SR4 LE Previews Available, It's ALIVE!!! Options

[RunnerPaul]

Taking customer's money for this length of time, without communicating with them; unforgivable.

There was the apology email with $10 store credit voucher sent out to preorder holders at the end of last August, so it's not exactly correct to say they haven't communicated with the customerbase. If you want to say they haven't communicated enough, I could certainly see that as a fair assesment, but to say that they just haven't communicated at all doesn't reflect the facts.

[Elve]

Given that my order was processed by an owner's wife, who responded to my question from her personal email address and not a company address,

At least you get answers... My Emails to Battleshop remain unanswered...

[Caadium]

At least you get answers... My Emails to Battleshop remain unanswered...

Oh, I never once got an answer from Battleshop. Not once. To get my address updated I had to email Adam (prior to his departure) and he got me to Troy (also prior to his departure). In fact, I still have open, unanswered trouble tickets on file with them about my address change.

I was referring to the email I got after the notification that my LE was being processed. That email said if I had any questions to respond so i did; a couple of times until I finally got a response. That response was from Tara Bills and her personal email address; suggesting that she was the one processing the orders.

[Synner667]

The last few comments underline some of the reason why Catalyst has been crap for a year, and what's happening now is just it all coming to a head...
...And why I'd so turned away from SR.

It's been broken for a long time, so I don't really care.

I did kind of care 13 months ago when I ordered, but the lack of communication, rubbish BattleCorps, money grubbing, badly proofed SR v4, etc = no more biz from me.

[wusselpompf]

The one clarification I'd like to offer is that Catalyst does not send books to game shops, so this is not a case where Catalyst personnel decided to send books to game shops instead of to those who have pre-ordered them. I'm not sure how it is that the books showed up in stores before the street date, but it is not because Catalyst personnel value the stores more than the pre-orders. Work continues to fill those pre-orders, and I hope all of you who ordered will have your books soon.

Jason H.

the only explanation I see is that CGL/CGL's distributor shipped the copies for wholesalers pretty early - especially when you consider that some people in Germany got their LE two days ago. I dunno, but I'm guessing that the LEs weren't sent via air mail (which would probably be very expensive) but via ship, which means they must have been shipped at least two weeks ago.
I am not complaining about that, since I am one of the people who actually benefited from that situation, but for the sake of the satisfaction of customers buying directly at CGL it would have been better to process their orders before those of the wholesalers.

just my two cents

[Black Jack Rackh...]

There was the apology email with $10 store credit voucher sent out to preorder holders at the end of last August, so it's not exactly correct to say they haven't communicated with the customerbase. If you want to say they haven't communicated enough, I could certainly see that as a fair assesment, but to say that they just haven't communicated at all doesn't reflect the facts.

I used that credit to buy a set of SR dice which BattleShop said was "In Stock" after 3-4 months wait time I was told, oh whoops, sorry bout that we forgot to update our inventory. But we have these other newer cooler dice. So agreed to them, AND THEN was told, oh whoops sorry bout that we don't have them yet, but they'll be here some day...

Don't know why I expected anthing else. So, yea about that store credit, it's worth everthing it's printed on.

Mark

[Mr. Man]

There was the apology email with $10 store credit voucher sent out to preorder holders at the end of last August

Did everyone really get one of these?

I did not get such an email.

[darthmord]

Did everyone really get one of these?

I did not get such an email.

I've got one in my email. I was saving it for a rainy day though. Not sure if it would still be valid now.

[Tiger Eyes]

As I understand things, all books are sent to your distribution center, and instead of distributing the pre-orders from there, they are then shipped to Seattle to be processed. If this is correct, that basically means that the pre-orders arrive in Seattle around the same time the other copies arrive at the retailers distribution center. Given that my order was processed by an owner's wife, who responded to my question from her personal email address and not a company address, I find it hard to believe that CGL distribution is more efficient than Diamond (or whoever is doing it these days). They could well be in a box, not put out yet, and store personnel see it sitting there. Depending on the terms and the vendor and industry I've seen this happen before.

I wouldn't say that CGL values stores more than pre-orders.

From an insider's POV:

Generally, a publisher gives a street date to their distributors, who then ensure all the retail stores can receive the item at the same time. Distributors give the street date to retailers, and for the most part in my experience, retailers are very good about adhering to that street date. Honor among stores and whatnot (so every store has the same sales opportunity as every other store).

The general distributor would normally send all the books on the same date, so Battleshop would receive theirs at the same time as the other distributors - and that gives Battleshop a week, generally two, to pre-package everything so all the books ship on the street date (this is how I always saw Troy Garner, the Battleshop shipping fellow, do things). The stores receive theirs in time to put their books on the shelf on the street date, too. So pre-orders ship on the street date, and stores can sell on the street date. That way it ensures a retail shop isn't being hurt by direct pre-sales, which can damage relationships between a retailer and the book seller, since it if presales arrive prior to books on store shelves, you (hypothetically) encourage customers to abandon their FLGS. (And in my experience, most RPG publishers want to encourage the health of the FLGS because of the far-reaching benefits to the gaming community in total, vs the short-term benefit of higher direct sales.)

Since I see that CGL posted a May 3rd street date, and then retailers started selling books on April 27th, my only guess would be that two separate street dates were given. (Not a happy situation and not one that happens in a professional environment.)

[Caadium]

I used that credit to buy a set of SR dice which BattleShop said was "In Stock" after 3-4 months wait time I was told, oh whoops, sorry bout that we forgot to update our inventory. But we have these other newer cooler dice. So agreed to them, AND THEN was told, oh whoops sorry bout that we don't have them yet, but they'll be here some day...

Don't know why I expected anthing else. So, yea about that store credit, it's worth everthing it's printed on.

Mark

Of course that store credit won't be useful for anything unless its to discount another purchase. The "I'm Sorry" credit is really more of a "Give us more of your money" ploy. I honestly would have been a LOT happier if in August I got an email saying, "We are sorry, here's why this version of a book that is already on shelves was delayed, here's how things have been fixed, and here's a timeline of when you can expect it." Instead, I got "give us more of your money, and wait another 6 months to hear anything." As a customer, I'm not bought off with a coupon. In fact, I'm insulted by it. Communication should have been the key, but that's not CGL policy.

From an insider's POV:

Generally, a publisher gives a street date to their distributors, who then ensure all the retail stores can receive the item at the same time. Distributors give the street date to retailers, and for the most part in my experience, retailers are very good about adhering to that street date. Honor among stores and whatnot (so every store has the same sales opportunity as every other store).

The general distributor would normally send all the books on the same date, so Battleshop would receive theirs at the same time as the other distributors - and that gives Battleshop a week, generally two, to pre-package everything so all the books ship on the street date (this is how I always saw Troy Garner, the Battleshop shipping fellow, do things). The stores receive theirs in time to put their books on the shelf on the street date, too. So pre-orders ship on the street date, and stores can sell on the street date. That way it ensures a retail shop isn't being hurt by direct pre-sales, which can damage relationships between a retailer and the book seller, since it if presales arrive prior to books on store shelves, you (hypothetically) encourage customers to abandon their FLGS. (And in my experience, most RPG publishers want to encourage the health of the FLGS because of the far-reaching benefits to the gaming community in total, vs the short-term benefit of higher direct sales.)

Since I see that CGL posted a May 3rd street date, and then retailers started selling books on April 27th, my only guess would be that two separate street dates were given. (Not a happy situation and not one that happens in a professional environment.)

I understand the need for FLGS and the reason a company doesn't want to piss them off by stepping on their feet with pre-orders. In fact, except for a book like the LE, I always buy from one of my FLGS for that very reason. I'm lucky enough to live in Sacramento where I have options when it comes to which FLGS I want to shop with. Considering that some of these stores are as bad as the stereotype comic/games store gets, it says something that they are more organized than CGL.

[Athenor]

There was the apology email with $10 store credit voucher sent out to preorder holders at the end of last August, so it's not exactly correct to say they haven't communicated with the customerbase. If you want to say they haven't communicated enough, I could certainly see that as a fair assesment, but to say that they just haven't communicated at all doesn't reflect the facts.

Hm. Well, as I've never once received any e-mail from Battlecorps for any of my purchases, address updates, or any of that.. this kind of bums me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I would've bought a print copy of Battlerun.

[RunnerPaul]

After doing a board search, I found this post from Adam:

This applies to any order that contains books that were pre-ordered before August 11th and had a street date of August 11th. If your orders fall into this category and you haven't received an email with your coupon, please email quartermaster@battlecorps.com with your order info.

By that description, I shouldn't have gotten one, because my only outstanding pre-order at the time was the SR4A-LE, which did not have a street date. Since this was apparently unrelated, and the one I got was by accident, I take back what I said upthread.

[Tanegar]

So, yea about that store credit, it's worth everthing it's printed on.

Worked fine for me.

[Dixie Flatline]

Since I see that CGL posted a May 3rd street date, and then retailers started selling books on April 27th, my only guess would be that two separate street dates were given. (Not a happy situation and not one that happens in a professional environment.)

Or the May 3rd street date was not given by the publisher, or there was actually no street date for retailers.

That I can verify easily. I'll go to my not so friendly LGS and ask them.


(Edited to redact speculation. It does me no good)

[Bull]

"Street Date" is misleading a bit.

For gaming products, 99% of the time, Street Date simply means "The date at which the product should be readily available in many, if not all gaming stores". Often, this date is based solely on when the publisher and distributor estimate that the book will reach gaming shops. There are exceptions to this, but usually only on really large, big name releases.

The only ones I can think of in recent years were D&D 4th and White Wolf's new World of Darkness edition a few years back. In both cases, because demand was so high for he new books, product was shipped a couple weeks in advance so that stores could be assured to have plenty of stock on hand, and to be able to set up displays, arrange in store demos, and the like. In both of those cases, however, many stores broke the "street date" and were selling it early. White Wolf didn't really care, so far as I know. WotC wasn't happy, but didn't pursue the matter, because it's not a good idea to try and shut down or cut off your supply chain, when the market is so narrow.

With other larger mass media, mainly movies and music (and sometimes games), they do hold to a firm street date, which is why the confusion comes in. In these cases, the stores cannot sell the item in advance, or they risk sanctions from the companies producing the material. (I worked for a bunch of years at a Suncoast dealing with movies, and for a couple years at a Gamestop doing video games, so I know the retail side of these, at least).

Anyway, long story short, there is no hard "Street Date" for RPG material. There's no "You'll get it on this date and not before" mandate. The Street Date is just there so that we, as consumers, have some idea of when we can expect to be able to go up to our local gaming shop and pick the book up.

Bull

[Caadium]

Anyway, long story short, there is no hard "Street Date" for RPG material. There's no "You'll get it on this date and not before" mandate. The Street Date is just there so that we, as consumers, have some idea of when we can expect to be able to go up to our local gaming shop and pick the book up.

Bull

Or, go into the local gaming shop to look at the book we bought over a year ago.

[Bull]

Hey, I'm not defending the lateness of the book. Only clarifying the Street Date situation, to the best of my knowledge (Which is also not an insiders perspective either).

Trust me, I've been mostly unemployed for the last year, and that $80 I dropped on March 11th last year could have been useful elsewhere.

Bull

[Caadium]

Hey, I'm not defending the lateness of the book. Only clarifying the Street Date situation, to the best of my knowledge (Which is also not an insiders perspective either).

Trust me, I've been mostly unemployed for the last year, and that $80 I dropped on March 11th last year could have been useful elsewhere.

Bull

It wasn't meant as a dig at you. Just the absurdity of the situation. Last year, my total game budge wound up being around $125 for the entire year, so I understand what you are saying. That was a big part of it, yet I've got nothing to show for it.

[BlueMax]

When the news hit, I linked the announcement in emails to the SR groups of which I am a member.

Not a week goes by without some sort of complaint related to me forcing them to buy the book. Perhaps I would even go so far as to be anti CGL like some but... After buying the newer Battletech books, I am a convert.

If they can move Shadowrun books from this nightmare, to something as beautiful and well edited as Masters and Minions or A Time of War... they can have my entire paper gaming budget each year.

BlueMax

[Adam]

"Street Date" is misleading a bit.

No, it's not. Conflating "Release Date" and "Street Date" as you have done is what confuses and misleads people. With the small number of distributors in the gaming industry, it's perfectly possible to have Street Dates to gaming stores.

[Dixie Flatline]

Anyway, long story short, there is no hard "Street Date" for RPG material. There's no "You'll get it on this date and not before" mandate. The Street Date is just there so that we, as consumers, have some idea of when we can expect to be able to go up to our local gaming shop and pick the book up.

Again, I'm paying a premium for inferior service. Businesses go under on just such a plan.

Christ I'd be okay if someone came out and said "you'll get your book by the 10th". I could live with that. Sort of. Fact of the matter is, aside from Jason, who has about as much say in this as a fart in the wind, we ain't hearing dick from the company.

Rational, logical thought would dictate that ordering directly from the company should get you a product in as timely a manner as going to the local gaming shop. The only solace I have is that if my LGS actually had the book, it'd be opened, read through, scuffed, the spine would be broken, it would be smeared with greasy potato chip fingerprints, and then sold for 120 dollars.

And guess what? For that premium and inferior service, they're barely managing to stay in business. What a surprise.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Did everyone really get one of these?

I did not get such an email.

Got mine... Used it for a few PDF's last week...

Keep the Faith

[Bull]

No, it's not. Conflating "Release Date" and "Street Date" as you have done is what confuses and misleads people. With the small number of distributors in the gaming industry, it's perfectly possible to have Street Dates to gaming stores.

Ahh, my apologies. You're right. I did. Like I said, I was judging it based on what I knew from the two retail outlets I worked at that did deal with strict Street Dates for merchandise, and generally speaking, Release Dates and Street Dates are interchangeable in that area. Both terms are used to mean the same thing. I've also heard both terms used by the guys at my local game store. And again, they just drop things on the shelf pretty much as soon as Diamond or Alliance or whoever ships them in.

And I do agree it's possible, just not saying it's done very often, nor that most game stores bother to adhere to it. I know my game store back home start handing out pre-ordered copies of D&D4 and World of Darkness as soon as they came in, which was a week or better before they were supposed to be available, and I remember seeing one bookstore and hearing about at least one more in Indy that were selling the WoD book several days before it's release at Gen Con.

So I guess where's this lie then? If CGL (or any game company) sets a Release Date, or Street Date, or what have you, is it on the stores to not sell before then? Are they even told about this? Or is it on the Distributor? Or is it on the Game Company itself?

Bull

[nemafow]

Seeing as my question about 'Vice' was never answered, can anyone point me to an email address to have it removed from my order, so at least I have even a slight chance of actually receiving my LE?

Edit: Emailed quartermaster, but I know that won't go anywhere, any other suggestions?

[nemafow]

Whats the point of 'pre-ordering' if your not going to get it before its released at the 'FLGS'?

You mays well buy the bloody book from the FLGS and get them to pay the ridiculous shipping prices and make some profit for themselves. You also pay the same price, and get it before everyone else. Wheres the logic in that?

Edit: spelling