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> Metropole, The world's biggest and less-known city
Backgammon
post Feb 5 2004, 04:29 PM
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I'm interested in sending my runners eventually to a field trip to Metropole, the world's biggest city, located in Amazonia. For those who don't know, Metropole is the only city in Amazonia, a sprawl that encompasses Rio and Sao Paulo and everything in between (fraggin' HUGE).

But aside from a paragraph blurb in SOTA:2063 and in Dragons, not much is known about this place (unless it's in the novels, which I don't read). So I'd like to flesh it out a bit more, mostly to make sense of the... problems such a city faces.

1) The economy:
Currently, the CIA factbook lists Brazil's economy as: " Possessing large and well-developed agricultural, mining, manufacturing, and service sectors", further defined as "agriculture: 8%, industry: 36%, services: 56%", and the industry being primarly "textiles, shoes, chemicals, cement, lumber, iron ore, tin, steel, aircraft, motor vehicles and parts, other machinery and equipment" (this is in order of importance)

With the Awakened governement of Amazonia, you can kiss anything that pollutes goodbye. So mining, refining and manufacturing are gonna take a blow, while arable land is under tight control of the Amazonian governement.

So, based on the above information, the services sector should still be strong, maybe stronger than before (actually, I only have a vague idea of what services entails, so if someone can clear that up..?). Textiles and shoes shouldn't suffer too badly, in fact I can see how clothes from Amazonia would be in demand.

Cement, lumber, iron ore, tin and steel would have dropped to almost nothing. The Amazonian governement would probably still allow carefully monitered primairy industries, with most likely "Awakened" methods of mining, but the production would have been severely cut back, so that it can't be considered a stron economic sector anymore.

Aircraft, motor vehicles and parts, other machinery and equipment could still be done, with once again reduced output.

In that light, megacorporate presence would still be there, but I'm very certain megacorporate rights would be heavily restricted. No extraterritoriality, that's for sure.

2) The people:
Well, demographics would still be the same. Although, as is mentionned in the Aztlan book, perhaps here ethnicity would remain more of a concern than metatype. All I know about present day Brazil is that it is very segregated. So it would most likely remain that way, but towards skin colour or metatype is hard to say. Metropole should however remain a city of contrasts. Very rich, healthy, clean corporate white/human class on top of a desperate, poor, sick, dirty black/ methuman class.

3) The city
This is one HUGE goddamn city. I mean... HUGE. I picture it as being the two large Rio/Sao Paulo hubs connected by more tone doned cityscape in-between. The Rio/Sao Paulo hubs would be an almagation of skyscrapers doting the sky with favellas (shanty towns) covering the ground floor. The poor get arrested/killed if they step out into the clean rich world, and the rich get mugged and killed if they step out into shadow favella world, with violence often erupting between the two classes. The city needs to be a complete contrast to the nature of Amazonia. A dense, deadly, grey, metallic and cement thing contrasted by the the dense, deadly, lush green, folliage and branches nature of Amazonia.

4) Other
I also think Metrolpole should be a hub for deckers, for no other reason than that would be cool. There is starting to be a lot of computer piracy and hackers in Brazil right now, so it could be trabsfered over to Metropole.


So, post your ideas!
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crazyivans
post Feb 5 2004, 04:55 PM
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The first thing that comes to mind when I read: Services, is Tourism. Brazil is still currently the leader of S. American tourism, so those stats figure. The problem that I see, is that Amazonia is supposed to be real Xenephobic, right? So, I think that tourism would probably not be as strong in '63. The other services, are for the people living in the city, who are employed in other capacities, like Industry. Take out the Bread and Butter, Industry and Agriculture, and you have an Economic Vacuum that won't support local Services. I don't think the CIA stats will work in '63. My thoughts on the city, is a sprawling Refugee camp of all of Amazonia's undesireables. Kind of like Australia was for the UK. It could also serve as a Portal city for the rest of the world, like Portland is for Tir Tairngire. The industry Would be more off the line, like Telesma and Medicine. I envision a city that you can enter pretty easily, but have to fight like hell to get out...

Hope that helps, it is just opinion, since I have no info to back anything up...
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Dax
post Feb 5 2004, 05:01 PM
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One thing you can't forget to take into consideration is the interaction between Metrople and the surronding Awakened land. Magic and even non magic critters probably wander into the sprawl on a regular basis, without a care in the world, smack around a few citizens, then leave again.

They have already mentioned that similar incidents occur in Athabaska all the time, and they don't even have the Amazon jungle right outside their front door.
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Frag-o Delux
post Feb 5 2004, 05:08 PM
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I happens often in that area today. They are having a hell of a time with pythons eating the family pets all the time.
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Dax
post Feb 5 2004, 05:09 PM
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Yeah, and by 2063 you can bet some of those pythons are of the shapeshifter variety.
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crazyivans
post Feb 5 2004, 05:12 PM
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Backgammon, I like your thought on it being under dome. If I was an Eco-freak, I would love to put all my Eco-enemies in an Eco-dome to keep all their Eco-disasters restricted to the Eco-domes Ecosphere. That way the Eco-unfriendlies would have to be Eco-conscious, or else be destroyed! Aah, the Eco-irony...
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Backgammon
post Feb 5 2004, 05:21 PM
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The problem with Metropole's economy is indeed that one one hand, you have this governement that puts nature before (meta)humans. But on the other hand, you have the world's biggest city. So although I would also believe in an economy that does not require many machines, like telesma, the reality is you *need* a real economy to sustain the massive amount of people that live in Metropole. So I don't believe you can cut out completely the primairy industry sector, although it has probably been gimped quite a bit.

Looking at the Major Interest list of megacorps, we have:
Aerospace
Agriculture
Biotechnology
Chemicals
Computer Engineering
Computer Science
Consumer Goods
Cybernetics
Entertainment
Finance
Heavy Industrial
Mystical Goods/Services
Military Technology
Services

So many fields are still open, such as Financial, Entertainment, Computer science, etc. Problem is, Metropole has a very large but very uneducated population. Uneducated people need to work in primairy or secondary sectors (ressource gathering or refining).

So, actually, I think this is getting very interesting. The poor uneducated masses would have no jobs open to them, while the rich corporate poeple could fuel the economy with badly needed jobs in cerebreal fields such as computers, finances, biotech, etc.

The Amazonian governement would probably recognize the fact that mos of their citizens are out of work, but if a strong schoolin system was opened up, you could educate more poeple into filling the jobs that are not against the Amazonian policies.

But for the mean time, many, many poor people would have to risk their lives talislegging, getting samples for the corp biotech divisions, etc.
I also envision a thriving guinea-pig industry. With the potential for so many biotechnology coporations and a large desperate pool of potential test subjects and a governement that probably doesn't care much what you do as long as you don't generate pollution, many people might want to risk their health for good money (well, by poor poeple standards). It has a nice cyberpunk feel to it.
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crazyivans
post Feb 5 2004, 05:28 PM
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I have the solution: Aztechnology's Soylent Green Survival Rations. Made from only the finest that Metropole has to offer, reduces population control problems as well...

Seriously though, I agree with your economic review. I was also thinking, with all those out-of-work, below the poverty level people, Organlegging has found a new capital. Also, think of the Harvest a Termite Shaman could reap. And lets not forget the main reason so many of us Runners turn to crime, MONEY.

What Mega-corps do you think should have a strong foothold?
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Frag-o Delux
post Feb 5 2004, 05:51 PM
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I don't know if any of the Big 10 would have an office there, Big Business and the Enviroment usually are at opposit corners of each other. I see a lot of smaller A rated corps, many with ties to the Big 10. Mainly working on Magic and Bio-tech, mainly becasue there is no heavy industry or educated population. I am not saying the Sounth Americans are stupid, but the population seems to be all the farmers and stuff forced to live in cities now. How much room does light industry take up, cheap labor putting together cheap electronics worked in the Phillipeens so why not here?
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Playing Games
post Feb 5 2004, 05:52 PM
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It's shadowrun.Amazonia is ran by things that don't care about human.So,how do they make money.Vices.

Sex,drugs, and rock and, or roll.

really,I see large red light districts, casininoes,achoool/drug exporting,Think vagas, with less laws,and like 30 times the size.
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Frag-o Delux
post Feb 5 2004, 05:55 PM
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I am packing my bags now! :D
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crazyivans
post Feb 5 2004, 06:03 PM
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I think one or two of the Mega's could get a foot in the door. I really think that the rest of Amazonia would try its best to limit contact with the city, as it is such a blight on the planet. So, while it would provide a Police force, most likely Military, and some Public Services, like libraries and Hospitals, the rest would be up to the Corps. Think of the vast Human Resource that a city like Metropole would provide... Ares could have vast low pollution factories, with Human workers instead of Standard Automation. Mitsuhama could run small electronics Factories, keeping their costs low because of cheap labour. I think if the any of the Big-10 were diligent enough, and wanted it enough, they could get a Complex in the City.
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spotlite
post Feb 5 2004, 06:10 PM
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Backgammon, you sound like you've researched it pretty thoroughly. Why don't you try writing a proposal and seeing if you can wangle the chapter or bit that applies for any future latin america sourcebooks? You might only need to write a few pages all told, but it does sound like a fascinating place. i'd never twigged the size of it till I started reading your posts, and you're right, it IS fraggin' huge! Plenty of scope for a campaign, maybe even its own sourcebook - what must the shadow activity be like in that place?!
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Playing Games
post Feb 5 2004, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE (crazyivans)
I think one or two of the Mega's could get a foot in the door. I really think that the rest of Amazonia would try its best to limit contact with the city, as it is such a blight on the planet. So, while it would provide a Police force, most likely Military, and some Public Services, like libraries and Hospitals, the rest would be up to the Corps. Think of the vast Human Resource that a city like Metropole would provide... Ares could have vast low pollution factories, with Human workers instead of Standard Automation. Mitsuhama could run small electronics Factories, keeping their costs low because of cheap labour. I think if the any of the Big-10 were diligent enough, and wanted it enough, they could get a Complex in the City.

No Aztech, but the other 9 could work om that city.
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crazyivans
post Feb 5 2004, 06:14 PM
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Yeah, I didn't really think about it till I looked at my Atlas, Huge! You could fit Lichtenstein in there with room to spare...
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crazyivans
post Feb 5 2004, 06:16 PM
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Hey Playing Games, Why not Aztech? Is there something I don't know? Well, there is a lot I don't know, so please, tell me why not. Bad blood or something?
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Playing Games
post Feb 5 2004, 06:49 PM
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Read,Hulpa's chapter in Dragons of the sixth world.

Also read the blurb on Manuel Torress, PG28-29
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Backgammon
post Feb 5 2004, 07:31 PM
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Thanks for the vote of confidence, spotlite. I posted on the LASB thread, we'll see what happens from there.

Yeah, definatly no Aztechnology!

Playing Games: Totally. Vices all the way. With so many unhappy people, cheap prostitution, drugs, alcohol and gambling would be very much present. It would porbably be run by local street gangs. And while we're on the subject, crime in Metropole would be majorly run by gangs. Mafia would be near non-existant, Triads and Rings also, while the Yakuza might have some sort of bastion there. Present day Sao Paulo has the largest japanese population outside of japan (surprised me too when I read that). With the focus moving to cerebreal economy, the yaks would probably see opportunity and come in with the imported japanacorp employees. But the larger gangs would still dominate the crime market. These gangs would be extremely brutal and violent, but with the limited amount of BTLs available, drugs would be the vice of choice, something street gangs can actually get into.

crazyivans: Yeah, that's true. Manual labor could replace the poluting machinery. But in order to compete with cheaper automated manufacturing in other parts of the world and because the worker pool is so huge, the wage of the workers would be disgustingly low. The conditions would be like at the beginning of the industrial revolution (yet another great cyberpunk theme). Workers dying all the time and working like dogs for a few crumbs. The dillema of the poor man would be to either give in and be a work slave for the Corps and maybe be able to feed his starving children, or resist that terrible fate and turn to risky adventuring as a talislegger, test subject or crime.

You'd also have a large number of people that would totally hate the Amazonian governement. People that made a nice living as farmers, forced to the city with no job, forced to do terrible things just to get by, and all so that a few monkeys can have more land to walk undisturbed on. I'd be pretty bitter about that. But there is nothing the could do about it. The Amazonian governement makes it pretty clear humans come second, and lobbying or riotting is just gonna get you eaten. Rebel or opposition groups wouldn't be tolerated by the Amazonian, but it'd be pretty cool if in the deep center of Metropole, in the shadows, opposition groups met in secret. There would be raids by paranormal strike teams (you thought it was bad when the Red Samurai were after you... you can't negociate with shapeshifter commandoes...), etc.
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Playing Games
post Feb 5 2004, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE (Backgammon)
Thanks for the vote of confidence, spotlite. I posted on the LASB thread, we'll see what happens from there.

Yeah, definatly no Aztechnology!

Playing Games: Totally. Vices all the way. With so many unhappy people, cheap prostitution, drugs, alcohol and gambling would be very much present. It would porbably be run by local street gangs. And while we're on the subject, crime in Metropole would be majorly run by gangs. Mafia would be near non-existant, Triads and Rings also, while the Yakuza might have some sort of bastion there. Present day Sao Paulo has the largest japanese population outside of japan (surprised me too when I read that). With the focus moving to cerebreal economy, the yaks would probably see opportunity and come in with the imported japanacorp employees. But the larger gangs would still dominate the crime market. These gangs would be extremely brutal and violent, but with the limited amount of BTLs available, drugs would be the vice of choice, something street gangs can actually get into.


Wile,you hit some of my marks,you missed a lot.Having low end places of vice only maintains povertity.

So,here is where my views change from yours.One,drugs could be legal.One kilo of cocecane will get you more money than one ton of corn.This means,from aeconomicall,and envaromntial point of view,cocecane is better.So Amaznia, exports the drugs.

High end "resorts".Places that cater to the rich.These would range from places your family would want to go,to places, that would make sailors blush.

Gambling like on large scales...


Now about gangs.That is so over done.I mean really,think of how much more evil,and scary it would be if all these things were done by family (wo)men.The drugs,were ran by people in suits,the working girls exported to rich big wigs...Gangs,have their place in the world, running enocnomies,isn't it.

As for the Fammilies,screw that.Bring in Cartels,people who look at the ends,and don't care about the means.People who don't have friends,and would kill you,if your death would get them something.
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Synner
post Feb 5 2004, 09:16 PM
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While I disagree with some of your assumptions (especially about any notion of "organized crime" like the Yakuza working in Brazil/Amazonia - go see "Cidade de Deus" for why) you've painted a picture pretty close to what I went for in Sprawl Survival Guide, where I purposefully aimed for the seedy underbelly of the "green paradise" introduced in Dragons of the Sixth World. BTW - Yes, there's a little bit more about Metropole and Amazonia in there too.

Most of what I disagree with regards the social and economic implications of having 3 great dragons and a truck load of magic to make the country prosperous. Furthermore the whole American melting pot thing is nothing compared to the way Brazilian culture has fused elements from dozens of different ethnicities, races and cultures into one distinctive Brazilian culture (rather than one schizophrenic North American one).
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crazyivans
post Feb 5 2004, 09:35 PM
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I like the way you think Backgammon. The whole Revolutionary theme brings in a real Playable aspect. It would open up the market for a lot of "Cyberpirate" players from the Carib. League, too. Any Rev. needs armament, right? I have a feeling that Magical Characters would be in high demand, seeing that most of the Native Magi would be on the side of the Eco-freaks, yeah?

What, besides Telesma, could Metropole/Amazonia produce for smuggle runs out of the city?
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Backgammon
post Feb 5 2004, 09:52 PM
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Playing Games: Better grammar and punctuation would help me understand you more, as there are a few things you said I'm not sure I get. But anyway, to answer what I think you're bringing up:
Legal drugs: well, interesting. Hadn't thought of that. But there are so many issues with legalizing hard drugs I don't think it's going to happen. Amazonia could, however, support covert drug exportation, but that's not something proper to Metropole, more of Amazonia as a whole. I'd rather not get into it.
Resorts: Agreed. Rio would have many exclusive resorts for sure, some nice, some closer to the snuff clubs of Berlin.

Synner: I saw (and loved) Cidade de Deus. You're saying there would be no organised crime in Metropole, cause the gangs are powerful enough to handle themselves? That was pretty much what I was saying also. I'm just suggesting that the Yakuza might have a small presence running bunraku parlors or whatever. Certainly noting big. Metroplole belongs to the gangs, that's undenied.

QUOTE
Most of what I disagree with regards the social and economic implications of having 3 great dragons and a truck load of magic to make the country prosperous.

What are you suggesting? Magic cannot create an economy by itselt. Nor would the dragons necessarely care. I touched upon the notion that polluting methods and machinery might be replaced by magical methods (i.e. instead of using strip mines, you can use a high-power Move Earth spell), and if you agree with that, I think we might be on to something. But magic is inherently less common than technology, so even if you could replace some methods to keep the primary and second industries going, I don't think it's possible to churn out as much production, at an equal to inferior cost, of what was going on pre-takeover. Hence, a bit of an economical problem, once again considering the massive population.

The Amazonian governement putting nature before metahumans, and on the whole ignoring metahumans as long as they behave, is something I've made central to the Metropole/Amazonia theme, although it's not explicitly stated anywhere. I've just always had that feeling. I think it's cooler that way. What do you think about that?

QUOTE
Furthermore the whole American melting pot thing is nothing compared to the way Brazilian culture has fused elements from dozens of different ethnicities, races and cultures into one distinctive Brazilian culture (rather than one schizophrenic North American one).

Ok... I haven't suggested otherwsie. I'm just saying segregation is present in Brasil, and would probably continue to be. I'm really thinking of the Aztlan book when I'm saying this, when they say people judge you by ethnicity (european, mulato, native) rather than metatype, like a spanish-descent Troll is higher up than a human native-descendant. But I'm unsure about this point.
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Backgammon
post Feb 5 2004, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE (crazyivans)
I like the way you think Backgammon. The whole Revolutionary theme brings in a real Playable aspect. It would open up the market for a lot of "Cyberpirate" players from the Carib. League, too. Any Rev. needs armament, right? I have a feeling that Magical Characters would be in high demand, seeing that most of the Native Magi would be on the side of the Eco-freaks, yeah?

What, besides Telesma, could Metropole/Amazonia produce for smuggle runs out of the city?

Well, I'm not sure the "rebels" would trust awakened characters all that much, considering where their troubles come from... they might go for an all-technology solution rather. But it's hard to ignore the power magic brings in. So I could see the rebels treating magical characters rather codly, and strictly on a need-to-know basis and generally not trusting them more than they have to, only using them lightly in their plans. It would indeed have to be external help, as local magi are probably spotted and recruited by the governement. So yeah, definatly interesting plot elements on that!

As for smuggling runs... out of the city, telesma, rare plants or animals.. not that much else, really. Brasil isn't a drug producer, it's a market.

going in, you'd have arms, the entire spectrum of the vice industry, shadowrunners or other spooks.. maybe certain kinds of technology, though that's probably too complex to move.
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Frag-o Delux
post Feb 5 2004, 10:05 PM
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Playing Games, I don't think Cocain would be a big product of Metropole.
My reason, the same reason why they are not farming the land now, the critters have kicked them out of the forrest. It takes a great deal of effort to harvest cocain in the quantities needed to fill the market. The Nacrotrafficantes do that well already, with out haveing to fight dragons, not yet at least, they are jsut fighting the rebels and what ever government that still there.

It would be far more cost effective for them (the people of Metropole) to Telesma hunt.

I don't see the Big 10 putting up much of a presents there because it would be a big target for the dragons. Why not just use A or AA rated subs to do your dirty work, a few already do that, SK doesn't have anyting in the NAN offically but they have tons of subs. With 3 dragons running the place do you think they would like if a fourth one tries to put a foot hold in? The Big 10 will be there I just don't see shinny new corporate towers rising above the skyline. Really they would have to ship everything in they can't get any natural resources to build with, if everyone is forbidden from going into the forrest. Besides putting a big tower in the dragons front lawn probably would piss them off, basicall you are saying I am here now I have power here now, what are you going to do? That is why these people build huge buildings, to show off status. Not to mention the dragons may screw your new shinny tower up because of something your company did in another country, the are eco-nuts after all. I feel the corps will keep a low profile, they will work hard to intertwine themselves into the country, but do it very quitly sort of like your rebels in the heart of the city.

Well that was my 2 cents.
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Playing Games
post Feb 5 2004, 10:42 PM
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Poppies,cocain,and nearly every plant based drug is so profitable for size,that it is profitable to use hydroponic growing.Take,the many cases of houses used to grow pot, mushrooms,poppies.... If the drugs were legal,and land was hard to come by,then whorehouses would be made/used for it.

As for the the idea that hard drugs wouldn't be legal.Look in the real world, there are countries that do not out law them today.No,this doesn't cause prices to drop.

Now in shadowrun,there is no real global force that can stop countries from doing what they want.Drugs sell,andvyou do not need large amounts to notice the influx of money.
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