I'm interested in sending my runners eventually to a field trip to Metropole, the world's biggest city, located in Amazonia. For those who don't know, Metropole is the only city in Amazonia, a sprawl that encompasses Rio and Sao Paulo and everything in between (fraggin' HUGE).
But aside from a paragraph blurb in SOTA:2063 and in Dragons, not much is known about this place (unless it's in the novels, which I don't read). So I'd like to flesh it out a bit more, mostly to make sense of the... problems such a city faces.
1) The economy:
Currently, the CIA factbook lists Brazil's economy as: " Possessing large and well-developed agricultural, mining, manufacturing, and service sectors", further defined as "agriculture: 8%, industry: 36%, services: 56%", and the industry being primarly "textiles, shoes, chemicals, cement, lumber, iron ore, tin, steel, aircraft, motor vehicles and parts, other machinery and equipment" (this is in order of importance)
With the Awakened governement of Amazonia, you can kiss anything that pollutes goodbye. So mining, refining and manufacturing are gonna take a blow, while arable land is under tight control of the Amazonian governement.
So, based on the above information, the services sector should still be strong, maybe stronger than before (actually, I only have a vague idea of what services entails, so if someone can clear that up..?). Textiles and shoes shouldn't suffer too badly, in fact I can see how clothes from Amazonia would be in demand.
Cement, lumber, iron ore, tin and steel would have dropped to almost nothing. The Amazonian governement would probably still allow carefully monitered primairy industries, with most likely "Awakened" methods of mining, but the production would have been severely cut back, so that it can't be considered a stron economic sector anymore.
Aircraft, motor vehicles and parts, other machinery and equipment could still be done, with once again reduced output.
In that light, megacorporate presence would still be there, but I'm very certain megacorporate rights would be heavily restricted. No extraterritoriality, that's for sure.
2) The people:
Well, demographics would still be the same. Although, as is mentionned in the Aztlan book, perhaps here ethnicity would remain more of a concern than metatype. All I know about present day Brazil is that it is very segregated. So it would most likely remain that way, but towards skin colour or metatype is hard to say. Metropole should however remain a city of contrasts. Very rich, healthy, clean corporate white/human class on top of a desperate, poor, sick, dirty black/ methuman class.
3) The city
This is one HUGE goddamn city. I mean... HUGE. I picture it as being the two large Rio/Sao Paulo hubs connected by more tone doned cityscape in-between. The Rio/Sao Paulo hubs would be an almagation of skyscrapers doting the sky with favellas (shanty towns) covering the ground floor. The poor get arrested/killed if they step out into the clean rich world, and the rich get mugged and killed if they step out into shadow favella world, with violence often erupting between the two classes. The city needs to be a complete contrast to the nature of Amazonia. A dense, deadly, grey, metallic and cement thing contrasted by the the dense, deadly, lush green, folliage and branches nature of Amazonia.
4) Other
I also think Metrolpole should be a hub for deckers, for no other reason than that would be cool. There is starting to be a lot of computer piracy and hackers in Brazil right now, so it could be trabsfered over to Metropole.
So, post your ideas!
Full Version: Metropole
The first thing that comes to mind when I read: Services, is Tourism. Brazil is still currently the leader of S. American tourism, so those stats figure. The problem that I see, is that Amazonia is supposed to be real Xenephobic, right? So, I think that tourism would probably not be as strong in '63. The other services, are for the people living in the city, who are employed in other capacities, like Industry. Take out the Bread and Butter, Industry and Agriculture, and you have an Economic Vacuum that won't support local Services. I don't think the CIA stats will work in '63. My thoughts on the city, is a sprawling Refugee camp of all of Amazonia's undesireables. Kind of like Australia was for the UK. It could also serve as a Portal city for the rest of the world, like Portland is for Tir Tairngire. The industry Would be more off the line, like Telesma and Medicine. I envision a city that you can enter pretty easily, but have to fight like hell to get out...
Hope that helps, it is just opinion, since I have no info to back anything up...
Hope that helps, it is just opinion, since I have no info to back anything up...
One thing you can't forget to take into consideration is the interaction between Metrople and the surronding Awakened land. Magic and even non magic critters probably wander into the sprawl on a regular basis, without a care in the world, smack around a few citizens, then leave again.
They have already mentioned that similar incidents occur in Athabaska all the time, and they don't even have the Amazon jungle right outside their front door.
They have already mentioned that similar incidents occur in Athabaska all the time, and they don't even have the Amazon jungle right outside their front door.
I happens often in that area today. They are having a hell of a time with pythons eating the family pets all the time.
Yeah, and by 2063 you can bet some of those pythons are of the shapeshifter variety.
Backgammon, I like your thought on it being under dome. If I was an Eco-freak, I would love to put all my Eco-enemies in an Eco-dome to keep all their Eco-disasters restricted to the Eco-domes Ecosphere. That way the Eco-unfriendlies would have to be Eco-conscious, or else be destroyed! Aah, the Eco-irony...
The problem with Metropole's economy is indeed that one one hand, you have this governement that puts nature before (meta)humans. But on the other hand, you have the world's biggest city. So although I would also believe in an economy that does not require many machines, like telesma, the reality is you *need* a real economy to sustain the massive amount of people that live in Metropole. So I don't believe you can cut out completely the primairy industry sector, although it has probably been gimped quite a bit.
Looking at the Major Interest list of megacorps, we have:
Aerospace
Agriculture
Biotechnology
Chemicals
Computer Engineering
Computer Science
Consumer Goods
Cybernetics
Entertainment
Finance
Heavy Industrial
Mystical Goods/Services
Military Technology
Services
So many fields are still open, such as Financial, Entertainment, Computer science, etc. Problem is, Metropole has a very large but very uneducated population. Uneducated people need to work in primairy or secondary sectors (ressource gathering or refining).
So, actually, I think this is getting very interesting. The poor uneducated masses would have no jobs open to them, while the rich corporate poeple could fuel the economy with badly needed jobs in cerebreal fields such as computers, finances, biotech, etc.
The Amazonian governement would probably recognize the fact that mos of their citizens are out of work, but if a strong schoolin system was opened up, you could educate more poeple into filling the jobs that are not against the Amazonian policies.
But for the mean time, many, many poor people would have to risk their lives talislegging, getting samples for the corp biotech divisions, etc.
I also envision a thriving guinea-pig industry. With the potential for so many biotechnology coporations and a large desperate pool of potential test subjects and a governement that probably doesn't care much what you do as long as you don't generate pollution, many people might want to risk their health for good money (well, by poor poeple standards). It has a nice cyberpunk feel to it.
Looking at the Major Interest list of megacorps, we have:
Aerospace
Agriculture
Biotechnology
Chemicals
Computer Engineering
Computer Science
Consumer Goods
Cybernetics
Entertainment
Finance
Heavy Industrial
Mystical Goods/Services
Military Technology
Services
So many fields are still open, such as Financial, Entertainment, Computer science, etc. Problem is, Metropole has a very large but very uneducated population. Uneducated people need to work in primairy or secondary sectors (ressource gathering or refining).
So, actually, I think this is getting very interesting. The poor uneducated masses would have no jobs open to them, while the rich corporate poeple could fuel the economy with badly needed jobs in cerebreal fields such as computers, finances, biotech, etc.
The Amazonian governement would probably recognize the fact that mos of their citizens are out of work, but if a strong schoolin system was opened up, you could educate more poeple into filling the jobs that are not against the Amazonian policies.
But for the mean time, many, many poor people would have to risk their lives talislegging, getting samples for the corp biotech divisions, etc.
I also envision a thriving guinea-pig industry. With the potential for so many biotechnology coporations and a large desperate pool of potential test subjects and a governement that probably doesn't care much what you do as long as you don't generate pollution, many people might want to risk their health for good money (well, by poor poeple standards). It has a nice cyberpunk feel to it.
I have the solution: Aztechnology's Soylent Green Survival Rations. Made from only the finest that Metropole has to offer, reduces population control problems as well...
Seriously though, I agree with your economic review. I was also thinking, with all those out-of-work, below the poverty level people, Organlegging has found a new capital. Also, think of the Harvest a Termite Shaman could reap. And lets not forget the main reason so many of us Runners turn to crime, MONEY.
What Mega-corps do you think should have a strong foothold?
Seriously though, I agree with your economic review. I was also thinking, with all those out-of-work, below the poverty level people, Organlegging has found a new capital. Also, think of the Harvest a Termite Shaman could reap. And lets not forget the main reason so many of us Runners turn to crime, MONEY.
What Mega-corps do you think should have a strong foothold?
I don't know if any of the Big 10 would have an office there, Big Business and the Enviroment usually are at opposit corners of each other. I see a lot of smaller A rated corps, many with ties to the Big 10. Mainly working on Magic and Bio-tech, mainly becasue there is no heavy industry or educated population. I am not saying the Sounth Americans are stupid, but the population seems to be all the farmers and stuff forced to live in cities now. How much room does light industry take up, cheap labor putting together cheap electronics worked in the Phillipeens so why not here?
It's shadowrun.Amazonia is ran by things that don't care about human.So,how do they make money.Vices.
Sex,drugs, and rock and, or roll.
really,I see large red light districts, casininoes,achoool/drug exporting,Think vagas, with less laws,and like 30 times the size.
Sex,drugs, and rock and, or roll.
really,I see large red light districts, casininoes,achoool/drug exporting,Think vagas, with less laws,and like 30 times the size.
I am packing my bags now! 
I think one or two of the Mega's could get a foot in the door. I really think that the rest of Amazonia would try its best to limit contact with the city, as it is such a blight on the planet. So, while it would provide a Police force, most likely Military, and some Public Services, like libraries and Hospitals, the rest would be up to the Corps. Think of the vast Human Resource that a city like Metropole would provide... Ares could have vast low pollution factories, with Human workers instead of Standard Automation. Mitsuhama could run small electronics Factories, keeping their costs low because of cheap labour. I think if the any of the Big-10 were diligent enough, and wanted it enough, they could get a Complex in the City.
Backgammon, you sound like you've researched it pretty thoroughly. Why don't you try writing a proposal and seeing if you can wangle the chapter or bit that applies for any future latin america sourcebooks? You might only need to write a few pages all told, but it does sound like a fascinating place. i'd never twigged the size of it till I started reading your posts, and you're right, it IS fraggin' huge! Plenty of scope for a campaign, maybe even its own sourcebook - what must the shadow activity be like in that place?!
| QUOTE (crazyivans) |
| I think one or two of the Mega's could get a foot in the door. I really think that the rest of Amazonia would try its best to limit contact with the city, as it is such a blight on the planet. So, while it would provide a Police force, most likely Military, and some Public Services, like libraries and Hospitals, the rest would be up to the Corps. Think of the vast Human Resource that a city like Metropole would provide... Ares could have vast low pollution factories, with Human workers instead of Standard Automation. Mitsuhama could run small electronics Factories, keeping their costs low because of cheap labour. I think if the any of the Big-10 were diligent enough, and wanted it enough, they could get a Complex in the City. |
No Aztech, but the other 9 could work om that city.
Yeah, I didn't really think about it till I looked at my Atlas, Huge! You could fit Lichtenstein in there with room to spare...
Hey Playing Games, Why not Aztech? Is there something I don't know? Well, there is a lot I don't know, so please, tell me why not. Bad blood or something?
Read,Hulpa's chapter in Dragons of the sixth world.
Also read the blurb on Manuel Torress, PG28-29
Also read the blurb on Manuel Torress, PG28-29
Thanks for the vote of confidence, spotlite. I posted on the LASB thread, we'll see what happens from there.
Yeah, definatly no Aztechnology!
Playing Games: Totally. Vices all the way. With so many unhappy people, cheap prostitution, drugs, alcohol and gambling would be very much present. It would porbably be run by local street gangs. And while we're on the subject, crime in Metropole would be majorly run by gangs. Mafia would be near non-existant, Triads and Rings also, while the Yakuza might have some sort of bastion there. Present day Sao Paulo has the largest japanese population outside of japan (surprised me too when I read that). With the focus moving to cerebreal economy, the yaks would probably see opportunity and come in with the imported japanacorp employees. But the larger gangs would still dominate the crime market. These gangs would be extremely brutal and violent, but with the limited amount of BTLs available, drugs would be the vice of choice, something street gangs can actually get into.
crazyivans: Yeah, that's true. Manual labor could replace the poluting machinery. But in order to compete with cheaper automated manufacturing in other parts of the world and because the worker pool is so huge, the wage of the workers would be disgustingly low. The conditions would be like at the beginning of the industrial revolution (yet another great cyberpunk theme). Workers dying all the time and working like dogs for a few crumbs. The dillema of the poor man would be to either give in and be a work slave for the Corps and maybe be able to feed his starving children, or resist that terrible fate and turn to risky adventuring as a talislegger, test subject or crime.
You'd also have a large number of people that would totally hate the Amazonian governement. People that made a nice living as farmers, forced to the city with no job, forced to do terrible things just to get by, and all so that a few monkeys can have more land to walk undisturbed on. I'd be pretty bitter about that. But there is nothing the could do about it. The Amazonian governement makes it pretty clear humans come second, and lobbying or riotting is just gonna get you eaten. Rebel or opposition groups wouldn't be tolerated by the Amazonian, but it'd be pretty cool if in the deep center of Metropole, in the shadows, opposition groups met in secret. There would be raids by paranormal strike teams (you thought it was bad when the Red Samurai were after you... you can't negociate with shapeshifter commandoes...), etc.
Yeah, definatly no Aztechnology!
Playing Games: Totally. Vices all the way. With so many unhappy people, cheap prostitution, drugs, alcohol and gambling would be very much present. It would porbably be run by local street gangs. And while we're on the subject, crime in Metropole would be majorly run by gangs. Mafia would be near non-existant, Triads and Rings also, while the Yakuza might have some sort of bastion there. Present day Sao Paulo has the largest japanese population outside of japan (surprised me too when I read that). With the focus moving to cerebreal economy, the yaks would probably see opportunity and come in with the imported japanacorp employees. But the larger gangs would still dominate the crime market. These gangs would be extremely brutal and violent, but with the limited amount of BTLs available, drugs would be the vice of choice, something street gangs can actually get into.
crazyivans: Yeah, that's true. Manual labor could replace the poluting machinery. But in order to compete with cheaper automated manufacturing in other parts of the world and because the worker pool is so huge, the wage of the workers would be disgustingly low. The conditions would be like at the beginning of the industrial revolution (yet another great cyberpunk theme). Workers dying all the time and working like dogs for a few crumbs. The dillema of the poor man would be to either give in and be a work slave for the Corps and maybe be able to feed his starving children, or resist that terrible fate and turn to risky adventuring as a talislegger, test subject or crime.
You'd also have a large number of people that would totally hate the Amazonian governement. People that made a nice living as farmers, forced to the city with no job, forced to do terrible things just to get by, and all so that a few monkeys can have more land to walk undisturbed on. I'd be pretty bitter about that. But there is nothing the could do about it. The Amazonian governement makes it pretty clear humans come second, and lobbying or riotting is just gonna get you eaten. Rebel or opposition groups wouldn't be tolerated by the Amazonian, but it'd be pretty cool if in the deep center of Metropole, in the shadows, opposition groups met in secret. There would be raids by paranormal strike teams (you thought it was bad when the Red Samurai were after you... you can't negociate with shapeshifter commandoes...), etc.
| QUOTE (Backgammon) |
| Thanks for the vote of confidence, spotlite. I posted on the LASB thread, we'll see what happens from there. Yeah, definatly no Aztechnology! Playing Games: Totally. Vices all the way. With so many unhappy people, cheap prostitution, drugs, alcohol and gambling would be very much present. It would porbably be run by local street gangs. And while we're on the subject, crime in Metropole would be majorly run by gangs. Mafia would be near non-existant, Triads and Rings also, while the Yakuza might have some sort of bastion there. Present day Sao Paulo has the largest japanese population outside of japan (surprised me too when I read that). With the focus moving to cerebreal economy, the yaks would probably see opportunity and come in with the imported japanacorp employees. But the larger gangs would still dominate the crime market. These gangs would be extremely brutal and violent, but with the limited amount of BTLs available, drugs would be the vice of choice, something street gangs can actually get into. |
Wile,you hit some of my marks,you missed a lot.Having low end places of vice only maintains povertity.
So,here is where my views change from yours.One,drugs could be legal.One kilo of cocecane will get you more money than one ton of corn.This means,from aeconomicall,and envaromntial point of view,cocecane is better.So Amaznia, exports the drugs.
High end "resorts".Places that cater to the rich.These would range from places your family would want to go,to places, that would make sailors blush.
Gambling like on large scales...
Now about gangs.That is so over done.I mean really,think of how much more evil,and scary it would be if all these things were done by family (wo)men.The drugs,were ran by people in suits,the working girls exported to rich big wigs...Gangs,have their place in the world, running enocnomies,isn't it.
As for the Fammilies,screw that.Bring in Cartels,people who look at the ends,and don't care about the means.People who don't have friends,and would kill you,if your death would get them something.
While I disagree with some of your assumptions (especially about any notion of "organized crime" like the Yakuza working in Brazil/Amazonia - go see "Cidade de Deus" for why) you've painted a picture pretty close to what I went for in Sprawl Survival Guide, where I purposefully aimed for the seedy underbelly of the "green paradise" introduced in Dragons of the Sixth World. BTW - Yes, there's a little bit more about Metropole and Amazonia in there too.
Most of what I disagree with regards the social and economic implications of having 3 great dragons and a truck load of magic to make the country prosperous. Furthermore the whole American melting pot thing is nothing compared to the way Brazilian culture has fused elements from dozens of different ethnicities, races and cultures into one distinctive Brazilian culture (rather than one schizophrenic North American one).
Most of what I disagree with regards the social and economic implications of having 3 great dragons and a truck load of magic to make the country prosperous. Furthermore the whole American melting pot thing is nothing compared to the way Brazilian culture has fused elements from dozens of different ethnicities, races and cultures into one distinctive Brazilian culture (rather than one schizophrenic North American one).
I like the way you think Backgammon. The whole Revolutionary theme brings in a real Playable aspect. It would open up the market for a lot of "Cyberpirate" players from the Carib. League, too. Any Rev. needs armament, right? I have a feeling that Magical Characters would be in high demand, seeing that most of the Native Magi would be on the side of the Eco-freaks, yeah?
What, besides Telesma, could Metropole/Amazonia produce for smuggle runs out of the city?
What, besides Telesma, could Metropole/Amazonia produce for smuggle runs out of the city?
Playing Games: Better grammar and punctuation would help me understand you more, as there are a few things you said I'm not sure I get. But anyway, to answer what I think you're bringing up:
Legal drugs: well, interesting. Hadn't thought of that. But there are so many issues with legalizing hard drugs I don't think it's going to happen. Amazonia could, however, support covert drug exportation, but that's not something proper to Metropole, more of Amazonia as a whole. I'd rather not get into it.
Resorts: Agreed. Rio would have many exclusive resorts for sure, some nice, some closer to the snuff clubs of Berlin.
Synner: I saw (and loved) Cidade de Deus. You're saying there would be no organised crime in Metropole, cause the gangs are powerful enough to handle themselves? That was pretty much what I was saying also. I'm just suggesting that the Yakuza might have a small presence running bunraku parlors or whatever. Certainly noting big. Metroplole belongs to the gangs, that's undenied.
Legal drugs: well, interesting. Hadn't thought of that. But there are so many issues with legalizing hard drugs I don't think it's going to happen. Amazonia could, however, support covert drug exportation, but that's not something proper to Metropole, more of Amazonia as a whole. I'd rather not get into it.
Resorts: Agreed. Rio would have many exclusive resorts for sure, some nice, some closer to the snuff clubs of Berlin.
Synner: I saw (and loved) Cidade de Deus. You're saying there would be no organised crime in Metropole, cause the gangs are powerful enough to handle themselves? That was pretty much what I was saying also. I'm just suggesting that the Yakuza might have a small presence running bunraku parlors or whatever. Certainly noting big. Metroplole belongs to the gangs, that's undenied.
| QUOTE |
| Most of what I disagree with regards the social and economic implications of having 3 great dragons and a truck load of magic to make the country prosperous. |
What are you suggesting? Magic cannot create an economy by itselt. Nor would the dragons necessarely care. I touched upon the notion that polluting methods and machinery might be replaced by magical methods (i.e. instead of using strip mines, you can use a high-power Move Earth spell), and if you agree with that, I think we might be on to something. But magic is inherently less common than technology, so even if you could replace some methods to keep the primary and second industries going, I don't think it's possible to churn out as much production, at an equal to inferior cost, of what was going on pre-takeover. Hence, a bit of an economical problem, once again considering the massive population.
The Amazonian governement putting nature before metahumans, and on the whole ignoring metahumans as long as they behave, is something I've made central to the Metropole/Amazonia theme, although it's not explicitly stated anywhere. I've just always had that feeling. I think it's cooler that way. What do you think about that?
| QUOTE |
| Furthermore the whole American melting pot thing is nothing compared to the way Brazilian culture has fused elements from dozens of different ethnicities, races and cultures into one distinctive Brazilian culture (rather than one schizophrenic North American one). |
Ok... I haven't suggested otherwsie. I'm just saying segregation is present in Brasil, and would probably continue to be. I'm really thinking of the Aztlan book when I'm saying this, when they say people judge you by ethnicity (european, mulato, native) rather than metatype, like a spanish-descent Troll is higher up than a human native-descendant. But I'm unsure about this point.
| QUOTE (crazyivans) |
| I like the way you think Backgammon. The whole Revolutionary theme brings in a real Playable aspect. It would open up the market for a lot of "Cyberpirate" players from the Carib. League, too. Any Rev. needs armament, right? I have a feeling that Magical Characters would be in high demand, seeing that most of the Native Magi would be on the side of the Eco-freaks, yeah? What, besides Telesma, could Metropole/Amazonia produce for smuggle runs out of the city? |
Well, I'm not sure the "rebels" would trust awakened characters all that much, considering where their troubles come from... they might go for an all-technology solution rather. But it's hard to ignore the power magic brings in. So I could see the rebels treating magical characters rather codly, and strictly on a need-to-know basis and generally not trusting them more than they have to, only using them lightly in their plans. It would indeed have to be external help, as local magi are probably spotted and recruited by the governement. So yeah, definatly interesting plot elements on that!
As for smuggling runs... out of the city, telesma, rare plants or animals.. not that much else, really. Brasil isn't a drug producer, it's a market.
going in, you'd have arms, the entire spectrum of the vice industry, shadowrunners or other spooks.. maybe certain kinds of technology, though that's probably too complex to move.
Playing Games, I don't think Cocain would be a big product of Metropole.
My reason, the same reason why they are not farming the land now, the critters have kicked them out of the forrest. It takes a great deal of effort to harvest cocain in the quantities needed to fill the market. The Nacrotrafficantes do that well already, with out haveing to fight dragons, not yet at least, they are jsut fighting the rebels and what ever government that still there.
It would be far more cost effective for them (the people of Metropole) to Telesma hunt.
I don't see the Big 10 putting up much of a presents there because it would be a big target for the dragons. Why not just use A or AA rated subs to do your dirty work, a few already do that, SK doesn't have anyting in the NAN offically but they have tons of subs. With 3 dragons running the place do you think they would like if a fourth one tries to put a foot hold in? The Big 10 will be there I just don't see shinny new corporate towers rising above the skyline. Really they would have to ship everything in they can't get any natural resources to build with, if everyone is forbidden from going into the forrest. Besides putting a big tower in the dragons front lawn probably would piss them off, basicall you are saying I am here now I have power here now, what are you going to do? That is why these people build huge buildings, to show off status. Not to mention the dragons may screw your new shinny tower up because of something your company did in another country, the are eco-nuts after all. I feel the corps will keep a low profile, they will work hard to intertwine themselves into the country, but do it very quitly sort of like your rebels in the heart of the city.
Well that was my 2 cents.
My reason, the same reason why they are not farming the land now, the critters have kicked them out of the forrest. It takes a great deal of effort to harvest cocain in the quantities needed to fill the market. The Nacrotrafficantes do that well already, with out haveing to fight dragons, not yet at least, they are jsut fighting the rebels and what ever government that still there.
It would be far more cost effective for them (the people of Metropole) to Telesma hunt.
I don't see the Big 10 putting up much of a presents there because it would be a big target for the dragons. Why not just use A or AA rated subs to do your dirty work, a few already do that, SK doesn't have anyting in the NAN offically but they have tons of subs. With 3 dragons running the place do you think they would like if a fourth one tries to put a foot hold in? The Big 10 will be there I just don't see shinny new corporate towers rising above the skyline. Really they would have to ship everything in they can't get any natural resources to build with, if everyone is forbidden from going into the forrest. Besides putting a big tower in the dragons front lawn probably would piss them off, basicall you are saying I am here now I have power here now, what are you going to do? That is why these people build huge buildings, to show off status. Not to mention the dragons may screw your new shinny tower up because of something your company did in another country, the are eco-nuts after all. I feel the corps will keep a low profile, they will work hard to intertwine themselves into the country, but do it very quitly sort of like your rebels in the heart of the city.
Well that was my 2 cents.
Poppies,cocain,and nearly every plant based drug is so profitable for size,that it is profitable to use hydroponic growing.Take,the many cases of houses used to grow pot, mushrooms,poppies.... If the drugs were legal,and land was hard to come by,then whorehouses would be made/used for it.
As for the the idea that hard drugs wouldn't be legal.Look in the real world, there are countries that do not out law them today.No,this doesn't cause prices to drop.
Now in shadowrun,there is no real global force that can stop countries from doing what they want.Drugs sell,andvyou do not need large amounts to notice the influx of money.
As for the the idea that hard drugs wouldn't be legal.Look in the real world, there are countries that do not out law them today.No,this doesn't cause prices to drop.
Now in shadowrun,there is no real global force that can stop countries from doing what they want.Drugs sell,andvyou do not need large amounts to notice the influx of money.
| QUOTE (crazyivans) |
| Hey Playing Games, Why not Aztech? Is there something I don't know? Well, there is a lot I don't know, so please, tell me why not. Bad blood or something? |
To be less trite that PG, because they've fought an overt war, are involved in significant low-intensity conflict, because Amazonia has aided the Yucatan rebellion for years, and because the dragons who run Amazonia and the people who run Aztlan just hate each other for a myriad of reasons.
Also, Amazonia is one of maybe 5 countries which hasn't signed onto the Business Recognition Accords. They aren't friendly to the Big Ten, and the Big Ten isn't friendly to them. That's why, for example, Novatech SA is based in Argentina.
Persoanlly, I think that regardless of principle, there has to be some economy unless the troika are so magnanimous as to provide all of the people in this city with some way to survive. As far as I'm concerned, such a city should not exist without industry unless it's a vice-ridden hellhole like BG's description. Even then, depending on your definition of pollution it could still be a mess. I mean, imagine how acrid a human body must be when it burns.
Re: Where can you employ the uneducated masses?
Backgammon, since you mentioned you wanted to give Metropole a big decker community ...
You don't need a particularly educated guy to edit graphics, so my take would be that Metropole is the place where everybody gets his rendering done; matrix programmers send a few ideas of the visual representation of anything they develop to Brazil, skilled workers make a rough representation, computer farms render it, and non-skilled workers edit everything for little errors and make the whole thing more fluid. Just like the "slave artists" of modern cartoon creators!
Thus we have a huge populace of semi-computer-literate people to recruit those deckers from. And they have the incentive to commit matrix crime, as they are paid poorly.
Where can I find this "Cidade de Deus?"
Backgammon, since you mentioned you wanted to give Metropole a big decker community ...
You don't need a particularly educated guy to edit graphics, so my take would be that Metropole is the place where everybody gets his rendering done; matrix programmers send a few ideas of the visual representation of anything they develop to Brazil, skilled workers make a rough representation, computer farms render it, and non-skilled workers edit everything for little errors and make the whole thing more fluid. Just like the "slave artists" of modern cartoon creators!
Thus we have a huge populace of semi-computer-literate people to recruit those deckers from. And they have the incentive to commit matrix crime, as they are paid poorly.
Where can I find this "Cidade de Deus?"
It's called "City of God" in English, and it's been on DVD for a while now. It's also still in some theaters.
And its up for several Oscars.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| And its up for several Oscars. |
Aye, it was a big shock for many that the director of City of God was nominated, instead of the more mainstream Seabiscuit. The movie made a good splash in the critic circles, despite having almost zero promotion.
Anyone who wants to see the Brazilian/Amazonian underworld should take a look at that movie. If you want to learn about the landlord vs. peasant conflict, rent The Burning Season - The Chico Mendes Story (with Raul Julia as Chico Mendes), you won't regret it. I've also heard of a documentary called Bus 174.
BTW, here are City of God's nominations:
-Cinematography
-Directing
-Film Editing
-Writing (Adapted Screenplay) (the link has a picture of the movie)
Thank you for the info Crimsondude, I was just going to bite the bullet and guess at it...
The Burning Season is a GREAT flick, talk about moving, huh?
As for the Decker thought, since everyone pretty much agrees on no Mega's, how about one of the AA corps creating an underworld school for Deckers and Otaku? This would please the Amazonian Gov. to no end, because most of the hacking could be directed at the big 10. It would give said corp deep shadow connections, and it would provide a Mecca for Deckers worldwide, who want to learn more of their trade, without Megacorp affiliation. Many of the lower class Amazonians would do all they could to gain acceptance, because it may be their only ticket out of the gutter. Which corp should it be?
The Burning Season is a GREAT flick, talk about moving, huh?
As for the Decker thought, since everyone pretty much agrees on no Mega's, how about one of the AA corps creating an underworld school for Deckers and Otaku? This would please the Amazonian Gov. to no end, because most of the hacking could be directed at the big 10. It would give said corp deep shadow connections, and it would provide a Mecca for Deckers worldwide, who want to learn more of their trade, without Megacorp affiliation. Many of the lower class Amazonians would do all they could to gain acceptance, because it may be their only ticket out of the gutter. Which corp should it be?
| QUOTE (crazyivans) |
| As for the Decker thought, since everyone pretty much agrees on no Mega's, how about one of the AA corps creating an underworld school for Deckers and Otaku? This would please the Amazonian Gov. to no end, because most of the hacking could be directed at the big 10. It would give said corp deep shadow connections, and it would provide a Mecca for Deckers worldwide, who want to learn more of their trade, without Megacorp affiliation. Many of the lower class Amazonians would do all they could to gain acceptance, because it may be their only ticket out of the gutter. Which corp should it be? |
I think Megas have their place, it's just not the megas we know here. Subsdiaries of a Mega IS a mega. Just that extraterritoriality is not given and the gov keeps a close eye on them and takes a good chunk of tax money. The conditions are less appealing, so multinationnals won't have major enterprises going, but there is still a huge market and a few advantages to set up shop, just that they understand they'll have to play by the rules.
Anyway, to go with you idea, I don't see why the governement wouldn't take care of creating a decker culture themselves by being lax on matrix crime prosecution (that is, decking not aimed at them). There is a lot of computer piracy in brasil these days, in part due to the fact the governement doesn't really care if people rip off Microsoft or piss off the americans a bit. The same thing can continue in Amazonia, especially among the middle class youth, who would probably prefer the Matrix to their cramped existance and who are being schooled into being good Matrix users anyway, since most of the economy is leaning that way.
Isn't in Target Wasteland, the Shiawase Corporation (which is AAA, last time I checked) have a hydro-plant in one of the channels. And Amazonian is itching for them to screw up, however they need the power so it stays?
Then there could be the more Tir Tairngire/Aztlan approach, allow the the corporations in, though by use of the subsidiary, and the nation gets so many shares for just starting in the country.
Just a few ideas to have out there.
Then there could be the more Tir Tairngire/Aztlan approach, allow the the corporations in, though by use of the subsidiary, and the nation gets so many shares for just starting in the country.
Just a few ideas to have out there.
Bio-engineered/modified Awakened Drugs (BADs) are the way to go in a Amazonia... and the Ghost Cartels (forgot them have we?
) would be all over it. The only real problem for the drug trade is the easy access and cost effectiveness of the BTL trade. On the other hand BADS can be marketed as a "natural" high.
) would be all over it. The only real problem for the drug trade is the easy access and cost effectiveness of the BTL trade. On the other hand BADS can be marketed as a "natural" high.
I didn't forget them, in fact I mentioned them in one of my posts, they are called The Ghost Cartels and Narcotrafficantes(the term I used).
The Ghost Cartels already say their drugs are better becasue they are "natural" in fact I believe in the Underworld Source book they say the PR campiang is reminisent of the old Wall Street advertising firms. In fact they have forced the puppet government in their country to big limits on sinsense decks to make sure they don't get a hold on the populace.
The problem I still see with doing the drug thing in the Amazon is that the people were kicked out of the Amazon by the Dragons and Spririts and such. They wanna be drug kingpins will have to compete witht he same forces who threw them out before to farm the cocain. With that much fire power trying to keep you out is make harvestiong drugs very hard and less cost effective. Were the Ghost Cartels are only fighting rebels, the Ghost Cartels already have well maintained network for farming and delivery, not to mention the enemy they fight will die when shot, and the Cartels make enough money to buy the big guns.
Now they may make a deal with Cartels to do the bio work (making the BADs) for them and grow the stuff in the Cartel fields, but I find it hard to think the Dragons would kick everyone out of the jungle only to let them back in to grow drugs.
You could use Hydroponics like Playing Games mentioned, the problem with poppies and cocoa leaves is, cocoa leaves are from trees, I don't know if you can grow it in a water tank in your basement, you could grow poppies, seeing that they are a relatively small plant, the problem with that though is one poppie produces little of the product and would require vast farms to produce enough to meet a percentage of demand. The good thing about hydroponics is you can all year round. The side effect though is you would need vast amounts of water, fertilizers adn electricity. Water maynot be a problem, the fertilizers can be, you need very specific stuff not to screw up your very exspensive set up and you may have a hard time getting the quantities needed imported, also the electricity, to run a descent size hydroponics farm would require a HUGE soem of electricity, and with a coutry that hates pollution getting electricity when you want maybe a problem. Those three things, not to mention the smell and heat a hydroponics farm makes may alert the authorities to your clandestine farm rather quickly. If the government cares.
Which brings to another point, electricity. How is it generated and is there any regulations on it. Since there is (I would think) huge anti-pollution laws, there are not many ways left to make electricity. You could solar it. Wind is out since you would need to clear large tracts of land. Any fossil fuel system I would think has long been destroyed. Hydroelectric, well you have dams and tidal generators, I could only imagine the Dragons foaming at the mouth ready to destroy any dam, which leaves tidal generators, does Amazonia have big currents off shore for this type of system? Now Geothermal, if the city is not sitting on a volcano then I don't see much help with them, because the dragons and such will not allow you to develope in the forest. Which I think only leaves Nuclear, any chance a few sections of town can be razed so you can put a few Nuke sites in town?
The labor problem could be sort of solved by shipping in raw parts, parts that have been made but need assembling. There are a lot of products today that or manufactured in one country and assembeled in another. Some comoanies go as far to make the parts in one country, assemble them in other then ship them again to a third for packaging before they hit the selves at your local Stuffer shack. So some of these A or AA might just be a bunch of kids and elderly sittign around putting together the next wave of fads gettignready to storm the selves just in time for Christmas, or theyare just putting them in the boxes. Some companies willbe looking for a leg up over Aztech and the Japanacorps. Aztech lead the world in consumer products, I would think they have a built in slave market to produce their wares. The Japanacorps have the Phillippeens (at least right now) so Ares, Cross, NovaTech and the rest just might have large factories of slaves puttig together trinkets for the civilized world to use and throw away.
I like the idea of art farms like what america does with the Asains for cartoons (as a game idea not the fact we slave drive people so I can watch Futurama or Family Guy).
What if the people of htis area started a migration to the sea? I don't know anyting really about this area, but what if they started making a living off the sea in a much bigger way then before. With the loss of their farm lands they will need another sorce of food, they would become something like the Japan of the west.
Sorry for the long post, ideas just kept coming.
The Ghost Cartels already say their drugs are better becasue they are "natural" in fact I believe in the Underworld Source book they say the PR campiang is reminisent of the old Wall Street advertising firms. In fact they have forced the puppet government in their country to big limits on sinsense decks to make sure they don't get a hold on the populace.
The problem I still see with doing the drug thing in the Amazon is that the people were kicked out of the Amazon by the Dragons and Spririts and such. They wanna be drug kingpins will have to compete witht he same forces who threw them out before to farm the cocain. With that much fire power trying to keep you out is make harvestiong drugs very hard and less cost effective. Were the Ghost Cartels are only fighting rebels, the Ghost Cartels already have well maintained network for farming and delivery, not to mention the enemy they fight will die when shot, and the Cartels make enough money to buy the big guns.
Now they may make a deal with Cartels to do the bio work (making the BADs) for them and grow the stuff in the Cartel fields, but I find it hard to think the Dragons would kick everyone out of the jungle only to let them back in to grow drugs.
You could use Hydroponics like Playing Games mentioned, the problem with poppies and cocoa leaves is, cocoa leaves are from trees, I don't know if you can grow it in a water tank in your basement, you could grow poppies, seeing that they are a relatively small plant, the problem with that though is one poppie produces little of the product and would require vast farms to produce enough to meet a percentage of demand. The good thing about hydroponics is you can all year round. The side effect though is you would need vast amounts of water, fertilizers adn electricity. Water maynot be a problem, the fertilizers can be, you need very specific stuff not to screw up your very exspensive set up and you may have a hard time getting the quantities needed imported, also the electricity, to run a descent size hydroponics farm would require a HUGE soem of electricity, and with a coutry that hates pollution getting electricity when you want maybe a problem. Those three things, not to mention the smell and heat a hydroponics farm makes may alert the authorities to your clandestine farm rather quickly. If the government cares.
Which brings to another point, electricity. How is it generated and is there any regulations on it. Since there is (I would think) huge anti-pollution laws, there are not many ways left to make electricity. You could solar it. Wind is out since you would need to clear large tracts of land. Any fossil fuel system I would think has long been destroyed. Hydroelectric, well you have dams and tidal generators, I could only imagine the Dragons foaming at the mouth ready to destroy any dam, which leaves tidal generators, does Amazonia have big currents off shore for this type of system? Now Geothermal, if the city is not sitting on a volcano then I don't see much help with them, because the dragons and such will not allow you to develope in the forest. Which I think only leaves Nuclear, any chance a few sections of town can be razed so you can put a few Nuke sites in town?
The labor problem could be sort of solved by shipping in raw parts, parts that have been made but need assembling. There are a lot of products today that or manufactured in one country and assembeled in another. Some comoanies go as far to make the parts in one country, assemble them in other then ship them again to a third for packaging before they hit the selves at your local Stuffer shack. So some of these A or AA might just be a bunch of kids and elderly sittign around putting together the next wave of fads gettignready to storm the selves just in time for Christmas, or theyare just putting them in the boxes. Some companies willbe looking for a leg up over Aztech and the Japanacorps. Aztech lead the world in consumer products, I would think they have a built in slave market to produce their wares. The Japanacorps have the Phillippeens (at least right now) so Ares, Cross, NovaTech and the rest just might have large factories of slaves puttig together trinkets for the civilized world to use and throw away.
I like the idea of art farms like what america does with the Asains for cartoons (as a game idea not the fact we slave drive people so I can watch Futurama or Family Guy).
What if the people of htis area started a migration to the sea? I don't know anyting really about this area, but what if they started making a living off the sea in a much bigger way then before. With the loss of their farm lands they will need another sorce of food, they would become something like the Japan of the west.
Sorry for the long post, ideas just kept coming.
Drugs: Good developement, Frag. As I've said before, present-day Brazil is a drug market, not a producer. It could well continue to be so, with the Cartels making it somewhere else, but selling it in Metropole. However, the potential of BADs is pretty hard to ignore. I still don't like the idea of the governement backing up the drug trade. I just don't see the Dragons stooping to that level.
But Amazonia is a big place with lots of places to hide. I don't see why clandestine farms, staffed by the desperate poor of Metropole and supervised by 1 or 2 Cartel smart guys, couldn't exist here and there, using things like pheremones, ruthenium, etc to keep hidden from Amazonia's paracritter rangers. When they wold be discovered, the workers would be killed and the lab burned, but the Cartels would just write it off as the cost of business in this place and set up another shop. It reminds me of a story I saw bout drug running in Afganhistan. The people there are paid 50$ to run drugs across the border. Alot of them get caught, and they have to spend a few years in jail. It's a terrible deal, but people are desperate enough to have to do it.
Electricity: Hmm, that's somehting I hadn't really considered. Once again, checking the CIA factbook reveal current day Brail is:
fossil fuel: 8.3%
hydro: 82.7%
other: 4.6% (2001)
nuclear: 4.4%
with a total consumption of 335.9 billion kWh (2001).
So clearly some of those Hydro plants are gonna have to stay. There's plenty of room to build new Nuclear power plants (the 500 miles between Rio and Sao Paulo is not dense urban like the hubs are), and I think that's a good solution. The dragons would probably very much like to bring down a few of those dams.
Labour: Yeah, that's perfect, totally agree with that.
But Amazonia is a big place with lots of places to hide. I don't see why clandestine farms, staffed by the desperate poor of Metropole and supervised by 1 or 2 Cartel smart guys, couldn't exist here and there, using things like pheremones, ruthenium, etc to keep hidden from Amazonia's paracritter rangers. When they wold be discovered, the workers would be killed and the lab burned, but the Cartels would just write it off as the cost of business in this place and set up another shop. It reminds me of a story I saw bout drug running in Afganhistan. The people there are paid 50$ to run drugs across the border. Alot of them get caught, and they have to spend a few years in jail. It's a terrible deal, but people are desperate enough to have to do it.
Electricity: Hmm, that's somehting I hadn't really considered. Once again, checking the CIA factbook reveal current day Brail is:
fossil fuel: 8.3%
hydro: 82.7%
other: 4.6% (2001)
nuclear: 4.4%
with a total consumption of 335.9 billion kWh (2001).
So clearly some of those Hydro plants are gonna have to stay. There's plenty of room to build new Nuclear power plants (the 500 miles between Rio and Sao Paulo is not dense urban like the hubs are), and I think that's a good solution. The dragons would probably very much like to bring down a few of those dams.
Labour: Yeah, that's perfect, totally agree with that.
Some where someone was suggesting that mages would not be trusted. If you want to run a clandestine farm they will need some sort of mojo on their side to at least conceal the actives of a lot of people moving about in the jungle. I am no Pablo Escorbar, but it will take a rather large sum of people to produce the drugs. I still see it better if it was a booming talisma business or critterlegging.
If the Cartels had the resources to field groups of soldiers with some magical back up they could possibily run some farms on the fringes of the jungle, say around Metrople or close to Peru, if they go to far into the woods they are done. I cam imagine a Great Dragon using a ritual or something to cast Eyes of the Pack on flocks of Macaws or schools of piranna to watch the jungle. Plus all the spirits, a spirit can search their domain really fast with the search power. These drug cartels will need some major mojo of their own to help protect their investment, yes some loss is a business expenditure, they will be up the fecal creek with out a paddle if they have no magic. Maybe Metrople can become a Merc capital. Plenty of cheap labor willing to fight the peopel who threw them out of their homes and get paid, sounds like a win-win to me. Hell they may Merc as a way to get away from Metrople
I figured the BADs would be produced (at least developed) in Metrople because you have a very good test market built in. I figure the Cartels might use Metrople because it is a safe distance from their home troubles, you know not having all your eggs in one basket. With some minor A's or AA's in Metrople the Cartels could sneak a small bio-corp in there themselves. I can see the brains sitting back developing the best designer drugs then exporting samples to the Cartels for mass production in their home country, but not to harp on the drug thing, clandestine farms in a very hostile area is going to be a very costly adventure.
I see such things as big gamers making a descent living down there, path finders for archeology hunters, Mercs, maybe a booming decker market (Novatech maybe interested int his, trying to keep its assets from the Japanese), talisma hunters, and other very brave souls who want to rump in the Forbidden Jungle. The normal population would probably go to work in warehouses putting together cheap electronics and trinkets, or starting a lot of fisheries.
Maybe if a big decker community pops up a big data haven will follow. The world is dieing to hear what is going on in Amazonia. They would become the underground Ted Turner of Amazonia or a Caos do Capitão (I hope that says Captain Chaos ).
If the Cartels had the resources to field groups of soldiers with some magical back up they could possibily run some farms on the fringes of the jungle, say around Metrople or close to Peru, if they go to far into the woods they are done. I cam imagine a Great Dragon using a ritual or something to cast Eyes of the Pack on flocks of Macaws or schools of piranna to watch the jungle. Plus all the spirits, a spirit can search their domain really fast with the search power. These drug cartels will need some major mojo of their own to help protect their investment, yes some loss is a business expenditure, they will be up the fecal creek with out a paddle if they have no magic. Maybe Metrople can become a Merc capital. Plenty of cheap labor willing to fight the peopel who threw them out of their homes and get paid, sounds like a win-win to me. Hell they may Merc as a way to get away from Metrople
I figured the BADs would be produced (at least developed) in Metrople because you have a very good test market built in. I figure the Cartels might use Metrople because it is a safe distance from their home troubles, you know not having all your eggs in one basket. With some minor A's or AA's in Metrople the Cartels could sneak a small bio-corp in there themselves. I can see the brains sitting back developing the best designer drugs then exporting samples to the Cartels for mass production in their home country, but not to harp on the drug thing, clandestine farms in a very hostile area is going to be a very costly adventure.
I see such things as big gamers making a descent living down there, path finders for archeology hunters, Mercs, maybe a booming decker market (Novatech maybe interested int his, trying to keep its assets from the Japanese), talisma hunters, and other very brave souls who want to rump in the Forbidden Jungle. The normal population would probably go to work in warehouses putting together cheap electronics and trinkets, or starting a lot of fisheries.
Maybe if a big decker community pops up a big data haven will follow. The world is dieing to hear what is going on in Amazonia. They would become the underground Ted Turner of Amazonia or a Caos do Capitão (I hope that says Captain Chaos
).
Close enough: Capitão Caos
Can we even keep this post and maintain our NDA?
Hey Frag, what did you have in mind when you said they might turn to the Oceans? Fishing? Whaling? I'm just curious, that's all. What about Aquatic Soy? We all know that most people in the lower castes of the 6th world live on Bioengineered Soy-protein, so why not a Revolutionary Strain of Aquatic Soybean? Hey, heres a thought! Aquatic Poppies!
I do think that the Amazonian Government would have a serious problem with over fishing though. Their agenda is not only to protect the Rain and Cloud forests, but also to protect the environment, right? That includes the Aquatic environment.
As far as the whole, Magic being untrusted by the Population of Metropole, I tend to think that that is a little untrue. I mean, no Mundane in the 6th world really trusts Magic, so why them even more so? Look at what happened in Hawaii, or in the UCAS with the Great Ghost Dance, No one really trusts Magic. The issue is, whether they will use it or not. Insect Shamans and Hives have a definite place in a sprawl that size, no question. Toxic Avengers (remember the cartoon?) will be working with the Government but what better place than Metropole for Poisoners? Most Nature Shamans would probably be on the side of the Eco-freaks, but why Hermetics? They have no Real tie to the Environment other than the Effects of Backround Count, right? Nothing fights Magic like Magic, so if there is a Revolution forming, there is a place for Mages on the side of the City...
I do think that the Amazonian Government would have a serious problem with over fishing though. Their agenda is not only to protect the Rain and Cloud forests, but also to protect the environment, right? That includes the Aquatic environment.
As far as the whole, Magic being untrusted by the Population of Metropole, I tend to think that that is a little untrue. I mean, no Mundane in the 6th world really trusts Magic, so why them even more so? Look at what happened in Hawaii, or in the UCAS with the Great Ghost Dance, No one really trusts Magic. The issue is, whether they will use it or not. Insect Shamans and Hives have a definite place in a sprawl that size, no question. Toxic Avengers (remember the cartoon?) will be working with the Government but what better place than Metropole for Poisoners? Most Nature Shamans would probably be on the side of the Eco-freaks, but why Hermetics? They have no Real tie to the Environment other than the Effects of Backround Count, right? Nothing fights Magic like Magic, so if there is a Revolution forming, there is a place for Mages on the side of the City...
I didn't really give to much thought to what they might do in the seas, but, yes I think they would start doing more fishing among other things. I am not from tht area infact far from it, I am third generation American from Europe, not that makes any difference. My suggestions are just what I think would happen based on other cultures. Like Japan, they have really no room for farming on the scale of America, in fact no island nation does, or mountainous regions like Scandinavia, so what did they do, they went to the seas. These have developed major sailing and fishing abilities. It might take some time for the Brazilians to catch up (I am assuming that they are not a big sea going breed), but nessecity is the mother of invention.
True the Amazonians may be Eco-Freaks, but it will be harder for them to stop deep sea fishing, most nations have a hard time today stopping other countres from fishing their seas. Japan is a big fishing nation and America and I believe Canada have had run ins with Japanese floating factories in our waters, as I am sure Russia has had problems with American fishers in their waters. The fact is running to the deep Atlantic for big fish like Tuna, is going to be one mean task for the Amazonian government to stop, if they can do anything at all. It seems right now the government is just making sure their lands and I would assume their seas stay clean and nice. If not they would have already started a full scale war with Aztlan with all the stuff that is happening in the Yucatan right now. Now that is not to say the Amazonian government will not hire Runners to sabotage these newly acquired fish factories to stop the "rapping" of the sea.
Also the Carrabian is damn close, I could only imagine thousands of people running to the local boat shops stealling a few boats and diving into the piracy game. With a huge city of poor people that will be lookign for anything to eat or sell to to get food, piracy doesn't seem that far from a logical step, look at the Gold & Ivory Coast in the pirates book, the Phillipeens in the same book, the Phillipeens were invded for all intents and purposes so they ran to the sea, much like I think the Metrople would do. Humans are instinctally mirgratory, they only stay in one place as long as food is around, and now we just have to much junk to load in the car and move every summer.
Take away food and creature comforts, then you get mass exodus. They may stick around to get back what is "theirs" namely their land and lives, but I can see floatillas of families livign a "Water World" type of life. Maybe not that extreme, but not that hard to imagine.
If you suppose the AAA's set up soem AA's and A's to have the poor of Metrople make cheaps trinkets for the rest of the world, wouldn't it be feasible soem of thoes people would see an oppurtunity to steal said trinkets to sell themselves. Then a specialized decker community would sprout up looking to get the patest shipping manifests for their Ocean going gang to raid. You could also then have maybe a rising of riggers looking to become Captian Hook of Brazil. I would still thing cyber would be low for a while, unless of course the AA's A's are doig major Bio-research on the rest of the population, then cyber may be pretty easy to find.
Lets not forget the rest of the world (at least a lot of the guys I know) think Brazillian women are drop dead sexy. That is a very fine commodity your now growing piracy groups will look into. I am not just talking prostitution for the locals or visitors, I am talking invasion of the body snatchers. Picture this, Hot chick goes to bar to drowned her sorrow for living in a dump, she meets a nice guy, he buys her a drink, when she is not looking BAM he spikes her synthohol, she wakes up a few hours later in a cargo hold with several other frieghtened women trying to figure out where they are, the first mate looks in, throws some food to them and asks "Ever been to Seattle?"
Also I believe soem companies still have bounties on certain creatures. I think one of the nations in the Carrib League has a bounty on Megalodons. What do you have to lose chasing after a bounty when you really have nothing to look forward to back in Metrolpe?
I think the next major thing is who runs the city? I really doubt the Dragons are hanging out in the city, I might suggest they want nothing to do with it. I would go as far as to say the Dragons allow a governor to run it, with a appointed cabinet (appoited by the Dragons of course) but a certain level of autonamity. I don't remeber if this has been touched. Who is runnning the city? Who runs the Police, the Fire Department, Medical Services adn all the other junk. DOes KE run the Police, Franklin Fire Protection runthe Fire Department, is DocWagon and CrashCart fighting over contracts? There will be a huge amount o peopel living in this Mega-City, so there could be major cash to be made. That would entail a pretty good size work force gettign soem jobs. There would have to be some one runnign the power plants. Sure AA's and A's will own the facilities, btu they are not goign to import all the talent, they will be using locals.
Is there an airport still functional in Metrople? If not they will have some jobs created for a while to build one and them to run it, all inside the city limits of course. Still a few more jobs created. The rail and road system alone would employ thousands.
That is all I can think of now, I think I rambled on to much already.
EDIT: I forgot I agree with you pretty much on the magic thing. I think people will always have mis-trust towards magic users, if not the idea of them being on the wrong side, but they might make you do something you would not want to do or they could kill you with a look. The thing is though I believe a good portion of sixth worlders also know magic is a gift to rare to pass up. The pirates will use them, the Metrople government will use them, and Cartels will use them. They may always be hyper-vigilant that they maybe playing for the other team, but I think they will take it as a cost of doing business. I think everyone will be on both sides, hermatic doesn't mean they hate the environment and being shamanic doesn't mean loves nature. I am not talking toxic shamans either, rat, dog, cat, raccon, and a few other totems are or can be urban, so they have no real use for a country of jungle, they like the city.
True the Amazonians may be Eco-Freaks, but it will be harder for them to stop deep sea fishing, most nations have a hard time today stopping other countres from fishing their seas. Japan is a big fishing nation and America and I believe Canada have had run ins with Japanese floating factories in our waters, as I am sure Russia has had problems with American fishers in their waters. The fact is running to the deep Atlantic for big fish like Tuna, is going to be one mean task for the Amazonian government to stop, if they can do anything at all. It seems right now the government is just making sure their lands and I would assume their seas stay clean and nice. If not they would have already started a full scale war with Aztlan with all the stuff that is happening in the Yucatan right now. Now that is not to say the Amazonian government will not hire Runners to sabotage these newly acquired fish factories to stop the "rapping" of the sea.
Also the Carrabian is damn close, I could only imagine thousands of people running to the local boat shops stealling a few boats and diving into the piracy game. With a huge city of poor people that will be lookign for anything to eat or sell to to get food, piracy doesn't seem that far from a logical step, look at the Gold & Ivory Coast in the pirates book, the Phillipeens in the same book, the Phillipeens were invded for all intents and purposes so they ran to the sea, much like I think the Metrople would do. Humans are instinctally mirgratory, they only stay in one place as long as food is around, and now we just have to much junk to load in the car and move every summer.
Take away food and creature comforts, then you get mass exodus. They may stick around to get back what is "theirs" namely their land and lives, but I can see floatillas of families livign a "Water World" type of life. Maybe not that extreme, but not that hard to imagine.If you suppose the AAA's set up soem AA's and A's to have the poor of Metrople make cheaps trinkets for the rest of the world, wouldn't it be feasible soem of thoes people would see an oppurtunity to steal said trinkets to sell themselves. Then a specialized decker community would sprout up looking to get the patest shipping manifests for their Ocean going gang to raid. You could also then have maybe a rising of riggers looking to become Captian Hook of Brazil. I would still thing cyber would be low for a while, unless of course the AA's A's are doig major Bio-research on the rest of the population, then cyber may be pretty easy to find.
Lets not forget the rest of the world (at least a lot of the guys I know) think Brazillian women are drop dead sexy. That is a very fine commodity your now growing piracy groups will look into. I am not just talking prostitution for the locals or visitors, I am talking invasion of the body snatchers. Picture this, Hot chick goes to bar to drowned her sorrow for living in a dump, she meets a nice guy, he buys her a drink, when she is not looking BAM he spikes her synthohol, she wakes up a few hours later in a cargo hold with several other frieghtened women trying to figure out where they are, the first mate looks in, throws some food to them and asks "Ever been to Seattle?"
Also I believe soem companies still have bounties on certain creatures. I think one of the nations in the Carrib League has a bounty on Megalodons. What do you have to lose chasing after a bounty when you really have nothing to look forward to back in Metrolpe?
I think the next major thing is who runs the city? I really doubt the Dragons are hanging out in the city, I might suggest they want nothing to do with it. I would go as far as to say the Dragons allow a governor to run it, with a appointed cabinet (appoited by the Dragons of course) but a certain level of autonamity. I don't remeber if this has been touched. Who is runnning the city? Who runs the Police, the Fire Department, Medical Services adn all the other junk. DOes KE run the Police, Franklin Fire Protection runthe Fire Department, is DocWagon and CrashCart fighting over contracts? There will be a huge amount o peopel living in this Mega-City, so there could be major cash to be made. That would entail a pretty good size work force gettign soem jobs. There would have to be some one runnign the power plants. Sure AA's and A's will own the facilities, btu they are not goign to import all the talent, they will be using locals.
Is there an airport still functional in Metrople? If not they will have some jobs created for a while to build one and them to run it, all inside the city limits of course. Still a few more jobs created. The rail and road system alone would employ thousands.
That is all I can think of now, I think I rambled on to much already.
EDIT: I forgot I agree with you pretty much on the magic thing. I think people will always have mis-trust towards magic users, if not the idea of them being on the wrong side, but they might make you do something you would not want to do or they could kill you with a look. The thing is though I believe a good portion of sixth worlders also know magic is a gift to rare to pass up. The pirates will use them, the Metrople government will use them, and Cartels will use them. They may always be hyper-vigilant that they maybe playing for the other team, but I think they will take it as a cost of doing business. I think everyone will be on both sides, hermatic doesn't mean they hate the environment and being shamanic doesn't mean loves nature. I am not talking toxic shamans either, rat, dog, cat, raccon, and a few other totems are or can be urban, so they have no real use for a country of jungle, they like the city.
On most of those questions, the whole point of the thread is that for the most part we don't know practically anything about the place.
I am just trying to help a guy out that wants to flesh out the city until Synner, I think it is he that wrote that part about Metrople, gets a chance to really flesh it out. Everything I said maybe completely off the wall and totally disregarded, but I am extremely bored and thought I'd lend a hand at it.
I forgot to ask, moosegod, what does that post mean? I am totally lost.
EDIT: A sleepy mind always forgets, or always sees a twist on things you hadn't thought of before.
About the Aquatic-Soy, why not a bio-engineered form of kelp? It is used already in toothpaste and some food products (I think it tastes like, well I'll let you figure it out, but it is not good). Imagine kelp farms for acres under water, being harvested by under water drones and farmers in submersibles checking the crop. Kelp/seaweed grows at a phenominal rate. Enginnered for better protien and vitamins and other healthy stuff, and maybe a quicker growing gene. They could be hualing tons of the stuff in daily. They could be the next bread basket to the world. The only thing is making sure the Dragons don't destroy it. Imagine the runs down there, get rid of the boring piracy, it is time to go destroy Cletuses kelp fields.
I forgot to ask, moosegod, what does that post mean? I am totally lost.
EDIT: A sleepy mind always forgets, or always sees a twist on things you hadn't thought of before.
About the Aquatic-Soy, why not a bio-engineered form of kelp? It is used already in toothpaste and some food products (I think it tastes like, well I'll let you figure it out, but it is not good). Imagine kelp farms for acres under water, being harvested by under water drones and farmers in submersibles checking the crop. Kelp/seaweed grows at a phenominal rate. Enginnered for better protien and vitamins and other healthy stuff, and maybe a quicker growing gene. They could be hualing tons of the stuff in daily. They could be the next bread basket to the world. The only thing is making sure the Dragons don't destroy it. Imagine the runs down there, get rid of the boring piracy, it is time to go destroy Cletuses kelp fields.
| QUOTE (Frag-o Delux @ Feb 8 2004, 02:44 PM) |
| I forgot to ask, moosegod, what does that post mean? I am totally lost. |
He's concerned about violating the NDA signed by the Shadows of South America sourcebook (Latin American Sourcebook) team.
OK now it makes sense. So since I am not part of this team I can rant on about Metrople all I want?
Hell if they want to use any of the stuff I said fine by me, I just want to be a shadow talker. Or even a story of another shadow talker,
"Yeah I knew this pirate Frag-O he was smart and hansome, too bad a Megalodon bit through his Alvin and bit him in half! He was supposed to be running hookers to America, but got lost in a kelp farm."
But I digress, if they feel it is worth using, use it, I don't care.
Hell if they want to use any of the stuff I said fine by me, I just want to be a shadow talker.
Or even a story of another shadow talker, "Yeah I knew this pirate Frag-O he was smart and hansome, too bad a Megalodon bit through his Alvin and bit him in half! He was supposed to be running hookers to America, but got lost in a kelp farm."
But I digress, if they feel it is worth using, use it, I don't care.
| QUOTE (Frag-o Delux) |
| So since I am not part of this team I can rant on about Metrople all I want? |
You got it!
I figure that whilst they might keep them out of the main interior, they might let a few highly regulated and supervised bio-research teams have a look round the fringes of the place. Target: Wastelands gives the impression that they'll put up with corp activity as long as it's eco-friendly - from the bit about the planned Drake passage tidal power station.
Besides, they need at least the basis of an conomy - boxes of AK-97's and C-12 for donating to the eco-terrorists/Yucatan rebels don't just grow on trees. Although, this is Amazonia you know, and some of the weird stuff you hear...
Besides, they need at least the basis of an conomy - boxes of AK-97's and C-12 for donating to the eco-terrorists/Yucatan rebels don't just grow on trees. Although, this is Amazonia you know, and some of the weird stuff you hear...
Moosegod's comment is misleading. No NDA's have been signed and no official FanPro Latin American sourcebook has been announced for the immediate future (although Rob has mentioned the possibility at a Convention and it fits with the plan to eventually cover the Sixth World with Shadows of books). Even if it does come up for development there is no guarantee that part or all of the current SoSA sb team will be among the writers, it all hinges on their proposals so...
... much like with the original EuroSB project, there is a point when you have to limit access to your ideas, drafts and materials in the event that your project is picked up for development, because it is (understandably) FanPro's (like most game companies') policy not to publish stuff that has previously been distributed for free (ie. posted to the open web). Posting ideas you want to see published in the future is shooting yourself in the foot, while stuff that has already been published can obviously be brought up and discussed and even expanded. Not that you can't test the waters (so to speak), you just have to be very careful. If people were to reread some of the DSF threads I posted before writing Lofwyr, with that hindsight, they'd probably notice quite a few "feelers".
Note - I did indeed write the brief Metropole section for SSG. Steve Kenson wrote the larger piece under Hualpa's section in DotSW. They're purposefully meant to be complementary (and partially contradictory). As is often the case the truth is probably somewhere in between the two.
... much like with the original EuroSB project, there is a point when you have to limit access to your ideas, drafts and materials in the event that your project is picked up for development, because it is (understandably) FanPro's (like most game companies') policy not to publish stuff that has previously been distributed for free (ie. posted to the open web). Posting ideas you want to see published in the future is shooting yourself in the foot, while stuff that has already been published can obviously be brought up and discussed and even expanded. Not that you can't test the waters (so to speak), you just have to be very careful. If people were to reread some of the DSF threads I posted before writing Lofwyr, with that hindsight, they'd probably notice quite a few "feelers".
Note - I did indeed write the brief Metropole section for SSG. Steve Kenson wrote the larger piece under Hualpa's section in DotSW. They're purposefully meant to be complementary (and partially contradictory). As is often the case the truth is probably somewhere in between the two.
My innitial thought was that the city would not have many services, nor would the city governement be very useful. There would be a small police force, under-equiped and pretty useless. Real security would come from private sec forces like KE or LS or whatever for the more corporate and middle to upper income, while the poorer would have to deal with the gangs for justice. There would be "representants" of the Amazonian governement looking constantly looking over the shoulder of city offcials, and an Awakened SWAT/para-military division would be on stand-by for dealing with crimes that affect nationnal security, such as the rebels mentionned before.
Fire dep, sanitation and all the rest could still be run by the City, but they wouldn't be very impressive. Just enough to do the job.
Another aspect I was thinking about: the 500 miles between Rio and Sao Paulo isn't super-urbanised at first. When the governement moves the 100 million population to this little strip, you can bet there is gonna be a scramble to build houses. Rio and Sao Paulo are already pretty full, so a good chunk of the population would probably have moved into "temporary" shanty towns while better habitations where built. But as time went, the poorer found that their "temporary" shanty homes were starting to look pretty permanent. The housing crisis would probably be an on-going issue in the city, since the governement is responsile for building these. The rich would complain over wine about the terrible job the governement is doing, if only they'd privatise the construction so it would go faster, bla bla bla, while for the poor their dream would be that they *finally* get told there is a new home with their name on it, a ticket out of the favellas.
Fire dep, sanitation and all the rest could still be run by the City, but they wouldn't be very impressive. Just enough to do the job.
Another aspect I was thinking about: the 500 miles between Rio and Sao Paulo isn't super-urbanised at first. When the governement moves the 100 million population to this little strip, you can bet there is gonna be a scramble to build houses. Rio and Sao Paulo are already pretty full, so a good chunk of the population would probably have moved into "temporary" shanty towns while better habitations where built. But as time went, the poorer found that their "temporary" shanty homes were starting to look pretty permanent. The housing crisis would probably be an on-going issue in the city, since the governement is responsile for building these. The rich would complain over wine about the terrible job the governement is doing, if only they'd privatise the construction so it would go faster, bla bla bla, while for the poor their dream would be that they *finally* get told there is a new home with their name on it, a ticket out of the favellas.
Ignore the idiot behind the curtain.
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