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> Is everyday life more difficult for a mage?
Siege
post Feb 10 2004, 10:47 PM
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Telling the difference between a legitimate focus/fetish and the latest Amerind fashion accessory would be difficult, if not impossible for people unable to magically assense.

As for every day complications -- do you wantonly display magical ability? If not, odds are nobody pays you a second glance. At least not because you may (or may not) be magically active.

As much a fan as I am of GTFMF tactical planning, hermetics don't have to gesture or incant to cast their spells, if I remember the magical system correctly. The only requirement is LOS which can very quickly become SOL. This is worse if the mage wears combat fatigues and armor like the rest of the hostiles.

Shamen have to chant/sing/invoke their magical ability, which makes them easier to target than their hermetic bretheren, but previously invoked spirits can make them much more dangerous.

-Siege
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Phaeton
post Feb 10 2004, 10:49 PM
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GTFMF?
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BitBasher
post Feb 10 2004, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE
Shamen have to chant/sing/invoke their magical ability
dont have to. It's their shamanic mask that makes them more visible.
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Siege
post Feb 10 2004, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (Phaeton)
GTFMF?

Geek The Fragging Mage First.

Bit: Yes, the Totem mask is another tell-tale sign, but for low Force spells, the totem mask is very minor. Of course, in the middle of a furball, odds are the Force ratings aren't going to be on the low end. :grinbig:

-Siege
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Lilt
post Feb 10 2004, 11:26 PM
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Many shamans would reasonably go in under the cover of a low-force improved invisibility spell which, I think most people agree, hides the shamanic mask whilst leading to the line:
Goon 1: "Geek the Mage!"
Goon 2: "Where?"
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Siege
post Feb 10 2004, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (Lilt)
Many shamans would reasonably go in under the cover of a low-force improved invisibility spell which, I think most people agree, hides the shamanic mask whilst leading to the line:
Goon 1: "Geek the Mage!"
Goon 2: "Where?"

Goon 1: "Suppress that hallway!"
Goon 2: "Why?"
Goon 1: "To see if anything goes 'oh frag.'"

Funny story -- NPC mage goes invisible and sneaks around the corner. Sec guards are advancing up the hallway. The PC Mage, not paying attention, says: "I stick my arm around the corner and trigger a burst from my SMG."

Did I fail to mention the PC Mage was "dating" the NPC? :grinbig:

-Siege
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Mardegun
post Feb 11 2004, 12:11 AM
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It seems to me that a mundane has zero chance of spotting a mage, unless they are casting. The rules in SR3 under noticing magic only talk about casting spells. It even says that noticing active magic is near impossible since most spells are invisible. It only becomes an issue for astrally perceiving characters.
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GoldenAri
post Feb 11 2004, 12:40 AM
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ose thousands of people he's surveying probably constitute a crowded biomass (+2, maybe even +4 perception TN) and trying to distinguish a particular glow type of glow against the biomass is probably somewhat more difficult, adding between +2 to +4 for camofluage.

You wouldn't get the that camouflage modifier. The whole point of the crowded biomass modifier is that it's difficult to distinguish particular auras in a crowd.
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GoldenAri
post Feb 11 2004, 12:46 AM
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is there a limit to the force of spirit a shaman can conjure too?
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toturi
post Feb 11 2004, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE (GoldenAri)
QUOTE
ose thousands of people he's surveying probably constitute a crowded biomass (+2, maybe even +4 perception TN) and trying to distinguish a particular glow type of glow against the biomass is probably somewhat more difficult, adding between +2 to +4 for camofluage.

You wouldn't get the that camouflage modifier. The whole point of the crowded biomass modifier is that it's difficult to distinguish particular auras in a crowd.

Well, it's your game. By Canon, crowded biomass and camouflage modifiers are 2 different things.
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Fortune
post Feb 11 2004, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (Siege)
Shamen have to chant/sing/invoke their magical ability, which makes them easier to target than their hermetic bretheren...

What gives you that idea? The flavor text of some of the older books indicates that Magicians in general, and shamanic casters in particular sometimes embellish the act of spellcasting in order to impress the foolhardy, but makes it clear that this is not in any way a necessity.
QUOTE (GoldenAri)
is there a limit to the force of spirit a shaman can conjure too?

Shamanic conjuring is subject to the same Force restrictions as Hermetic.
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toturi
post Feb 11 2004, 02:32 AM
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QUOTE (Siege)
Shamen have to chant/sing/invoke their magical ability, which makes them easier to target than their hermetic bretheren, but previously invoked spirits can make them much more dangerous.

-Siege

Come on, Siege. You know better than that. Shamans do not need to sing/dance/chant/invoke. The point of all that song and dance(pun is intended) is sometimes the shaman is centering which a hermetic can do too.
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Siege
post Feb 11 2004, 02:37 AM
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Page 163 of the BBB under "The Shamanic Mask"

"or her chants might resemble an eagle's cry."

However, Fortune and Tort are both right -- I'm probably mixing Sam of the first SR trilogy with actual mechanic.

My mistake.

-Siege
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Siege
post Feb 11 2004, 05:51 AM
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Interesting note:

BBB, page 162 "Noticing Magic"

"Noticing if someone is using a magical skill requires a Perception Test. The base Target Number is 4, plus the caster's Magic Attribute, minus the Force of the magic being performed."

-Siege
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Wish
post Feb 11 2004, 08:42 AM
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Keep in mind that the rule only applies to noticing the act of using magic, not the magical effect itself. If a ball of flame leaps from someone's fingers and smacks you in the face, you've got a pretty good clue that they were using magic, even if you didn't notice the spellcasting.
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toturi
post Feb 11 2004, 08:51 AM
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Fireball/flamethrower doesn't work that way. All you are going to notice is that you got hit by a ball of flame etc. You are not going to have any idea who did it. :noflame:
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Shanshu Freeman
post Feb 11 2004, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE (toturi)
Fireball/flamethrower doesn't work that way. All you are going to notice is that you got hit by a ball of flame etc. You are not going to have any idea who did it. :noflame:

Depends on how the person manifests it right?
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 11 2004, 11:11 AM
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Yep. But you can always tell that elemental fire magic is at work when people only get surface burns, but ammunition which shouldn't go off at temperatures under ~1500C suddenly explodes, and always straight at the carrier, and similar strange shit goes on with all other explosive substances.

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Feb 11 2004, 11:11 AM
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toturi
post Feb 11 2004, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman)
QUOTE (toturi @ Feb 11 2004, 08:51 AM)
Fireball/flamethrower doesn't work that way. All you are going to notice is that you got hit by a ball of flame etc. You are not going to have any idea who did it. :noflame:

Depends on how the person manifests it right?

Well, if you are going to dance around, crying,"I toasted him good," I am going to recommend removing your PC from the gene pool.
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Lilt
post Feb 11 2004, 12:22 PM
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By P182, SR3: Elemental Manipulation spells create damaging mediums in the physical world which the caster directs towrds the target. The matter or energy is stopped by any physical obstuctions in the path. To me that says the caster must create a stream/bolt of fire from somewhere very near him (IE: his hands, eyes, crotch, or ass) that travels and is probably visible in the physical world.

By the spell description:
QUOTE (Flamethrower/Fireball @ P197, SR3)
This spell creates flames that the caster can direct. The flames flash into existance and burn-out after strikingthe target,...

The "Noticing Magic" roll is simply to notice the caster creating the physical medium. The actual magic done in an elemental manipulation spell is akin to extending and aiming a concealed cyber-flamethrower. When the spell goes off however, I doubt the stream/bolt of flame would be that easy to hide.
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Mardegun
post Feb 11 2004, 12:30 PM
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So do we all agree that unless the spell says it is visible, like for element manipulations, a mundane will not notice the spell.  This means that any focus or fetish are basically invisible, because they look like ordinary objects ... assuming they aren't hidden from view anyway.
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Lilt
post Feb 11 2004, 12:33 PM
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I would agree with that statement Mardegun, Yes.
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Siege
post Feb 11 2004, 12:42 PM
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A subject will not notice the spell, but if given the chance to observe the spellcaster, has a reasonably good chance to realize what the spellcaster is doing.

Previously, I was unaware that it was possible to realize a hermetic mage was casting a spell except for astral perception or obvious spell effect.

The rule doesn't mention how an observer can discern the magical skill is being used, only that it is.

-Siege
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Lilt
post Feb 11 2004, 12:58 PM
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Well: it says that it's based on a magician's intense look of concentration, whispered incantations, small gestures, and shamanic mask. IE: It's a general perception test covering vision and hearing. It thus would be fairly easy to add perception TN mods to that by being invisible and concealed by a spirit whilst wearing a helmet with blackened visor in a dark alley.

They could still see the gout of flame from a flamethrower though.
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Siege
post Feb 11 2004, 01:01 PM
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True, although I was under the impression incantations and gestures qualified as geasa.

-Siege
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