Ammunition Calibers, caliber of bullets in SR4? Options

[Guntherfuzz8]

Can anyone enlighten me to what the caliber of bullets are for the various weapons in SR4? Off the top of my head I'd guesstimate as follows...

Hold-Out - .22
Small - .38
Medium - 9mm
Large - .357/.40/.45/.50

Shotguns - 12 guage

Submachine Guns - 9mm

Assualt Rifles - 5.56mm or 7.62mm

Hunting Rifles - .30-06/.30-30/.308

Sniper Rifles - 5.56mm or 7.62mm

Does that sound about right or is there a list in one of the books somewhere?

[Ancient History]

Shadowrun has studiously avoided calibers for firearms.

[Guntherfuzz8]

That would explain why I couldn't find a mention of them. Which sucks since we are using the SR4 rules for a modern style game.

[Ancient History]

Makes you feel any better, your calibers seem fine. It was basically done for simplicity (and because not all freelancers are gun experts).

[kzt]

Don't bother trying. There isn't any particular relationship with SR firearms and real guns that makes any sense. In particular, SR handguns are just as effective as SR rifles, while in the real world there is a huge gaping chasm between them, and between a rifle and a heavy machine gun. Plus the whole idea of handgun bullets being as effective as rifle bullets in penetrating cover is absurd.

[LivingOxymoron]

I would say that more than likely, Corps like Ares who are big on weapons manufacturing probably have their own proprietary calibers as well.

[zeborazor]

In my game we apply calibers just for flavor. It's assumed the Ruger Super-Warhawk is a .50cal, along with the Barrett sniper.

[Saint Sithney]

Actually, Barrett and other Long Range Sniper manufacturers have recently switched to a .400ish caliber, like the .416 or .408 round.

[zeborazor]

Well there you go. It could be anything in the future, it's just for flavor, and so we can compare them to modern day contemporaries. Makes it easier to imagine.

[Method]

I have seen some elaborate conversion schemes over the years, which I'm sure you could find with a Google search, but if you ask me that way lies only madness... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Fix-it]

Well there you go. It could be anything in the future, it's just for flavor, and so we can compare them to modern day contemporaries. Makes it easier to imagine.

not to mention that all/most modern cartridges would go out the window when you switch to caseless ammo.

[zeborazor]

I'd imagine they would simply be skinnier?

[Generico]

I'd imagine they would simply be skinnier?

Or shorter with the charge wrapped around the bullet ala the G11

The other trend in modern firearms is to make EVERYTHING armor piercing. See also PDWs

[Medicineman]

Kaliber in SR was never a good Idea because of endless Discussions, but If you insist....
1) there are no Medium Pistols in SR.
2) the Realworld Equivalents of old SR3 Light &Auto-Pistols were 9MM (Beretta,Black Scorpion,Seco LD)
3)There are at least two different Shotguns with the same Damage Code
4) there was this Rayguncharlie Homepage with lots of old SR3 Weapons but all were Houserules ,
you might Google for it

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Smokeskin]

Can anyone enlighten me to what the caliber of bullets are for the various weapons in SR4? Off the top of my head I'd guesstimate as follows...

Hold-Out - .22
Small - .38
Medium - 9mm
Large - .357/.40/.45/.50

Shotguns - 12 guage

Submachine Guns - 9mm

Assualt Rifles - 5.56mm or 7.62mm

Hunting Rifles - .30-06/.30-30/.308

Sniper Rifles - 5.56mm or 7.62mm

Does that sound about right or is there a list in one of the books somewhere?

You could start here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cartridges_by_caliber

There are A LOT more than what you have listed, if you include less common rounds.

Submachineguns: .45 is also somewhat common

Assault rifles: You list the current NATO rounds. The Soviet rounds 7.62x39, which doesn't fit the 7.62 NATO chamber, and the 5.45mm are also very common. The trend of shorter barrels have proved problematic with 5.56 rounds, which don't have sufficient stopping power at the lower muzzle velocities, and the 7.62 round could be smaller. The 6.5mm Grendel or something along those lines could be next major assault rifle round, if anyone ever decides to heck with the implementation costs. With significant improvements in gunpowder performance or caseless rounds, it is highly probable you'd see new common calibers emerge.

Sniper Rifles: 5.56 isn't a sniper rifle round. The sniper rifle ranges listed in SR isn't at all possible with 7.62 rounds. Calibers like .338, .408, .416, and .50 are needed for that.

Also note that a diameter isn't all there is to the round. .300 and .308 may seem like different diameters, but they're really the same - sometimes you measure the bullet, sometimes the top of the barrel grooves, sometimes the bottom, but even then other dimensions can vary so the calibers aren't compatible. .308 and 7.62 NATO is as good as the same round, but 7.62mm NATO won't fit an AK-47 witch also has 7.62mm diameter, since it fires 39mm casings, not 51mm like the NATO round.

[Medicineman]

See (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
thats why there is no Caliber in SR
(3 different Calibers for Assaultrifles with the same Damage code)

Hough!
Medicineman

[Sengir]

Don't try to apply any real world knowledge to Shadowrun weapons. You're just going to hurt your brain (and possibly the rest of your head, when you bang it on the desk).

[Smokeskin]

Don't try to apply any real world knowledge to Shadowrun weapons. You're just going to hurt your brain (and possibly the rest of your head, when you bang it on the desk).

That doesn't mean you can't add technical details for flavor.

[D2F]

If it is simply to add flavor, it would make sense to assign a specific caliber to each SR weapon category, considering that rules-wise, you are able to use munition of a particular type of weapon with any and every other weapon of the same type.

As a pure suggestion, I would propose the following values, depending on weapon type and function:

Hold-out: .22
Light Pistol: .38
Heavy Pistol: 9mm
Super-Heavy Pistol (i.e. Ruger Superwarhawk): .367

Machine Pistol: 8mm
Submachine Gun: .45
Assault Rifle: 5.56mm NATO

Shotgun: 12 gauge
Sporting Rifle: .308
Sniper Rifle: .408

Light Machine Gun: 5.45mm (not to use the same caliber as for the assualt rifle, based on the 5.45x39mm RPK caliber)
Medium Machine Gun: 7.62mm NATO
Heavy Machine Gun: .50

Grenade Launchers: 25mm Grenades

The rest, like assault cannons, rocket launchers, mortars and gauss rifles, should be self-explanatory and not in need of a caliber assignment.

[Sengir]

That doesn't mean you can't add technical details for flavor.

For flavour sure, just don't try to come up with any "hard" rules for it. And if ammo types might become relevant (like two weapons using the same round), make an arrangement with the GM before the dakka starts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

@D2F: From a real life perspective, I'd suggest using the same round for assault rifles and light MGs...armies like easy logistics.

[Medicineman]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Light Pistol: .38
Heavy Pistol: 9mm
And where are the 10MM or 11 MM Handguns,Cal 44 or .50AE ?
What about Dirty Harrys Magnum 44 Revolver ?

Machine Pistol: 8mm
Submachine Gun: .45

Where are the 9MM Autopistols (Black Scorpion)and 9MM MPs (Heckler & Koch f.E.)

Medium Machine Gun: 7.62mm NATO
and what about an Assault Rifle with 7.62 MM Ammo ? the same damage Code as an
MMG ?

With a little surprised Dance
Medicineman

[D2F]

@D2F: From a real life perspective, I'd suggest using the same round for assault rifles and light MGs...armies like easy logistics.

I completely agree. As I stated, however, the intention was not to give the most realistic comparison, but the most suitable in regard to SR rules.

As it is, you cannot use assault rifle ammunition with light machine guns in SR, or vice versa. It is for that reason, I opted for a different, yet similar calibre in my proposal, in this case based on the 5.45x39mm round of the soviet RPK-74 light machine gun.

Obviously it is only a suggestion. What you opt to use, if any, is up to you.

[Sengir]

As it is, you cannot use assault rifle ammunition with light machine guns in SR, or vice versa.

Unless the GM approves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[D2F]

Unless the GM approves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Not a valid argument. If the GM approves, you can change the fire mode on an assault cannon to FA as well, not to mention fit a drum feed to it...

[Sengir]

Each weapon has 6 mod slots, large fire selection change takes up 4 slots, drum feed 2. Tripod recommended

And the posiblity to share ammo types is explicitly mentioned in the BBB (Ammunition section in the Gear chapter).