Ok, I'm very aware of how shooting with two guns simultaneously works (split dice pool, apply off hand penalty, no lasersight/smartlink). However, my character is using a super ruger warhawk, which can only fire once per passes, yet still takes a simple action.
My idea was to use another warhawk in the other hand, in order to shoot this gun using the second simple action that is left to me. The rules remains silent on that one, and I would like to know these:
Do I keep my smartlink bonuses if I alternate between guns with my actions.
Beside the off hand penalties, what other things should I know?

Yes and nothing. Both guns will operate exactly as if that is the only gun you are holding in your hands, and the only downside to this is the off hand penalty you'll take when firing your second gun.

Also, I thought warhawks where SA, not SS. Weird.

Yeah, this was pretty much standard before the firearm rules in Arsenal allowed upgrading it to SA. Just don't forget shooting at two separate targets adds a modifier.

Wait what? I can upgrade it to SA?
...
Somebody in the team might get himself a free warhawk...

Firing Selection Change SS to SA (small modification) 300 yen (Arsenal pg 149)

All hail Arsenal!

zomg thanks alot.
My GM will be angry that I somehow can make my hacker even better at combat.

do not forget to add Personalized Grip (1 RC) (Arsenal)

No reason a hacker can't be good with a gun. Some Muscle Toner, a skillsoft, a smartgun, and you're likely to hit your target. Honestly I'd prefer the idea of a hacker running around with a single modified gun than two revolvers. After all, you'll have to reload twice as often now. Be sure to pick up a couple speed loaders.

My Street sammy uses this:
Concealed Holster (shoulder holster) gun holster in one side, ammonition pouch (from Arsenal) (for 3 Speed loaders) in other side
(look a like Galco Miami Classic RL holster)
150 yen.

Originaly, I thought of having a single revolver. Coolness factor, mostly. My character is smartlinked and already have a decent skill or 4 (6 revolvers). Since I discovered that I was the only gunner in the team, I had to slightly deviate from the usual hacker stereotype.

No need for silly skillsoft, bring on the real thing!

Oh, and I already have a speed loader. I never had to use it though: fights tend to be over quickly with that gun.

That's ridiculously cheap... well ok it costs more than the gun itself but it's also one of the cheapest heavy pistols there is.. and with SA probably the best. I mean, as damaging as an assault rifle and better penetration?

I blame Dirty Harry for this. But at least he wasn't shotting it SA speed.

In any case making a revolver semi-automatic is pretty much impossible without changing it so much you might as well say it's a new gun. I'd expect modding a SA pistol to become fully automatic would be alot easier and less invasive.

And an increased cylinder.

And the ammo selector, then you can have 8 rds, of your choice loaded and decide which ammo type to use (stick'n shock, gel, regular, ex-ex, or apds) with every shot. Can't do that with an automatic without spilling bullets.

..and improved range finder

And the flying modification.

Ruger Super Warhawk [3120Y]
A modern version of an old cavalry revolver with an underbarrel single shot 12 gauge shotgun shell.
[1] Increased Cylinder
[3] Underbarrel Weapon [Enshiro Hatamoto II –Barrel Reduction / Smartlink-]
[1] Skinlink
[1] Semi Automatic Modification
Top-Mounted Smartlink

The heavy pistol was inspired by the Lematt revolver that would have 9 shot cylinder and a single shotgun underbarrel round.

It's good to have a shotgun blast of flechettes when the oppossition least expect it.

Just don't believe that this gun will have that much concealability...

I think the SS thing reflects a single-action revolver (must be cocked manually before each shot). Modding it to SA makes it double-action (the hammer cocks itself as you pull the trigger). At least that's my rationale.

your rationale is correct.

I like it, only I would swap the skinlink for a smartlink or an ammo skip system.

A character I used to run for used 2 modifed Super Warhawks. However, his theme was more for the dual pistols even if the SA upgrade made more sense. Here are a couple of things to keep in mind.

Recoil from 1 hand affects the other.
We used the Free action "Change Linked Device Mode" to swap the Smartlink from 1 gun to the other. Some might agree or disagree, but this is how I ran it (and the player agreed).

Ruger Super Warhawk (250 yen)
Smartgun System (external, top mount) (400 yen)
Skin link (50 yen, 1 Slot)
Personalized grip (100 yen, 1 Slot)
Firing Selection Change (Small mod SS-> SA) (300 yen 1 Slot)
Improved Range Finder (1000 yen 1 Slot)
Increased Cylinder (500 Yen 1 Slot)
Ammo Skip System (250 yen 1 Slot)

Final Price is 2850, all 6 slots used.

This is a houserule. Recoil accumulates for additional shots in an action phase with the same weapon. The only exception is when two weapons are fired simultaneously. So if you shoot each wepon only once there is no need for recoil compensation, since each weapon shoot only its first shot.
I can see the basis in the rules there, but we didn't bother.

@Evilness45: Why revolvers? Apart from the possibility for different ammo in one clip they have only drawbacks to pistols (automatic or otherwise)

Because the Warhawk is a revolver.
Must I explain why I use that gun?

Oh, and he right about the recoil. Recoil form one weapon goes to the other. It's not a houserule.

I'm sure this is probably what the writers intended, but I always interpreted it (in the case of the super warhawk) as the massive muzzle-flip/recoil you get out of a .44 mag (also my vision of a super warhawk). Guess that's always been my impression when trying to work on followup shots with my .45 compared to my .44 mag.

The fact that they would still make a single-action revolver in 2070 AND dub it as a "combat weapon" (as opposed to a hunting weapon, where single action revolvers really do shine) seems silly to me.

Then again, artwork for several of the shotguns show them to clearly be pump actions, yet they fire SA, so I never know what the developers are thinking. Goes back to keeping actual reality out of Shadowrun firearms and just running with the rules.

As a side note, if you look up some videos of cowboy action shooting, experienced shooters can work a single action revolver nearly as fast as semi-autos, while maintaining excellent accuracy.

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually shoot faster than an SA with good accuracy. They can go crazy fast.

But what are they shooting at, and under what conditions? Runners in combat are maneuvering, dodging, and shooting at moving targets who are themselves shooting back. I'd be pretty surprised if you could do all that and fan a hammer at the same time.

Hmm, good point, but still, I don't see why the warhawk couldn't just have the hammer go automatically just like on a semi-automatic. I mean I know you can just get the modification to do that, but it seems like that would be standard on any kind of combat weapon. I suppose the warhawk relies more on 'wow' factor and such than pure combat efficiency.

On the other hand, a combat turn (And your basic non-augmented IP) is 3 seconds, and I imagine you could work out two shots in three seconds with even a moderate amount of skill with a revolver.

It's simple why they "can't" do that usually.

A semi-automatic pistol uses the gaz expansion to load a new round in the chamber. A revolver can't do that.
There are exceptions to this. See Mateba autorevolver.

Well, you still need *something* to feed the first round of a magazine or open the chamber for clearing the gun. A pump is bigger and heavier than a classical cocking handle/lever, but it has an additionnal advantage.

Look at a real-life shotgun, the the SPAS-12. It can be operated in both modes (pump-action or gaz). The semi-auto is for "normal" use, the pump allow you to quickly clear a misfire or operate the action with specialty rounds (batons, tear gas, whatever) that may be too low-pressure to cycle it automatically.

Hmmm
I Think that Switching to another target( with 1Weapon ) causes the +2 Penalty
2 different Weapons on 2 different targets is OK because you don't switch !

HokaHey
Medicineman

As said before, double action is not the same as semi-automatic. And having the Ruger as a single-action revolver is just unlikely because double-action has been the standard for quite some time in 2010 already - why go back? The reason why I think the designers chose the "single shot" speed is because I imagine the trigger to be hard and the recoil too heavy to fire quickly with accuracy. In which case a semi-automatic modification either means turning the weapon into a real semi-auto like the Desert Eagle, or making the trigger light and lowering the recoil.

Also, in arsenal there are revolvers that have SA fire mode, but they are often of lighter calibre and does less damage and penetration than the Ruger Super Warhack.

Which is why I think the semi auto mod for the Warhawk is too cheap.

Also, yeah you can probaby fire even single-action .45 revolvers really fast, but then you don't get the stability of using two hands to control recoil, and the accuracy would probably go down.

Also, you can easily squeeze off 10 rounds from a 9mm semi auto pistol in 3 seconds in RL - but not with as much accuracy.

The rules in SR both assumes the characters are very accurate in their shots and that you aim some betwen shots rather than just blaze away, thus RoF in this game is way lower than in RL. For instance, alot of automatic weapons can get off 10 rounds in a single second... that's 30 in a typical round, which you need multiple passes to be able to do in SR. And a cyclic rate of 600 rpm, which most submachine guns and higher has.

Actually you get -2 penalty for each target beyond the first. Shooting at 2 different targets at the same time with 2 weapons would probably be even harder than shooting at one target first and then switching to another. It's hard to focus one more than one place at the same time with the (meta)human eye.

Thats why You have to split your Pool while shooting Simultaniously
I'm talking/posting about :
1st simple Action
right Revolver shoots right Target
2nd simple Action
left Revolver shoots left Target

With a "right Foot first,left Foot second" Dance
Medicineman

The -2 for asdditional targets is not limited to shooting with the same weapon. So even in your example the second shot would get -2.

Oh Well,Well
I was certain the -2 where for switching the Target....
Well,Well

JahtaHey
Medicineman

You can't argue with the DAKKA DAKKA!

but you can have interesting Discussions

HokaHey
Medicineman

Only if you use both weapons at the same time.

It usually depends on the shoot, often it involves moving/running between stations and taking out multiple targets. They are usually judged on time and accuracy, and often will have to switch between firearm types during the stages (shotgun, rifle, revolver). Some shoots actually require you to take more than 6 six shots, and with actual "cowboy action" type weapons, that means you need to reload (slow) or bring another hand gun (much faster). Regardless of the situation the principle they use could still be adapted.

Basically you hold your weapon with both hands, as you would any other, but adjust your offhand so that your thumb has easy access to the hammer. Then you time your actions so that while you are recovering from each shot (dealing with recoil) your offhand is engaging the hammer and by the time you are back on target your firearm is ready to go. Not as simple, a bit slower, but with practice I'd wager not ALL that different. You can't spray but for higher recoill, aimed, shots I'd be just as good.

I would recommend, however, for some more examples of good speed shooting looking up the IPDA and other defensive shooting leagues online. There's often videos and some of the pros are pretty incredible in terms of speed and accuracy. IPDA and the like often try to simulate "combat situations" involving running and shooting from multiple points of cover, engaging multiple targets, combat reloads, the works. Interesting stuff.

Another thought: If one mods the Warhawk with Electronic Firing and Ammo Skip System the hammer would be rendered superfluous, wouldn't it?


Ruger Super Warhawk 2.0

- Internal Smartlink (1)
- Electronic Firing (2)
- Ammo Skip System (1)
- Firing Selection Change to SA (1)
- Increased Cylinder (1)
- Trigger (and Hammer) Removal (-)

Good point. The hammer would actually get removed as part of the electronic firing mod though. Most likely the space would be needed to add the sparker or whatever is used for electronic firing.

Also, a small electric motor to spin the ammo cylinder.