There are no street signs on Astral..., getting from point A to B on astrally Options

[WalksWithWiFi]

So, recently after the pc's asked an npc to scout out a building astrally, a question
popped into my mind.
How does a magician/spirit find their way on the astral?
example situation, Sammie asks mage to go scout out a building in Redmond, Mage is currently
in Tacoma. The Sammie gives the mage the physical address.
Can the magician find this place without physically going to the building, then scouting from just
outside.
Of course the npc in question has an issue with astrally projecting while not in a ward of some sort.

If there is some fluff i missed on this, please throw it my way.

[Semerkhet]

I have no fluff to reference, but I can tell you how I've handled it at my table.

For the mage in Tacoma, target building in Redmond situation. I ruled that the magician would have a very hard time finding a building based on a street address and verbal "turn here, turn there" instructions. Not impossible, but hard. Even harder if the magician is not familiar with the target area, less hard if they are familiar.

The way my players have dealt with this is by pinpointing the location via overhead satellite imagery. Letting the magician do the 2072 equivalent of fooling around with Google Earth/Maps for ten or fifteen minutes to become familiar with the terrain and buildings surrounding the target building. This doesn't make it an auto-success, but I've substantially reduced the penalty on the Intuition+Navigation Test to find the desired building astrally.

[Draco18s]

This is why they made i]maps.[/i]

Once you have an address you get some Google Map directions and a map with a nice blue line on it.

Start counting intersections (google streetview helps too: "here's what the turn looks like from street level").

[nezumi]

Precisely. You can navigate based on landmarks. If you conjured up a spirit prior, you can get the spirit to help guide you (since they have less trouble with astral navigation).

What sort of test do people normally use for 'finding' oneself (or your intended location)?

[DireRadiant]

You could always just go with the astral being sees all knows all finds all such that no mundane thing can possibly get away with being hidden from the astral being approach.

[Ascalaphus]

Well, some astral features resemble physical features. IR satellite imagery is probably very useful; it should somewhat mimic the spread of life across the surface, which is also well-seen on the astral plane.

Nearby buildings with astral security also function as landmarks; if you're trying to find Seattle, you probably home in on the Aztechnology pyramid until you close in on the city.

[Draco18s]

Well, some astral features resemble physical features.

You can still see street signs and stop lights on the astral. You just can't read them.

[WalksWithWiFi]

You could always just go with the astral being sees all knows all finds all such that no mundane thing can possibly get away with being hidden from the astral being approach.

lol


thanks for all the input so far

[Doc Byte]

If there is some fluff i missed on this, please throw it my way.

I can't add any fluff but on the crunch side there's the 'navigation' skill. And yes, memorising a map / waypoints does help.

[nezumi]

Counting intersections is fine if you're only going a mile or two. But if you're going from Baltimore to DC, it gets a lot more complex. You would have to:
1) orient yourself (n/s/e/w)
2) Count intersections from a known landmark (which means identifying and finding the landmark, then counting).

And that doesn't even get into things like room numbers. If I say the mark's room is room 522 in the Nelson, on 8th st., it quickly becomes a crapshoot.

(Can elementals read?)

[Muspellsheimr]

Movement for an astrally projecting magician is much quicker than
physical movement. In astral space, free of the concerns of the body,
the magician moves at the speed of thought. She simply imagines herself
at a place and her astral body travels there. Any nearby destination
is reached in seconds. Mere minutes are required to cross great distances,
and in hours the magician can circle the globe.

Of course, the magician would have to know the place well enough to "imagine herself there". As others have said - Google Maps.

[WalksWithWiFi]

as far as i thought, elementals/spirits have the same issue any being in astral would have-
not being able to read print, but getting impressions from said print(possibly)with assensing.
Thats how i have been running it at least.
the Navigation skill or defaulting might be a good way to just make a quick call on it.

[DireRadiant]

Basically you need to come up with some way to map a correspondence between the astral and mundane locations. This is why mages often resort to eyeballing the target while physical first.

Some approaches that may work without physically knowing the place.
If another assensor has seen the physical location, they can relate the astral description to the mage.
There is the astral photograph technology, one of those photos might be enough to help find a location.
Ritual links may work. e.g. a part of an object linked to the mundane location may work.
Search for some other object that is know to be there, but would be easier to track. e.g. send a parcel with a blood sample there.

[WalksWithWiFi]

Basically you need to come up with some way to map a correspondence between the astral and mundane locations. This is why mages often resort to eyeballing the target while physical first.

Some approaches that may work without physically knowing the place.
If another assensor has seen the physical location, they can relate the astral description to the mage.
There is the astral photograph technology, one of those photos might be enough to help find a location.
Ritual links may work. e.g. a part of an object linked to the mundane location may work.
Search for some other object that is know to be there, but would be easier to track. e.g. send a parcel with a blood sample there.

i like a lot of this-

[nezumi]

as far as i thought, elementals/spirits have the same issue any being in astral would have-
not being able to read print, but getting impressions from said print(possibly)with assensing.

Except elementals can materialize (and projecting mages cannot).

[DireRadiant]

Except elementals can materialize (and projecting mages cannot).

And we all know materialized spirits grow eyeballs.

[WalksWithWiFi]

Except elementals can materialize (and projecting mages cannot).

but they are still dual natured, which means that they still see via astral, right?

[Caadium]

Basically you need to come up with some way to map a correspondence between the astral and mundane locations. This is why mages often resort to eyeballing the target while physical first.

Some approaches that may work without physically knowing the place.
If another assensor has seen the physical location, they can relate the astral description to the mage.
There is the astral photograph technology, one of those photos might be enough to help find a location.
Ritual links may work. e.g. a part of an object linked to the mundane location may work.
Search for some other object that is know to be there, but would be easier to track. e.g. send a parcel with a blood sample there.

This is slightly off topic, but not completely so please bear with me.

Taking into account Satellites and the astral photography technology, would it be possible for a company to create an Astral Google Earth? Obviously, given the costs involved in creating such a thing I'd guess it would be a fee based subscription service. To tie this into the thread, obviously something like this would be a viable solution to the OP.

So, does this seem like a viable product? Or have I just hit on the fun roots for a new couple of runs as competing magic based corps struggle to be the first?

[Falconer]

Actually, IF the street sam is there... use the search power and have a watcher locate him and lead you to him.
Also, you need to have assensed the street sam to communicate his unique aura to the spirit.

Otherwise I agree... astral is a little wierd when it comes to orienteering.


As far as spirits go... free spirits can't read AR displays and the like... and generally I'm of the view that spirits can't see normally only astral perception (even when materialized), unless they specifically get the low-light vision power. (look, a few of the spirits have it as an optional power). And it's a very cheap option for free spirits.

The current crop of authors/editors have chanted that tack maybe though.

[Draco18s]

have a watcher locate him and lead you to him.

Lawl. Watcher spirits have 2 dice to do that with. XD

[Falconer]

I thought they put an optional rule in place for watchers to get more dice for use in the search power only.

Oh well, my local GM does that. Otherwise, watchers are completely useless... also any damage whatsoever disrupts them to prevent their use as attack dog packs as another house rule.

Generally if a watcher won't cut it... just summon a normal spirit on the fly for the task.

[Semerkhet]

Precisely. You can navigate based on landmarks. If you conjured up a spirit prior, you can get the spirit to help guide you (since they have less trouble with astral navigation).

What sort of test do people normally use for 'finding' oneself (or your intended location)?

Most mages will have a decent Intuition, so even a single level in Navigation should give a workable dice pool. I'd even allow a Navigation(Astral) specialization. The mage in my group has the Astral Geography Knowledge Skill. I've been giving him a +1 to his DP to take that knowledge into account. Not precisely RAW, but I'm a big fan of FoRKs from Burning Wheel.

[Neowulf]

I can't remember, any reason someone couldn't stick a nutrient feed into a billboard and grow a layer of some hardy moss over the letters so the (weak) aura of said plants form letters in the astral? Even if the resolution is bad due to auras glowing instead of having defined borders like typeface.
I suspect atleast a couple businesses in any given area would do it as an advertising gimmick. "This here's Larry's Gourmet Stuffers, come visit with your body sometime!" Also some well meaning magic groups might do it to help astral travelers by cultivating messages on walls, and people who want some astral art to brag about might do it, even if they can't see it themselves.


Having a sign that points to certain businesses would help as landmarks, and I would suspect geek mages would map out all the astral art pieces they discover.

[TheOOB]

I was always under the impression that if the signs and stuff where big enough, you could read them. Anyways, if you get the general location(easy if you do a zoom-out zoom-in thing like an electronic map, a spirit with search can finish the job.

[Muspellsheimr]

As I quoted from the rules, a projecting magician can travel to anywhere they can "imagine" themselves being.

In other words, if they can picture themselves at a location (having viewed *an image of the location is easily sufficient), they can travel there in astral space - directions are not needed. The wording is vague enough that it can easily be justified that knowing where the location is (aka address) is sufficient, without even having viewed the location (digital or otherwise).


Navigation tests should be called for only when the magician is traveling somewhere they do not know the location of (only direction, for example) and have not seen previously (again, an image is sufficient).