IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Vampires Radiation and Extreme Temperatures, Is Radiation or Extreme Temperature Lethal to Vampires
Bushw4cker
post Feb 5 2010, 06:37 AM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 308
Joined: 2-November 09
Member No.: 17,830



SR4 Says Vampires are immune to age, pathogens and toxins, are they also immune to radiation and/or extreme temperatures? If they are, what kind of modifiers would they suffer? and what other HMHVV infected would also have the same immunity? Just HMHVV1? Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Feb 5 2010, 06:48 AM
Post #2


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



They are not immune to radiation or extreme temperature/environments.

They do, however, typically Regenerate any damage caused by such conditions at least as fast as it occurs, meaning Immunity would be largely redundant anyways. Because of how Regeneration works, it should also repair any non-damage side effects caused by prolonged radiation exposure, but this is not supported in the mechanics, only fluff.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kalvan
post Feb 5 2010, 12:06 PM
Post #3


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 174
Joined: 21-May 06
Member No.: 8,583



Rules or no, they shouldn't be able to regenerate from UV or deeper radiation. That's what makes sunlight harmful to people with allergies to sunburn anyway. Internal propblems X-Ray machines would normally be used to diagnose should instead call for medical deep radar or ultrasound. If you are going to explain away vampirism as a pathogenically commnicable disease, it shouldn't be a heads I win, tails you lose sort of proposition.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Summerstorm
post Feb 5 2010, 12:17 PM
Post #4


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,000
Joined: 30-May 09
From: Germany
Member No.: 17,225



But vampires have no allergy to UV or such. It is sunlight... But yeah i know this is the magical vampire/ biological vampire - discussion then. I prefer my vampires magical, so UV-lights and such won't have the effect (Maybe a spell called SUNLIGHT may), since it is not the sun. It is the power of life that burns the vampire (or the eye of god, or whatever weird explanation the vampires have).

Back to the topic: radiation should be no problem. Extreme temperatures on the other hand... i could guess that excecive cold could freeze the vampire down, so he can't move and get excessive damage to all wet tissue (brains and such) and as such MAY be destroyed... but that would take a LOT of cold, i think.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Feb 5 2010, 01:31 PM
Post #5


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



Vampiric vulnerability to sunlight is traditionally been a mystical weakness, not a biological allergen. The weakness to ultraviolet wavelengths popularized by movies such as Blade has no real basis in vampire myths.

Granted - Shadowrun vampires do deviate from the vampires of classical myth but the vampiric virus remains an Awakened virus - aka magical in nature, as are the properties granted by it. Also note that the allergy is to sunlight, not ultraviolet light.

In simple terms, no. There is no difference by damage caused by ultraviolet radiation, nuclear radiation, or any other radiation. None of those trigger the vampire's allergy to sunlight. Even if the allergy was indeed to ultraviolet frequencies, it would still only prevent Regeneration while the vampire remains exposed - as soon as the exposure is removed, damage caused Regenerates normally.

QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Feb 5 2010, 05:17 AM) *
Back to the topic: radiation should be no problem. Extreme temperatures on the other hand... i could guess that excecive cold could freeze the vampire down, so he can't move and get excessive damage to all wet tissue (brains and such) and as such MAY be destroyed... but that would take a LOT of cold, i think.

Not really. Damage caused by extreme cold temperatures is due to cell death (frostbite). Unless the vampire looses Regeneration due to a mana ebb or similar, even the weakest (1 Body, 1 Magic) would heal damage faster than it is caused in all but the most extreme environments (approaching absolute zero) - at least, by the rules, as I have no personal experience as to exactly how fast vampires regenerate, or the rate damage is caused by such temperatures.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Starmage21
post Feb 5 2010, 02:53 PM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 745
Joined: 13-April 07
From: Houston, Texas
Member No.: 11,448



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 5 2010, 08:31 AM) *
Vampiric vulnerability to sunlight is traditionally been a mystical weakness, not a biological allergen. The weakness to ultraviolet wavelengths popularized by movies such as Blade has no real basis in vampire myths.

Granted - Shadowrun vampires do deviate from the vampires of classical myth but the vampiric virus remains an Awakened virus - aka magical in nature, as are the properties granted by it. Also note that the allergy is to sunlight, not ultraviolet light.

In simple terms, no. There is no difference by damage caused by ultraviolet radiation, nuclear radiation, or any other radiation. None of those trigger the vampire's allergy to sunlight. Even if the allergy was indeed to ultraviolet frequencies, it would still only prevent Regeneration while the vampire remains exposed - as soon as the exposure is removed, damage caused Regenerates normally.


Not really. Damage caused by extreme cold temperatures is due to cell death (frostbite). Unless the vampire looses Regeneration due to a mana ebb or similar, even the weakest (1 Body, 1 Magic) would heal damage faster than it is caused in all but the most extreme environments (approaching absolute zero) - at least, by the rules, as I have no personal experience as to exactly how fast vampires regenerate, or the rate damage is caused by such temperatures.



even so, a vampire shadowrunner (PC) isnt going to want to tax his regenerating abilities unless theyre fairly confident that theyre not going to get shot at in those extreme areas anyway. So really it boils down to a game balance comparison: Is it unbalanced to let an infected/regenerating character not have to worry about environmentally sealing their armor/protective clothing versus those elements? Given the relative cheap cost and availability, the answer is: no, not really.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BRodda
post Feb 5 2010, 02:58 PM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 663
Joined: 30-June 06
From: Memphis, TN
Member No.: 8,811



QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Feb 5 2010, 01:37 AM) *
SR4 Says Vampires are immune to age, pathogens and toxins, are they also immune to radiation and/or extreme temperatures? If they are, what kind of modifiers would they suffer? and what other HMHVV infected would also have the same immunity? Just HMHVV1? Thanks


In extreme temperatures they still burn or freeze. Vampires can still get heatstroke, hypothermia or frostbite. They might last a bit longer or regrow their nose, but you leave them in the cold long enough they will still freeze solid.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eimi
post Feb 6 2010, 12:37 AM
Post #8


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 113
Joined: 13-April 09
Member No.: 17,073



Never forget that vampires aren't immune to pain. Even if they'll regenerate damage, it still isn't going to be a pleasant experience. I know that a lot of RPG sessions tend to treat pain as if it didn't exist unless it's in spell form or some other unnatural imposed version of it, but one would think that the "average" vampire wouldn't be particularly thrilled at the idea of exposing themselves to fire, or freezing temperatures, or radiation exposure, even if they knew they could probably survive it and regenerate the damage later on.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Delarn
post Feb 6 2010, 12:46 AM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 628
Joined: 13-December 09
From: Montreal, Quebec
Member No.: 17,963



QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Feb 5 2010, 12:17 PM) *
But vampires have no allergy to UV or such. It is sunlight... But yeah i know this is the magical vampire/ biological vampire - discussion then. I prefer my vampires magical, so UV-lights and such won't have the effect (Maybe a spell called SUNLIGHT may), since it is not the sun. It is the power of life that burns the vampire (or the eye of god, or whatever weird explanation the vampires have).

Back to the topic: radiation should be no problem. Extreme temperatures on the other hand... i could guess that excecive cold could freeze the vampire down, so he can't move and get excessive damage to all wet tissue (brains and such) and as such MAY be destroyed... but that would take a LOT of cold, i think.


UV is sunlight...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Feb 6 2010, 12:49 AM
Post #10


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



BRodda: No. Unless the damaging effects of the cold or heat (or fire, if you prefer) can exceed the rate the vampire regenerates damage, it will be incapable of causing any permanent effects. Frostbite, as an example, is cell death due to extreme cold, most often occurring in extremities - this is precisely the type of effect regeneration repairs (cell/tissue damage & death). And if the vampire is not suffering from frostbite, the tissue will not freeze.

Eimi: Unless the damage is inflicted at a rate greater than the vampire's regeneration speed, they would likely feel little more than a 'tingling' sensation, as the tissue is repaired instantaneously as the injury is inflicted. While this may be an uncomfortable feeling, it would not be painful (it would also be far easier to ignore, or 'get used to' than pain; for some individuals, it may even be 'pleasant' in a way).



Edit: Delarn: Incorrect. Sunlight contains a variety of different wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation, of which ultraviolet light is one of. Sunlight is not composed purely of ultraviolet frequencies, and ultraviolet light alone is not sufficient to duplicate sunlight (sunlight actually includes three different frequencies of ultraviolet radiation, among others). I suggest you actually read what you link - preferably prior to making false statements about it.

Edit: Eimi: As an example, if the vampire is regenerating at a rate of 3 damage per combat turn, and suffering damage from exposure to fire at a rate of 2 damage per combat turn, the regeneration provides near-instantaneous compensation for the damage caused by the fire, resulting in no pain (due to lack of damage - it would never reach the nerves to send signals, and if it was somehow in direct contact with the nerves, the damage still would unlikely register due to the healing rate). The tingling sensation I suggested can be compared to the itching that commonly occurs when wounds (particularly cuts & scrapes) heal.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rystefn
post Feb 6 2010, 12:57 AM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 427
Joined: 22-January 10
From: Seattle
Member No.: 18,067



QUOTE (Delarn @ Feb 6 2010, 01:46 AM) *


No... Sunlight is a broad band of EM radiation which includes, but is not limited to, UV. The vampire is allergic to whole sunlight, not to individual bits and pieces from other sources. Again, due to the magical nature of the infection, one could make a case that it is not possible to technologically synthesize artificial sunlight in such a way as to trigger the allergy. If the intent was for raw UV to cause problems, the allergy would be to UV, not sunlight.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BRodda
post Feb 6 2010, 03:08 AM
Post #12


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 663
Joined: 30-June 06
From: Memphis, TN
Member No.: 8,811



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 5 2010, 07:49 PM) *
BRodda: No. Unless the damaging effects of the cold or heat (or fire, if you prefer) can exceed the rate the vampire regenerates damage, it will be incapable of causing any permanent effects. Frostbite, as an example, is cell death due to extreme cold, most often occurring in extremities - this is precisely the type of effect regeneration repairs (cell/tissue damage & death). And if the vampire is not suffering from frostbite, the tissue will not freeze.


According to the rules until they are in a situation where they are no longer making survival rolls from the environment the damage can't be healed.

Pg 137 SR4A
QUOTE
If the test fails, the character suffers Stun damage based on the harshness of the environment (DV = threshold x 2); she may not resist this damage. This Stun damage cannot be recovered until the character reaches civilization (or at least a situation where she is not forced to rely upon survival skills) and is able to rest for an 8-hour period.


So at best regeneration gives you a bonus to your survival dice pool to avoid taking the damage in the first place, but once you take it your screwed until your someplace out of the weather. Once out of the weather regeneration will kick in and they will be fine; but if they overflow in the wilderness they are dead just like anybody else.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Feb 6 2010, 04:48 AM
Post #13


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



I actually never noticed the "cannot be recovered" clause in that area. It then falls down to how a particular GM interprets "recovers", as that phrase is not used in any other section of the rules I am aware of (certainly not Healing).

The use of that phrase seems to imply that a character cannot naturally heal damage, & would not apply to artificial healing, such as magic or First Aid.

Rules as Written, it does not actually apply to anything, as there are no methods of "recovering" from damage presented - a stretch, as "recover" is generally a synonym for "heal", but still technically correct. Certainly something I will be clarifying in my House Errata.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Christian Lafay
post Feb 6 2010, 06:17 AM
Post #14


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 673
Joined: 9-May 08
Member No.: 15,965



Can Vampires operate interfaces such as touchscreens? Do they still have electricity flowing through them or no?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mordinvan
post Feb 6 2010, 07:17 AM
Post #15


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,444
Joined: 18-April 08
Member No.: 15,912



QUOTE (BRodda @ Feb 5 2010, 07:58 AM) *
In extreme temperatures they still burn or freeze. Vampires can still get heatstroke, hypothermia or frostbite. They might last a bit longer or regrow their nose, but you leave them in the cold long enough they will still freeze solid.

I'm not so sure about that. I figure that as soon as cells start dying (frostbite) they'll just be regenerated right away. I don't actually see this being anything more then extremely uncomfortable.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Professor Evil O...
post Feb 6 2010, 08:17 AM
Post #16


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Joined: 1-February 10
From: CalFree State
Member No.: 18,103



QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Feb 5 2010, 10:17 PM) *
Can Vampires operate interfaces such as touchscreens? Do they still have electricity flowing through them or no?


Yes. Vampire in SR are not "undead". They are suffering from a disease, a magical disease, but a disease non the less. They are closer to vampires in Blade than those in Dracula.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bushw4cker
post Feb 6 2010, 10:26 AM
Post #17


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 308
Joined: 2-November 09
Member No.: 17,830



Thanks for the excellent comments, I was thinking in extreme temperatures unprotected extremities like fingers and toes would snap off but would easily regenerate. Note to self, no more vampire PC's in my campaigns. This is my Third Post on a infected topic.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BRodda
post Feb 6 2010, 01:14 PM
Post #18


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 663
Joined: 30-June 06
From: Memphis, TN
Member No.: 8,811



QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Feb 6 2010, 02:17 AM) *
I'm not so sure about that. I figure that as soon as cells start dying (frostbite) they'll just be regenerated right away. I don't actually see this being anything more then extremely uncomfortable.


The cells aren't just dying. They are frozen. They can't heal until they melt. Once they melt they heal as normal. Or at least that's how I rule it. Regen doesn't melt stuff.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Delarn
post Feb 6 2010, 01:15 PM
Post #19


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 628
Joined: 13-December 09
From: Montreal, Quebec
Member No.: 17,963



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 6 2010, 12:49 AM) *
Edit: Delarn: Incorrect. Sunlight contains a variety of different wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation, of which ultraviolet light is one of. Sunlight is not composed purely of ultraviolet frequencies, and ultraviolet light alone is not sufficient to duplicate sunlight (sunlight actually includes three different frequencies of ultraviolet radiation, among others). I suggest you actually read what you link - preferably prior to making false statements about it.


Remove ultraviolet and you don't have sunlight ... So UV is sunlight and mostly the most damageable. And when you think of sunlight allergy in RL it's mainly to UVs. So if Sunlight is not UV then UV is not light either. Think that a whole need to have all component to be counted has a whole. So UV is sunlight ... Like Sunlight is visible spectrum and also Infrared.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Delarn
post Feb 6 2010, 01:22 PM
Post #20


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 628
Joined: 13-December 09
From: Montreal, Quebec
Member No.: 17,963



QUOTE (Rystefn @ Feb 6 2010, 12:57 AM) *
No... Sunlight is a broad band of EM radiation which includes, but is not limited to, UV. The vampire is allergic to whole sunlight, not to individual bits and pieces from other sources. Again, due to the magical nature of the infection, one could make a case that it is not possible to technologically synthesize artificial sunlight in such a way as to trigger the allergy. If the intent was for raw UV to cause problems, the allergy would be to UV, not sunlight.


Like I just explained, Sunlight is composed of UV, Visible Spectrum and Infrared. So remove one of the component and you don't have Sunlight you have lights. Then Alergy to sunlight is mainly alergy to UVs and not visible spectrum or infrared lights.

So the statement UV is sunlight is not quite true, but the point is that sunlight allergy is in fact UV alergy is true.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Brazilian_Shinob...
post Feb 6 2010, 03:05 PM
Post #21


Shooting Target
****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 28-July 09
From: Somewhere along the brazilian coast
Member No.: 17,437



QUOTE (Delarn @ Feb 6 2010, 10:22 AM) *
So the statement UV is sunlight is not quite true, but the point is that sunlight allergy is in fact UV alergy is true.


You may argue that RLTM sunlight allergy is caused by UV, but when we are talking about a ficticious disease provoked by an AWAKENED virus whose symptoms and nature aren't completely discovered, all bets are off.
Sure, vampiric allergy to sunlight could be only for the UV part, but could also be the whole spectrum too. In the end we can't know for sure unless a dev tell us which it is.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Delarn
post Feb 6 2010, 06:35 PM
Post #22


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 628
Joined: 13-December 09
From: Montreal, Quebec
Member No.: 17,963



QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Feb 6 2010, 04:05 PM) *
You may argue that RLTM sunlight allergy is caused by UV, but when we are talking about a ficticious disease provoked by an AWAKENED virus whose symptoms and nature aren't completely discovered, all bets are off.
Sure, vampiric allergy to sunlight could be only for the UV part, but could also be the whole spectrum too. In the end we can't know for sure unless a dev tell us which it is.


Then artificial light that does not contain UV and IR is not safe for them either because LIGHT would be the problem. Light to be called sunlight needs UV and IR with the visible spectrum. If the Sunlight is not the problem then it's the raw mana flowing with the sunlight that make them burn because of the Vampire strain of the virus is reactive to mana and not sunlight. (source for that argument : http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=29284 )

But I still think that the allergy to sunlight is from UV. (I think it was explained in 2nd or 3rd ed)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Professor Evil O...
post Feb 6 2010, 06:45 PM
Post #23


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Joined: 1-February 10
From: CalFree State
Member No.: 18,103



QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Feb 6 2010, 07:05 AM) *
Sure, vampiric allergy to sunlight could be only for the UV part, but could also be the whole spectrum too. In the end we can't know for sure unless a dev tell us which it is.


That's the real crux of the problem right there - we just don't have enough information. It's a glaring omission, and it would have been nice if it had been specified, especially with vampire PCs now being an option. It is certainly something that a 6th World scientist would have tested at some point.

In your own games I'd just make a ruling and run with it, either artificial lights can invoke the allergy or not. What wavelength or wavelengths is required will have little effect on game play, unless you rule that any artificial light hurts vamps (this is clearly not intended by the rules). It really depends on how much of a weakness you want the allergy to be - if it cannot be duplicated using tech it is much easier to avoid (and much less of a weakness) than if any properly equipped person can fry. Of course, even if you rule artificial light can't hurt vamps, it could make for an interesting additional flaw for a vamp PC to take, either as an allergy or a phobia.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Feb 6 2010, 06:51 PM
Post #24


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



No. We have plenty of information. & Delarn is, intentionally or not (aka troll or moron), he is spewing obvious bullshit.

Vampires have an allergy to sunlight. Ultraviolet light does not affect them in itself. Visible light does not affect them in itself. Nor does Infrared. It is the full combination of wavelengths that compose sunlight that is harmful to vampires.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Delarn
post Feb 6 2010, 07:52 PM
Post #25


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 628
Joined: 13-December 09
From: Montreal, Quebec
Member No.: 17,963



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 6 2010, 07:51 PM) *
No. We have plenty of information. & Delarn is, intentionally or not (aka troll or moron), he is spewing obvious bullshit.

Vampires have an allergy to sunlight. Ultraviolet light does not affect them in itself. Visible light does not affect them in itself. Nor does Infrared. It is the full combination of wavelengths that compose sunlight that is harmful to vampires.


I beg you pardon ? Can I have excuses ... Who are you to have the right to call me that ?

I just sent a tweet to the devs to define Sunlight and what cause Allergy to it ! We'll be fixed.

--- Edit ---
Albinos trait gives Allergy to sunlight ... Are they hit by VVHMH ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd July 2024 - 07:37 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.