Vampires Radiation and Extreme Temperatures, Is Radiation or Extreme Temperature Lethal to Vampires Options

[BRodda]

"pinkies" ? orks are green ?

Now what kind of UV arms them ... just kidding... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Pinkies are what orks used to call norms in the first few editions (IIRC).

[Delarn]

Pinkies are what orks used to call norms in the first few editions (IIRC).

I had the books in french back then

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

The biggest place your going to find large amounts of UV lights is the Ork Underground. Orks can see in UV, but humans can't. Its a way of making "pinkies" feel unwelcome.

Orks have low-light vision, right? Does this mean they can see on UV? If it is, then Elves can see in UV too. (Or anyone who is willing to spend less than 5k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for a good pair of cyber-eyes.

[Delarn]

Still haven't bothered to look up the reference, but I was browsing through Runner's Companion and the Albinism quality says that albinos, because they are extremely susceptible to UV light, have the Allergy (Sunlight). Not exactly relevant but sort of parallel to the course. A couple hundred years ago people made glosses off flimsier material than that.

Albinism
Bonus: 10 BP
Albinism is a genetic disorder, characterized by partial or
complete lack of pigmentation in the eyes, skin, or hair, resulting
in white hair or skin as well as pink and blue irises with bright red
pupils. Due to the lack of melanin pigmentation and subsequent
ultraviolet light protection, albino characters are photosensitive
and prone to sunburn. All ethnicities, metatypes, and metavariants
can manifest albinism.
Treat albinism as a Light Allergy against sunlight

The logic is that Allergy(Peanut) is always peanuts
If Sunlight allergy for Albino is UVs then it's UVs for everyone.

IS that it ?

[Ancient History]

The reasoning here is that if Allergy (Sunlight) from Source A is because of ultraviolet light, then it is reasonable that maybe Allergy (Sunlight) from Source B is because of ultraviolet light - though not definite. As I said, I'm fairly sure there's a mention of it somewhere, I'm just too damn busy to dig it out at the moment.

[Bushw4cker]

OMG I never even mentioned anything about Sunlight and/or UV in my Post. What is wrong with you people that you can't get off this Are Vampires allergic to Sunlight or are they allergic to UV Radiation, Keep this up so help me I'm going to make vampires in my campaign SPARKLE!! You want that!!! No I didn't think so! so If someone wouldn't mind please answer my original post question. Thanks for all you comments..it was fun to read them all even know you strayed a bit from topic.

SR4 Says Vampires are immune to age, pathogens and toxins, are they also immune to radiation and/or extreme temperatures? If they are, what kind of modifiers would they suffer? and what other HMHVV infected would also have the same immunity? Just HMHVV1? Thanks

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Except for extreme enviroment, which people are stil arguing, I think all the other questions were answered.

[darthmord]

Well, I've always followed the concept that specific trumps general.

The rules for environmental survival are general rules for that. So are the healing rules within that section.

A specific power clearly states what it can and cannot do under different circumstances.

Thus, I'd go with Regeneration keeping the person/animal in question upright and functioning in extreme conditions. Things that would require specialized gear to have a chance at survival (ya know, like outer space, or dancing on the core of a nuclear reactor), I would have to say no unless they have some sort of reasonable protection (primarily due to the massive damage being inflicted at a greater rate than what can be healed via Regeneration).

But Regeneration stopping working because the vampire is too hot or cold?!? I'll hoist the bullshit flag on that one.

BTW, AFAIAC... It's sunlight that vampires have a problem with. Not moonlight. Not mood lights. Not UV Lamps (though the vamp might get a tan). Not IR lamps. Remember, Magic in SR works off belief. Thus many ancient traditions have become modern day 'fact' because everyone believs them. I do recall the books mentioning some vamps having a psychosomatic reaction to garlic and mirrors (because that's what the vamp believes).

So waving a UV flashlight at a vamp in any campiagn I run will get the vamp playing along (while giggling maniacally inside) until he can put you out of his misery.

[BRodda]

But Regeneration stopping working because the vampire is too hot or cold?!? I'll hoist the bullshit flag on that one.

So in your games anything with regeneration (Infected, shifters, etc) can wander around the Antarctic for the 3 months of night at with temperatures at -40 to -94°F (-40 to -70°C) in the nude indefinitely without taking damage?

Hoisting my own flag at that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[BRodda]

Orks have low-light vision, right? Does this mean they can see on UV? If it is, then Elves can see in UV too. (Or anyone who is willing to spend less than 5k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for a good pair of cyber-eyes.

The rules used to be that thermo saw in InfraRed and Lowlight saw in UV. So different ends of the spectrum. So Elves and Trolls see in IR and Dwarfs and Orks in in UV.

Not sure if that is still the case, but I've always used it as a rule of thumb.

And to get this post back on track, the rules state that UV lights damage everyone if they are bright enough and exposed for a few minutes. (SR4A Pg 260) No notes on damaging vamps specifically so I say they are no more susceptible than anyone else.

Ultraviolet: Forensic and security lighting, used for catching dyemarked trespassers or locating fingerprints and other biological evidence. Ultraviolet lights emit light in both the ultraviolet and blue end of the visible light spectrum. When exposed to high levels of the light for several minutes or more, characters can suffer from glare (p. 136) if
not wearing amber-tinted eyewear or some form of flare compensation. They may also suffer from burns on unprotected skin as determined by the gamemaster (3P suggested).

[Mordinvan]

So in your games anything with regeneration (Infected, shifters, etc) can wander around the Antarctic for the 3 months of night at with temperatures at -40 to -94°F (-40 to -70°C) in the nude indefinitely without taking damage?

Hoisting my own flag at that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Depends on its magic and body score. You'd have to assign a damage code to those temperatures, and determine if they exceed the regen abilities of the entity in question. If they don't, then the entity is likely just going to need to eat more to compensate for the large energy expenditure of being in a continual state of regenerating damage.

[BRodda]

Depends on its magic and body score. You'd have to assign a damage code to those temperatures, and determine if they exceed the regen abilities of the entity in question. If they don't, then the entity is likely just going to need to eat more to compensate for the large energy expenditure of being in a continual state of regenerating damage.

There are damage codes for that (pg 137 SR4A)

Tough (Desert, High Mountains) DV6
Extreme (Arctic, Antarctic) DV8

They are for tests every 24 hours and damage is stun. People are claiming that as it is over 24 hours a regenerating creature will have no problem keeping up with the damage. I think it overpowering for the points cost that Shifters and Infected pay. For example Insulating Pelt costs 5 BP and only gives +3 to survival rolls.

This is one of those cases where there does need to be an errata because the 2 rules are global rules and neither specifically says that the other does or does not apply.

[Mordinvan]

There are damage codes for that (pg 137 SR4A)

Tough (Desert, High Mountains) DV6
Extreme (Arctic, Antarctic) DV8

They are for tests every 24 hours and damage is stun. People are claiming that as it is over 24 hours a regenerating creature will have no problem keeping up with the damage. I think it overpowering for the points cost that Shifters and Infected pay. For example Insulating Pelt costs 5 BP and only gives +3 to survival rolls.

This is one of those cases where there does need to be an errata because the 2 rules are global rules and neither specifically says that the other does or does not apply.

Just think about i for a second. A vampire with a good body, 5, and a good magic, 5, is regenerating with 10 dice. That is 3 boxes of damage every 3 seconds, or 1 box a second. I don't see it being reasonable that 6 boxes of damage over the course of 24 hours could outstrip that. You might get them with eventual hunger and fatigue, but actual damage to vital structures is simply not going to happen.

[BRodda]

Just think about i for a second. A vampire with a good body, 5, and a good magic, 5, is regenerating with 10 dice. That is 3 boxes of damage every 3 seconds, or 1 box a second. I don't see it being reasonable that 6 boxes of damage over the course of 24 hours could outstrip that. You might get them with eventual hunger and fatigue, but actual damage to vital structures is simply not going to happen.

I'm just thinking that the "can't heal" clause in the environmental damage description takes precedent. For example if the damage is cold damage, the tissue is frozen. Now healing the cell walls is no big deal, we both agree to that. My issue is that you can't heal frozen tissue until the ice is out of the way. Regeneration can't just create more body heat to thaw out the cells (or in the case of heat exposure to rehydrate them). The second that the regenerator gets his body temp up or gets shelter, then yes they can heal it.

Vampires are not animated dead, they have body heat and they need to keep it at normal human ranges to live. You get it up to high or to low and they will have issues. Less issues then a normal human, but at the extremes they should still worry about freezing solid.

(As a side note: Vamp in the desert. Does he need to drink more blood to stay hydrated and avoid the effects of the heat? Just wondering how you would handle it.)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

The rules used to be that thermo saw in InfraRed and Lowlight saw in UV. So different ends of the spectrum. So Elves and Trolls see in IR and Dwarfs and Orks in in UV.

Well, I don't know about SR1 or SR3, but SR 2 and 4 both say that Orks and Elves have Low-Light Vision and Dwarfs and Trolls have Thermosight.

[BRodda]

Well, I don't know about SR1 or SR3, but SR 2 and 4 both say that Orks and Elves have Low-Light Vision and Dwarfs and Trolls have Thermosight.

Opps that was a mistype on my part. your right, Elves and orks have low light and Trolls and dwarfs have thermo.

[Muspellsheimr]

There are damage codes for that (pg 137 SR4A)

Tough (Desert, High Mountains) DV6
Extreme (Arctic, Antarctic) DV8

They are for tests every 24 hours and damage is stun. People are claiming that as it is over 24 hours a regenerating creature will have no problem keeping up with the damage. I think it overpowering for the points cost that Shifters and Infected pay. For example Insulating Pelt costs 5 BP and only gives +3 to survival rolls.

This is one of those cases where there does need to be an errata because the 2 rules are global rules and neither specifically says that the other does or does not apply.

Regeneration is fine. The problem comes in with Insulating Pelt being incredibly shitty, and the Survival rules not particularly well done. I don't care what you say - it does not take a nude child 2-3 days to freeze to death in an arctic blizzard.



Rough idea off the top of my head - damage is is Stun, based on the environmental level (similar to how it is now). Damage is resisted, with Body + half Impact + appropriate modifiers (Insulation in arctic environments, for example). If you make the Survival Threshold (based on the environmental level - 0,1,3,6 scale), you reduce the level by 1 for determining damage. Damage is applied every ~1 minute.

[BRodda]

Regeneration is fine. The problem comes in with Insulating Pelt being incredibly shitty, and the Survival rules not particularly well done. I don't care what you say - it does not take a nude child 2-3 days to freeze to death in an arctic blizzard.



Rough idea off the top of my head - damage is is Stun, based on the environmental level (similar to how it is now). Damage is resisted, with Body + half Impact + appropriate modifiers (Insulation in arctic environments, for example). If you make the Survival Threshold (based on the environmental level - 0,1,3,6 scale), you reduce the level by 1 for determining damage. Damage is applied every ~1 minute.

I agree on the damage not being extreme enough for the survival tests. I tend to do it every hour, but that is a house rule.

In the end pick a way of handling it and make it consistent seams to be the only way to go for this quagmire.

[Muspellsheimr]

As for the Sunlight allergy. Although I have not yet thoroughly gone through Running Wild yet, there are no references in 4th to vampires being affected by the ultraviolet aspect of sunlight. Even more, it would not matter if there where.

Albinism, for example, grants an allergy to sunlight. It is a result of their increased sensitivity to ultraviolet light, but outside of sunlight, ultraviolet light does not mechanically affect them any differently from anyone else.


Also, do not spew "it should be common sense" bullshit. Common sense can vary depending on location, culture, & education, and often is not so common. Regardless of what precisely common sense is, it should not be necessary. If the allergen is to ultraviolet light, it should be Allergy (Ultraviolet Light), not Allergy (Sunlight), as the two are distinctly different (ultraviolet light includes sunlight [it is composed of ultraviolet light, among others]; sunlight does not include ultraviolet light [it does not include other frequencies of sunlight]).

[Delarn]

As for the Sunlight allergy. Although I have not yet thoroughly gone through Running Wild yet, there are no references in 4th to vampires being affected by the ultraviolet aspect of sunlight. Even more, it would not matter if there where.

Albinism, for example, grants an allergy to sunlight. It is a result of their increased sensitivity to ultraviolet light, but outside of sunlight, ultraviolet light does not mechanically affect them any differently from anyone else.


Also, do not spew "it should be common sense" bullshit. Common sense can vary depending on location, culture, & education, and often is not so common. Regardless of what precisely common sense is, it should not be necessary. If the allergen is to ultraviolet light, it should be Allergy (Ultraviolet Light), not Allergy (Sunlight), as the two are distinctly different (ultraviolet light includes sunlight [it is composed of ultraviolet light, among others]; sunlight does not include ultraviolet light [it does not include other frequencies of sunlight]).

Ok granted for the common sence bullshit. Game mechanic wise : When you Call a variable Allergy and put the description Sunlight into it and then say in an other description it is UV related. Then all that Variable description because UV oriented no mather what.

I would say that pnp games are jsut like computer games. Set a constant a way, then don't try to set it an other way. It's not common sense, it's computer literate sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Mordinvan]

I'm just thinking that the "can't heal" clause in the environmental damage description takes precedent. For example if the damage is cold damage, the tissue is frozen. Now healing the cell walls is no big deal, we both agree to that. My issue is that you can't heal frozen tissue until the ice is out of the way. Regeneration can't just create more body heat to thaw out the cells (or in the case of heat exposure to rehydrate them). The second that the regenerator gets his body temp up or gets shelter, then yes they can heal it.

Vampires are not animated dead, they have body heat and they need to keep it at normal human ranges to live. You get it up to high or to low and they will have issues. Less issues then a normal human, but at the extremes they should still worry about freezing solid.

(As a side note: Vamp in the desert. Does he need to drink more blood to stay hydrated and avoid the effects of the heat? Just wondering how you would handle it.)

I figure it would exfoilicate the frozen cells and replace them with new ones.
As for the desert. I'm not sure, I'd either go with they don't sweat and the regen helps maintain body temp 'somehow', or requiring them to seek out fluid supplements. I'm pretty sure they can't drink alcohol, but I can't remember if they can drink water. If not, that means they'd need like 12-16 liters of blood in a day, which is 4-5 dead people.....

[Mordinvan]

Regeneration is fine. The problem comes in with Insulating Pelt being incredibly shitty, and the Survival rules not particularly well done. I don't care what you say - it does not take a nude child 2-3 days to freeze to death in an arctic blizzard.



Rough idea off the top of my head - damage is is Stun, based on the environmental level (similar to how it is now). Damage is resisted, with Body + half Impact + appropriate modifiers (Insulation in arctic environments, for example). If you make the Survival Threshold (based on the environmental level - 0,1,3,6 scale), you reduce the level by 1 for determining damage. Damage is applied every ~1 minute.

Minute seems a bit harsh, as I would have a really low body of like 1-2, and no impact armor, but I'm pretty sure it would take more then 6-7 minutes in a hot desert to bake me and kill me.