless matrix ones, even the Crash 2.0 book has a example of this happening where a rigger had his signal cross with the deckers and had his drones go and shoot up each other.

And.. Well I guess if the DoD did accept Wireless Matrix/Matrix 2.0 as the new standard I am sure some branches or special outfits will stick to the older stuff they trust. Kinda like how the Marines kept there inventory of Model 1911A1 Operator pistols instead of using the pea shooter that is the beretta service pistol, 9mm is okay but the .45ACP is still a hell of a good man stopper. Close to 100 years old in design and still effective, same with the 7.62x54mmR. The 7.62x54mmR was first produced in 1891 and still being used in modern firearms. I can see the same case with the old VCR Deck standard for drone control, may be old and some may think its outdated but if it works and works well or even better then new stuff why switch?

I dunno.. using different standards doesn't really seem to apply. SR uses 6 (!) different standard Operating Systems without this having any sort of compatibility effects.

But what is this VCR thing you speak of? Some SR3 thing?

The army could commission mages outside of the regular chain of command, such as Doctors and Lawyers, who are given commissions but then are assigned to Medical Corps or JAG Corps. Why not a Mage Corps?