Dragon ownage? Options

[Hagga]

Your average magician is not going to end up at that point, a lifetime of study or not.

Damien Knight or even any CEO of a AA or any other such sized entity is not looked upon as meal tickets either and those are evidently much less formidable on a personal basis than any GD, some of those guys could be worth more than some GDs. Just because you killed a GD doesn't mean all that PHAT loot will drop from the metaplanes into your bank account.

Why not? There's an ever increasing body of magical knowledge. Some of those being born today might, in the 80th and 90th years, find themselves with 13 magic and a will to do something with it. Miles Lanier (I forget his name. Featured in Dunkelzahn's will) probably would have gotten there easily if he hadn't gotten shredded in the Eurowars. I can't imagine many dragons exactly need a "mailed fist" in the vein of Darth Vader but they've all got servants. They would probably recruit someone with promise, exchanging utmost servitude for financial support and magical training. Like the Benandanti, if they were trained by Schwarzkopf rather than having money flung at them willy-nilly.

And it doesn't mean your bank account will swell after you kill one, but you will have a gigantic pile of meat, telesma, alchemical ingredients and radicals. If you somehow do it in it's lair and it is a more traditional dragon, you might even find some valuable memory crystals. Or art.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Right before the "Jane is as powerful as she needs to be" in Dusk it gives her an "Initiate grade of at least eight". I'd think that a 10,000 year old being (with such high Logic and Intuition) would have figured out that being able to squash your average magician who's spent a lifetime studying to get that far is a good thing in a world where you're seen as a meal ticket with a billion trillion dollars. Even some of the feats attributed to them couldn't be achieved without enormous overcasting, and that's just the smaller ones. As it is, they're going to be taking obscene amounts of drain just killing a drone.

I think people overplay the 10,000 year old thing a bit.(unrelated but not all GD are 10,000 years old)

Really look at most peoples lives, how much of your life is dedicated to constant improvement and how much is dedicated to getting by as a slacker. I suspect virtually everyone is in a place where the vast majority of there time is spent not in self improvement or spending karma to be a more bad ass whatever. Why do people always assume once people become immortal they get some super drive tony robins whispering in there ear thing and become stupidly powerful at everything. Quite frankly I suspect there rate improvement stagnates even faster. Once you are in the yeah I'm bad ass and i don't have to even try to get by stage, why are you busting ass to improve yourself all the time. Also who says they did any magic at all or any significant practicing of magic during the down times. On top of that I suspect what they can do is limited to the current magic level so even if in the height of the 4th age they were mega mages of justice they probably can't pull even half of that out of a hat. Anyways, I'm rambling, but to sum up I have faith in laziness and while I would think they would be much more talented than mortal mages etc. I don't think they would be nearly as smart/powerful etc as people imply because there 10,000 years old.

[toturi]

When we play our characters, usually GMs insist that the adventure/session/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it poses some sort of challenge before we are actually awarded much karma. At the level of GDs, I think that it would be very rare to find anything that can sufficiently challenge a GD and thus while they may live a long time, they aren't getting much karma for most of the time.

In fact I would speculate that GDs spend much of their long lifespan in "downtime". Even for Lowfyr and Alamais or Lung and Ryumyo, the rivalries do not provide 5-6 karma a "session" but more like a low but steady trickle of karma (maybe 2-3 karma per time unit of measure).

So while they live a long time, they do not actually have comparatively that much more experience than a metahuman.

[darthmord]

When we play our characters, usually GMs insist that the adventure/session/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it poses some sort of challenge before we are actually awarded much karma. At the level of GDs, I think that it would be very rare to find anything that can sufficiently challenge a GD and thus while they may live a long time, they aren't getting much karma for most of the time.

In fact I would speculate that GDs spend much of their long lifespan in "downtime". Even for Lowfyr and Alamais or Lung and Ryumyo, the rivalries do not provide 5-6 karma a "session" but more like a low but steady trickle of karma (maybe 2-3 karma per time unit of measure).

So while they live a long time, they do not actually have comparatively that much more experience than a metahuman.

Well going by the history fluff, they are active for ~5000 years at a whack. I don't know about you but if I was active for 5k years, I'd have a fair chunk of Karma stored up... a lot more than your average runner simply due to the timeframe involved.

This becomes more true when you take into account metahuman lifespans. ~80-100 years for a baseline Human againt an entity that dies only to violence / suicide / disease.

[BRodda]

And it doesn't mean your bank account will swell after you kill one, but you will have a gigantic pile of meat, telesma, alchemical ingredients and radicals. If you somehow do it in it's lair and it is a more traditional dragon, you might even find some valuable memory crystals. Or art.

That is a REALLY bad idea. If you have read about Big D's will it caused all sorts of issues because in Draconic society the DRAGONS divide up the personal possessions of the dead dragon. They might have taken out one stupid suicidal dragon, but the rest will want what they consider theirs.

[Draco18s]

That is a REALLY bad idea. If you have read about Big D's will it caused all sorts of issues because in Draconic society the DRAGONS divide up the personal possessions of the dead dragon. They might have taken out one stupid suicidal dragon, but the rest will want what they consider theirs.

They (non-dragon dragon-killers) could probably get away with whatever they could carry at the time. Odds are the rest of the dragons won't know the full inventory of the dead dragon's hoard, even if they put their respective heads together they probably couldn't account for every last gold coin.

[BRodda]

They (non-dragon dragon-killers) could probably get away with whatever they could carry at the time. Odds are the rest of the dragons won't know the full inventory of the dead dragon's hoard, even if they put their respective heads together they probably couldn't account for every last gold coin.

I was thinking of anything "Interesting" that they might get. And I'm sure that dragon's keep their gold in places where they can leverage it or trade it easily. Anything over 1 million (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) the other dragons probably know about.

[Draco18s]

I was thinking of anything "Interesting" that they might get. And I'm sure that dragon's keep their gold in places where they can leverage it or trade it easily. Anything over 1 million (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) the other dragons probably know about.

Even 1 item for the group valued at (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 500,000 would be quite a reward, financially.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm AFB right now and I'm posting this based on my recall, but ain't there two "levels" of Dragons? Great Dragons and non-Great Dragons? And only GD have the Twist Fate power?
Because if so, the OP never mentioned which kind of Dragon was and a normal Dragon could even be taken down this way (although said Dragon was clearly drunk or somehow inebriated and not thinking right...)

[Draco18s]

You are right, but wrong.

fight a great dragon

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Fair enough, that's what happens for posting when I've read only the first page.
Then, yes, it doesn't make any sense, it is worse then putting your neofite vampire players fighting an Elder Ahroun Silver Fangs who won't spend Fury points nor use any gifts of 2nd rank or higher...

[Hagga]

They would probably recruit someone with promise, exchanging utmost servitude for financial support and magical training. Like the Benandanti, if they were trained by Schwarzkopf rather than having money flung at them willy-nilly.

I'm loathe to start a new thread, and this one's already not only gotten derailed, but grown wings and flown to the moon. What DOES a dragon look for in a servant? What would they look for when just waking up in the teens and going "Okiedokey, tail, check, wings, check, legs, check, not a horror construct trapped in the prison of my own mind, check, just stick my head out the door and.. WHAT THE BLOODY HELL?" Just snag the first person who came looking for them and molded them into what they needed? What about later on in the cycle?

[Draco18s]

What DOES a dragon look for in a servant?

Drakes. They look for their servant race of drakes.

[Ascalaphus]

What DOES a dragon look for in a servant?

- Talent
- Sane, or insane in a way that can be directed in a constructive way; reliabiity
- Lifespan; when you scheme on the scale of centuries, people who die after 50 years are really annoying. It takes time to promote a pawn to a better piece.
- Loyalty
- Compatible with the dragon's own personal hangups ("He's not allowed to like the color red...")

[Draco18s]

- Compatible with the dragon's own personal hangups ("He's not allowed to like the color red...")

- Has a thing for predicament bondage.

Er, wait. I am not allowed to ruin another topic.

[Red_Cap]

- Lifespan; when you scheme on the scale of centuries, people who die after 50 years are really annoying. It takes time to promote a pawn to a better piece.

Not necessarily. Daviar is an elf, yeah, but Ghostwalker's translator is an ork, and their life expententcy in SR is what, 40 years? 50?

Fact is, the problem with serving a dragon is the same problem that, say, the Ancients have. When your upper level leadership is too strong/skilled to be killed off and don't grow old and die naturally, then someone's just armored the glass ceiling. Rolf Bremen was SK Prime's top knee-breaker and as close to a number one guy that Lofwyr has probably ever had, but he's still just human, so the chances of him doing anything to supplant or remove Lofwyr are slim to fragging none. Therefore, I see serving a dragon as one of two things:

1.) An act of loyalty. Somewhere along the lines, the dragon has done something to make its servants unswervingly and unquestioningly loyal to it.
2.) An act of stupidity. You're just in it for the perks, without realizing that you'll never quite reach the top.

[Hagga]

Drakes. They look for their servant race of drakes.

I seem to remember reading something about PC's risking being turned into drakes and removed as NPC's for excellent service. And in regards to lifespan, there's always the possibility of a dragon, say, surprising a valued servant and waking them up with a "oh hi, ur immurtal now lolz". They did it to the elves. Especially if it was a valued servant who was unshakably loyal while still unable to threaten them. Or just make that immortality conditional upon service.

[toturi]

Well going by the history fluff, they are active for ~5000 years at a whack. I don't know about you but if I was active for 5k years, I'd have a fair chunk of Karma stored up... a lot more than your average runner simply due to the timeframe involved.

This becomes more true when you take into account metahuman lifespans. ~80-100 years for a baseline Human againt an entity that dies only to violence / suicide / disease.

You'd need that "fair chunk" of karma when nearly all of your Attributes are in the double digits.

I don't know about you but if I was a powerful ageless entity, I'd not have a fair chunk of karma stored up, simply because the GM in the sky won't be giving me all that much karma unless there is something that awesome that can challenge me. If I am ageless, why am I risking my immortal ass on higher risk karmic payouts, when I can get the same at much lesser risk over the next hundred years? I can sit in my lair playing draconic chess with my pawns or playing low risk power poker for much safer and just as effective results.

[Draco18s]

I seem to remember reading something about PC's risking being turned into drakes and removed as NPC's for excellent service.

That was vampires. To be a drake you either spend 60 BP on the Drake quality or you spend 5 BP (and a huge karma later) for Latent Dracomorphasis.

[etherial]

That was vampires. To be a drake you either spend 60 BP on the Drake quality or you spend 5 BP (and a huge karma later) for Latent Dracomorphasis.

Depends on whether the Dragon still remembers the Alter Life spell from back in Earthdawn days.

[Neraph]

Depends on whether the Dragon still remembers the Alter Life spell from back in Earthdawn days.

Assuming, of course, that Earthdawn is Shadowrun.

Let me see if I can explain this better:

E-A-R-T-H-D-A-W-N

S-H-A-D-O-W-R-U-N

It is my mathematics that the above words are 22.2(repeating) similar, but the similarity of the spelling of the words is not indicative of the similiarity of the content. Even then, the similiarity of the content is not indicative of the relationship of the object (most biologists are still having problems with this).

[etherial]

Assuming, of course, that Earthdawn is Shadowrun.

The point is, when you're 10,000 years old, you have access to things that nobody alive has even dreamed of.

[Sixgun_Sage]

Assuming, of course, that Earthdawn is Shadowrun.

Let me see if I can explain this better:

E-A-R-T-H-D-A-W-N

S-H-A-D-O-W-R-U-N

It is my mathematics that the above words are 22.2(repeating) similar, but the similarity of the spelling of the words is not indicative of the similiarity of the content. Even then, the similiarity of the content is not indicative of the relationship of the object (most biologists are still having problems with this).

Like it or not, the two are part of the same timeline, they refferance eachother and contribute to an overarching mythos.

[Draco18s]

Like it or not, the two are part of the same timeline, they refferance eachother and contribute to an overarching mythos.

Only up until 3E or so, at which point Earthdawn and ShadowRun were bought by different companies and both have ceased to make references to each other beyond continuing to use material that is/was a reference.

[Sengir]

Only up until 3E or so, at which point Earthdawn and ShadowRun were bought by different companies and both have ceased to make references to each other beyond continuing to use material that is/was a reference.

From what I've heard about it, Dawn of the Artifacts makes some heavy references to the 4th World and artifacts (who would have guessed) from that time...