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> SR4 shooting two guns
Evilness45
post Mar 2 2010, 03:58 PM
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Ok, I'm very aware of how shooting with two guns simultaneously works (split dice pool, apply off hand penalty, no lasersight/smartlink). However, my character is using a super ruger warhawk, which can only fire once per passes, yet still takes a simple action.
My idea was to use another warhawk in the other hand, in order to shoot this gun using the second simple action that is left to me. The rules remains silent on that one, and I would like to know these:
Do I keep my smartlink bonuses if I alternate between guns with my actions.
Beside the off hand penalties, what other things should I know?
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Karoline
post Mar 2 2010, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE (Evilness45 @ Mar 2 2010, 10:58 AM) *
Ok, I'm very aware of how shooting with two guns simultaneously works (split dice pool, apply off hand penalty, no lasersight/smartlink). However, my character is using a super ruger warhawk, which can only fire once per passes, yet still takes a simple action.
My idea was to use another warhawk in the other hand, in order to shoot this gun using the second simple action that is left to me. The rules remains silent on that one, and I would like to know these:
Do I keep my smartlink bonuses if I alternate between guns with my actions.
Beside the off hand penalties, what other things should I know?


Yes and nothing. Both guns will operate exactly as if that is the only gun you are holding in your hands, and the only downside to this is the off hand penalty you'll take when firing your second gun.

Also, I thought warhawks where SA, not SS. Weird.
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Squinky
post Mar 2 2010, 04:10 PM
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Yeah, this was pretty much standard before the firearm rules in Arsenal allowed upgrading it to SA. Just don't forget shooting at two separate targets adds a modifier.
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Evilness45
post Mar 2 2010, 04:19 PM
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Wait what? I can upgrade it to SA?
...
Somebody in the team might get himself a free warhawk...
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Stingray
post Mar 2 2010, 04:28 PM
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Firing Selection Change SS to SA (small modification) 300 yen (Arsenal pg 149)
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Karoline
post Mar 2 2010, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Stingray @ Mar 2 2010, 11:28 AM) *
Firing Selection Change SS to SA (small modification) 300 yen (Arsenal pg 149)


All hail Arsenal!
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Evilness45
post Mar 2 2010, 04:33 PM
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zomg thanks alot.
My GM will be angry that I somehow can make my hacker even better at combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Stingray
post Mar 2 2010, 04:38 PM
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do not forget to add Personalized Grip (1 RC) (Arsenal)
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Karoline
post Mar 2 2010, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE (Evilness45 @ Mar 2 2010, 11:33 AM) *
zomg thanks alot.
My GM will be angry that I somehow can make my hacker even better at combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


No reason a hacker can't be good with a gun. Some Muscle Toner, a skillsoft, a smartgun, and you're likely to hit your target. Honestly I'd prefer the idea of a hacker running around with a single modified gun than two revolvers. After all, you'll have to reload twice as often now. Be sure to pick up a couple speed loaders.
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Stingray
post Mar 2 2010, 04:56 PM
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My Street sammy uses this:
Concealed Holster (shoulder holster) gun holster in one side, ammonition pouch (from Arsenal) (for 3 Speed loaders) in other side
(look a like Galco Miami Classic RL holster)
150 yen.
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Evilness45
post Mar 2 2010, 05:15 PM
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Originaly, I thought of having a single revolver. Coolness factor, mostly. My character is smartlinked and already have a decent skill or 4 (6 revolvers). Since I discovered that I was the only gunner in the team, I had to slightly deviate from the usual hacker stereotype.

No need for silly skillsoft, bring on the real thing!

Oh, and I already have a speed loader. I never had to use it though: fights tend to be over quickly with that gun.
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FriendoftheDork
post Mar 2 2010, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (Stingray @ Mar 2 2010, 05:28 PM) *
Firing Selection Change SS to SA (small modification) 300 yen (Arsenal pg 149)


That's ridiculously cheap... well ok it costs more than the gun itself but it's also one of the cheapest heavy pistols there is.. and with SA probably the best. I mean, as damaging as an assault rifle and better penetration?

I blame Dirty Harry for this. But at least he wasn't shotting it SA speed.

In any case making a revolver semi-automatic is pretty much impossible without changing it so much you might as well say it's a new gun. I'd expect modding a SA pistol to become fully automatic would be alot easier and less invasive.
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Doc Byte
post Mar 2 2010, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (Stingray @ Mar 2 2010, 05:38 PM) *
do not forget to add Personalized Grip (1 RC) (Arsenal)


And an increased cylinder.
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Warlordtheft
post Mar 2 2010, 05:39 PM
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And the ammo selector, then you can have 8 rds, of your choice loaded and decide which ammo type to use (stick'n shock, gel, regular, ex-ex, or apds) with every shot. Can't do that with an automatic without spilling bullets.
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Stingray
post Mar 2 2010, 05:44 PM
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..and improved range finder
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Karoline
post Mar 2 2010, 05:47 PM
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And the flying modification.
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The Jopp
post Mar 2 2010, 05:54 PM
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Ruger Super Warhawk [3120Y]
A modern version of an old cavalry revolver with an underbarrel single shot 12 gauge shotgun shell.
[1] Increased Cylinder
[3] Underbarrel Weapon [Enshiro Hatamoto II –Barrel Reduction / Smartlink-]
[1] Skinlink
[1] Semi Automatic Modification
Top-Mounted Smartlink

The heavy pistol was inspired by the Lematt revolver that would have 9 shot cylinder and a single shotgun underbarrel round.

It's good to have a shotgun blast of flechettes when the oppossition least expect it.

Just don't believe that this gun will have that much concealability...
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Tanegar
post Mar 2 2010, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE (FriendoftheDork @ Mar 2 2010, 12:18 PM) *
In any case making a revolver semi-automatic is pretty much impossible without changing it so much you might as well say it's a new gun. I'd expect modding a SA pistol to become fully automatic would be alot easier and less invasive.

I think the SS thing reflects a single-action revolver (must be cocked manually before each shot). Modding it to SA makes it double-action (the hammer cocks itself as you pull the trigger). At least that's my rationale.
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Stingray
post Mar 2 2010, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 2 2010, 08:12 PM) *
I think the SS thing reflects a single-action revolver (must be cocked manually before each shot). Modding it to SA makes it double-action (the hammer cocks itself as you pull the trigger). At least that's my rationale.

your rationale is correct.
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X-Kalibur
post Mar 2 2010, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (The Jopp @ Mar 2 2010, 09:54 AM) *
Ruger Super Warhawk [3120Y]
A modern version of an old cavalry revolver with an underbarrel single shot 12 gauge shotgun shell.
[1] Increased Cylinder
[3] Underbarrel Weapon [Enshiro Hatamoto II –Barrel Reduction / Smartlink-]
[1] Skinlink
[1] Semi Automatic Modification
Top-Mounted Smartlink

The heavy pistol was inspired by the Lematt revolver that would have 9 shot cylinder and a single shotgun underbarrel round.

It's good to have a shotgun blast of flechettes when the oppossition least expect it.

Just don't believe that this gun will have that much concealability...


I like it, only I would swap the skinlink for a smartlink or an ammo skip system.
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Caadium
post Mar 2 2010, 08:02 PM
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A character I used to run for used 2 modifed Super Warhawks. However, his theme was more for the dual pistols even if the SA upgrade made more sense. Here are a couple of things to keep in mind.

Recoil from 1 hand affects the other.
We used the Free action "Change Linked Device Mode" to swap the Smartlink from 1 gun to the other. Some might agree or disagree, but this is how I ran it (and the player agreed).
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Stingray
post Mar 2 2010, 08:18 PM
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Ruger Super Warhawk (250 yen)
Smartgun System (external, top mount) (400 yen)
Skin link (50 yen, 1 Slot)
Personalized grip (100 yen, 1 Slot)
Firing Selection Change (Small mod SS-> SA) (300 yen 1 Slot)
Improved Range Finder (1000 yen 1 Slot)
Increased Cylinder (500 Yen 1 Slot)
Ammo Skip System (250 yen 1 Slot)

Final Price is 2850, all 6 slots used.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Dakka Dakka
post Mar 2 2010, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 2 2010, 09:02 PM) *
Recoil from 1 hand affects the other.
This is a houserule. Recoil accumulates for additional shots in an action phase with the same weapon. The only exception is when two weapons are fired simultaneously. So if you shoot each wepon only once there is no need for recoil compensation, since each weapon shoot only its first shot.
QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 2 2010, 09:02 PM) *
We used the Free action "Change Linked Device Mode" to swap the Smartlink from 1 gun to the other. Some might agree or disagree, but this is how I ran it (and the player agreed).
I can see the basis in the rules there, but we didn't bother.

@Evilness45: Why revolvers? Apart from the possibility for different ammo in one clip they have only drawbacks to pistols (automatic or otherwise)
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Evilness45
post Mar 2 2010, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Mar 2 2010, 03:46 PM) *
@Evilness45: Why revolvers? Apart from the possibility for different ammo in one clip they have only drawbacks to pistols (automatic or otherwise)

Because the Warhawk is a revolver.
Must I explain why I use that gun?

Oh, and he right about the recoil. Recoil form one weapon goes to the other. It's not a houserule.

This post has been edited by Evilness45: Mar 2 2010, 10:49 PM
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Remnar
post Mar 3 2010, 03:52 AM
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QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 2 2010, 06:12 PM) *
I think the SS thing reflects a single-action revolver (must be cocked manually before each shot). Modding it to SA makes it double-action (the hammer cocks itself as you pull the trigger). At least that's my rationale.


I'm sure this is probably what the writers intended, but I always interpreted it (in the case of the super warhawk) as the massive muzzle-flip/recoil you get out of a .44 mag (also my vision of a super warhawk). Guess that's always been my impression when trying to work on followup shots with my .45 compared to my .44 mag.

The fact that they would still make a single-action revolver in 2070 AND dub it as a "combat weapon" (as opposed to a hunting weapon, where single action revolvers really do shine) seems silly to me.

Then again, artwork for several of the shotguns show them to clearly be pump actions, yet they fire SA, so I never know what the developers are thinking. Goes back to keeping actual reality out of Shadowrun firearms and just running with the rules.

As a side note, if you look up some videos of cowboy action shooting, experienced shooters can work a single action revolver nearly as fast as semi-autos, while maintaining excellent accuracy.
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