Spell Defense, re-allocating it Options

[Panzergeist]

Once you have allocated dice to spell defense, can you use another free action to un-allocate them later in the same turn so you can use them on a spell, provided you haven't used them yet?

[Herald of Verjig...]

Free action to re-allocate. In short, yes.

[Glyph]

It doesn't expressly forbid it, so I don't see why not. I don't see allocating Spell Defense as being that inflexible. Plus, if you couldn't change it on the fly, they wouldn't have had to specify that Spell Defense dice don't refresh until the next Combat Turn once used.

[RedmondLarry]

The book says you can re-allocate Spell Defense dice to other uses if they haven't yet been used for Spell Defense, as Herald indicates.

Since it is a Free Action to re-allocate Sorcery dice, the magicians in our campaign state that they routinely walk around with all Sorcery Dice allocated to Spell Defense for themselves and others nearby. That way it's available for defense if a spell comes in unexpectedly, and costs them almost nothing (just a Free Action) to use the Sorcery dice for something else during the Combat Turn.

As a house rule for our campaign, we allow magicians to re-allocate Sorcery Dice for free when dice pools refresh at the start of subsequent Combat Turns. Without this house rule, a magician who uses all his Sorcery for spellcasting, for example, couldn't have any Spell Defense on the next Combat Turn prior to his first action.

The complexity of the rules for Sorcery dice sometimes working like a Skill and sometimes like a Pool doesn't add much value to the game, in my opinion. Many GMs are happy using the following simplification: Spell Pool alone is used for Spell Defense, without limit; Sorcery works like any other Skill, using the full value of the Skill each time it is needed. This is essentially the 2nd Edition way of handling Sorcery, and I recommend it for everyone that isn't anal about learning and following the published rules.

[Zazen]

[Herald of Verjig...]

You can still use the spell defense specialization with that house rule. It just requires a house sub-rule: dice for pure spell defense can be bought as a specialization of sorcery; apply all rules for specializations.

[Dashifen]

[Zazen]

The problem there is that when the character raises Sorcery later, their spell defense dice mysteriously disappear.

[Prototype]

I dunno, as a GM I have problems with the level of protection a reasonable grade initiate with shielding can offer against spells, especially if it is considered 'always on' when not allocated to spellcasting.

Initiate grade 6 renders you practically immune to spells, you and five mates, it's just a bit too much in my opinion. So I'm terribly anal about having PC's allocate shielding all of the time, and if they forget...

[Herald of Verjig...]

That's what I meant Dash.

[Zazen]

How do you explain IC how they lose a point of defense?

"Ok, you spent karma, time, and money increasing your mastery of magic. Lose 1 defense die. Do not pass go."


It's not a huge problem, but it could cause some resentment from the player, IMO. Best to leave it out or find another solution.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Once they stop whining about the lost karma when they improve any other specialization, they should be fine with that. If you want to be nicer, let them take a spell defense skill that cannot exceed half their sorcery skill.

[Zazen]

But when they improve other base skills, their specializations don't become worse. That'd be a pretty unique and strange effect. Your other solution is ok, but then every mage will have an extra defense die for 1 karma. Even ones with no interest in focusing on defense will go for that.

Anyway, I think all of these rules complicate things too much, which is what the original Spell-Pool-Only rule was trying to avoid.

[spotlite]

If it was going to be a unique specialisation (taking your point Zazen, but just an idea) you could make it something like: The spell defense specialisation of Sorcery is not used as per normal specialisation rules. Instead, it is factored in when calculating spell pool for the purposes of spell defense. For allocating spell defense, the magicians spell pool is therefore Intelligence, Willpower, Magic Rating and Sorcery(spell defense) divided by three.

It won't add that much in terms of power, and is limited in scope, but it stops the specialisation depowering when the main skill gets above it, and gives you a bit of an edge for your karma which you will then keep until you decide to improve it. A skill at R3 would only give you +1 spell defense, but at 6 would give you +2. Depending on your other attributes you might push your pool up sooner, but you know what i mean. But as its a specialisation it won't be costing you that much to improve it if you don't buy it at chargen.

If you didn't want to make it as a unique specialisation, and decided to adopt the Single Pool method where sorcery doesn't count, then disallow the specialisation and give them another of their choosing or the karma back. They won't sniff at either of those options, I suspect. If they really don't want to lose the benefits, then you're going to have to work something out. How about, in that case, an edge of equal rating to the skill which allows some extra spell defense or even general spell pool?

[Sunday_Gamer]

Hold up a second... just trying to wrap my brain around some of these house rules... if sorcery acts like any other skill, doesn't that make mages kinda overpowered? If they get a reflex booster spell they can start lobbing 3 spells at full sorcery dice per turn? Just trying to clarify.

Sunday

[mfb]

um, they can do that already. casting a spell is a complex action. if you get more than one complex action in a turn, you can cast more than one spell in a turn. this house rule makes them massively underpowered, because it's now much harder to cast higher-force spells without taking drain. but no one will ever be able to cast a spell on them, so it's all okay!

in case it's not clear, i think the house rule is kinda silly.

[Fortune]

[Sunday_Gamer]

I think the important difference is in treating SOrcery like any other skill.

If I have 2 actions and on my first action I use all my sorcery dice to cast a spell, I won't have any dice left to cast the second, right?

If sorcery is used as a constant number of dice it means every time I cast a spell I get my sorcery skill in dice and add some from my spell pool. The refreshing of the sorcery dice is what makes the huge difference, no?

Sunday

[Fortune]

[The White Dwarf]

Its easy, in its own way.

When the mage acts, you toss all the sorcery dice and spell pool into one big wad of dice... the magic dice. Use different colored ones so you can tell which is which.

As he spends dice, or allocates, move them into the correct piles or what have you, to keep track of whats where.

Anything spent does NOT refresh until a new combat turn. Thus mages with many actions will have to spread their dice thinner if they want to cast every turn.

Reallocating dice is a free action IF theyre not spent yet. If its spent its gone.

Just make sure that you always have enough dice of the right color (base skill or pool) to do each action (like casting without using more pool than base skill for example).

Problem solved.

[Fortune]

But dice used to cast a spell are not 'spent' in the same way as Pool dice, and so they do not need to be refreshed. They are always available.

[The White Dwarf]

Nope, thats the misconception. You *cant* just use sorcery every action to cast a spell. Therein lies the error most people make. Sorcery, once used, is out of commission like a pool, until a new combat turn. Maybe Ive totally misread something... but Im 99 percent sure and can go find pages if needed.

[Fortune]

Please do!

[Zazen]

I second that request :)

[Jason Farlander]

White Dwarf:

You are *almost* totally wrong.

What you are correct about is your understanding of when allocated dice refresh after being used. You are wrong in your assertion that spellcasting requires an allocation of dice.

Casting a spell is a complex action. Period. If you have multiple complex actions, you can cast multiple spells. There are only two reasons you would ever cast a spell at lower than your full sorcery skill:

1) if you have not only allocated but also used a greater number of spell defense dice in a given combat turn than you have in your spell pool.

2) if you want to cast two or more spells *simultaneously* (you must split sorcery/spell pool between them)

Thats it. Theres no reason not to allocate all of your sorcery/spell pool dice to spell defense on any turn you arent casting a spell, because its a free action to reclaim any unused dice on your next turn for spellcasting. As long as you never use more dice for spell defense than you have in your spell pool, your sorcery will remain constant for spellcasting purposes.