Edge: Born Meta, I didnt Goblinize! Options

[phelious fogg]

I was wondering about an edge that would help Orcs and Trolls overcome thier mental stat penalties, the idea being that Goblinization causes these horrible changes resulting in mental and social troubles. (I doubt an orc in the underground gets treated terribly by the rest of the underground.) Of course the idea here is that Goblinized people are still penalized, but that people born that way are not. Racism will still affect them, but they are better equiped against it. As mana grows this will be more common, possibly resulting in a higher cost for each of the races. Anyways here goes

Edge: Born Meta Human
For an Orc this is a five point edge, for Trolls it is a 10 point edge. Being born as a Meta removes the mental penalties for your race, +5 body, -1 Quickness, +4 strength, -0 charisma, -0 int ... etc.

What do you all think about this?

[Jason Farlander]

Umm... no one goblinizes anymore. Or if it does happen, its very rare. The stat modifications arent the result of goblinization trauma... its just that some metatypes arent as, shall we say, quick on the draw as others. Nowadays, orks are born orks and trolls are born trolls.

[mfb]

goblinization still happens fairly frequently, but not nearly as often as normal meta births (orks especially are noted for bearing multiple kids at a time). i'd switch it from Born Meta to Goblinized, to make more sense.

[Spookymonster]

What makes a 'natural' ork smarter than the goblinized ork sitting next to him in the Barrens? Both had teachers that put them down as having 'learning disabilities' just to get them on the short bus and out of their classroom. Both had to deal with the same crappy attitudes from social workers and the media. Both lived in sub-standard housing full of toxins proven to retard mental development, etc.

The effects of racism go far beyond mere damage to self-esteem.

[phelious fogg]

Okay, so most people are born meta's which I knew, but I couldnt think of a better name for the edge, The point being that, I dont think they are really that much slower (maybe with perception, sure, then again I dont like to link smarts with Int anyways) than anyone else. The big problem with me is charisma, which seems more force of personality than looks (most of the really charismatic people i know are not the most attractive people i know) and the idea that being an orc or a toll automatically makes you bland socialy I dont really like. They already face racisism from nearly everyone in the world, taking such a permenant hit to thier mental stats seems cruel. This just allows an out for them.

Anyways, it does depend on gm who decideds goblinization. A runner in 2060 might be 30 years old in which case there is a fair chance he did goblinize.

[Jason Farlander]

[Jason Farlander]

A more or less reasonable thing to do if its really bothering you would be to ignore charisma penalties for those races that possess them when dealing with members of your same race. To balance this out, races that possess charisma bonuses would ignore those when dealing with members of their own race.

[mfb]

i'll have to look it up, but i'm 99% sure it still happens.

[phelious fogg]

[Wu Jen]

Can't remember the book but it was the one with the troll bodyguard that had goblinized he didn't have the metal deficeits that all trolls have but he still got the bonuses to str, bod etc. So you could have a edge called goblinized and not have the racial penalties but you would have the bonuses.

[simonw2000]

I'll start looking.

[Wu Jen]

It was one of the first shadowrun books (paperback) that came out...i'll look for you too.


Edit: Found it Changeling (Shadowrun, No 5) by Chris Kubasik

He goblinizes into a troll but doesnt lose his mental abilities.

[phelious fogg]

Well supposedly the trauma of golblinization leaves people disoriented etc, because they are not used to the changes in thier bodies, thus the lower mental attributes. You might also claim racism causes this (which is possible, they might be less charasmatic because they value themselves less, they might be less intelligent because they have had less training in that department) But I cannot see how being discriminated against affects how well your perception works (unlike being nearsighted or such) I can still understand the physical penalties (id even argue that elves need -1 bod) but mental ones need a workaround, hopefully one that seems to be reasonable.

(One can always explain that fomori's magical background causes them to be more charismatic, as its needed for summoning spirits, but in general, I dont think that makes them look better as well)

[Siege]

Unfortunately, that's the drawback of rolling several issues into one stat.

A reasonable scenario that depletes one wouldn't reasonably impact the others: mental trauma, perception, for example.

It's tough to juggle the proper number of attributes between playability and mechanical realism.

SR has deigned to use these attributes that cover these topics. Operating within the suggested parameters, Trolls suffer penalties to their Intelligence. I recall the line suggesting such penalties were due to the shock of goblinizing -- why naturally born trolls continue to suffer the penalty doesn't make sense.

Unless the hypothesis regarding the mental ability being reduced because of the act of goblinization was incorrect and goblinoids simply have limited mental abilities at birth.

-Siege

[moosegod]

Trolls and orcs are just dumber.

That's how I've always played it, although I do have to agree with Siege's statement about the issues of rolling several functions into one. Ah, SPECIAL, how I miss you...

[Siege]

Heh, I don't know if I'm any substantially happier with the SPECIAL attribute system.

For those of you who don't know:

Strength
Perception
Endurance
Charisma
Intelligence
Agility
Luck

-Siege

[Shockwave_IIc]

Well for trolls you could explain it as the dermal depposts crushing parts of the brain, Don't know how for orks though.

Besides there is always exceptional and bonus attribute edges.

[Jason Farlander]

Luck? Is Karma pool not good enough?

I once toyed with the idea of splitting each attribute into two subattributes.. but in the end I didnt feel that it would improve the game sufficiently to be worth the complexification.

[Siege]

As this board has demonstrated repeatedly, there is always a way to justify, rationalize or explain a particular mechanic, event or scenario.

I just take it at face value that goblinoids suffer these penalties.

Although, I have this bizarre urge to play a goblin demolitions specialist for some reason...:grinbig:

-Siege

[BitBasher]

How about their brain just isn't as physically efficient. period.

[REM]

Why cant you have preety Trolls? I mean honest. Why cant the have like a charisma of 6 and that be because they look GOOD?

[Large Mike]

It's entirely possible, just less likely. That's what the exceptional attribute edge is for.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Remember that the 6+- racial mods is only the limit for a new character without an exceptional attribute. 6 at build = 9 maximum without cyber or magic.

[Fortune]

I fail to see the need for this. His social skills are not limited in any way by his Charisma except in terms of how much Karma they cost to raise. At worst, and orc or troll has to work a little harder to be as effective in social situations. This seems reasonable to me.

Besides, the changes suggested would lead to a large game imbalance. Trolls with none of the negatives and all of the bonuses have no place in my games!

As for the character in Changeling, he did indeed lose some of his mental facilities. He had to work quite hard to retain what he could, and even improve upon his former knowledge.

[Wu Jen]