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[spacebug]

My gaming group is about to begin a Shadowrun 4 campaign. None of us have played the fourth edition rules before.

My character will be the group's hacker, but both myself and the GM are finding the matrix rules a bit confusing (and we've decided to completely ignore Unwired for now). Is there any kind of beginners guide to hacking that we might find useful, preferably with some examples?

This post has been edited by spacebug: Mar 10 2010, 02:52 AM

[SleepIncarnate]

It might be easier to ask us questions on where you're confused and we can explain it. What's the issue?

[Squinky]

There are some cheat sheets available on Aaron Paveo's Site:

http://pavao.org/shadowrun/cheatsheets/

Might help to see a practical example.

[Draco18s]

Don't. Hire an NPC hacker. The GM just makes a few rolls for "response threat level" until the NPC bugs out and you're on your own. Until then anything you need gets done.

Hacking in SR4 is akin to the grapple rules in D&D:
An absurdly complicated sub-game in which only one member at the table gets to participate in, sucking up valuable session time in which the result is:
Hacker wins.

If someone at the table wants to be a hacker, be a hardware hacker (maglock passkeys, lock picks, etc.) or hell, a troll with low logic. *FIST INTO SERVER* "This look like hard drive. I take. Analyze later."

[Neraph]

Hacking in SR4 is akin to the grapple rules in D&D:
An absurdly complicated sub-game in which only one member at the table gets to participate in, sucking up valuable session time in which the result is:
Hacker wins.

Actually I just finished my session with my group. The hacker was traced and arrested. Super-incriminating info, his resonance prints all over the place. It's messy.

[Draco18s]

Actually I just finished my session with my group. The hacker was traced and arrested. Super-incriminating info, his resonance prints all over the place. It's messy.

Oh, bad results happen, yes. I'll grant you that. But the last time my group tried to pull something like that the GM delegated the sub-game to me where I was rolling the node against the player, while neither of us were involved in the various wetwork happening at the other end of the table (which, frankly, was more interesting than trying to look up rules, hide the fact that the node was tracing him--because he didn't detect it--retcon half the rolls because I missed a rule--turns out he did--and ending up at: Hacker Wins).

[Johnny B. Good]

Actually I just finished my session with my group. The hacker was traced and arrested. Super-incriminating info, his resonance prints all over the place. It's messy.

Given we run sort of a brown moehawk campaign and my GM isn't making us be too anal about cleaning up afterwards, there's still a couple precautions I usually take.

1. Take a walk in the park in a nice neighbourhood when you hack. Sit down on a nice park bench or something.
2. Subscribe to an anonymizer. What's this, you have to hack into a satellite owned by somebody in NAN and another in Hong-Kong to trace my techie? More paperwork than it's worth man (Unless there's a datasteal involved, but even then it's still a lot of trouble).
3. Delete yo' prints and wipe yourself from the access logs. You can do it yourself or have a sprite do it for you.

[ShadowPavement]

This is what I usually use. My wife plays our hacker, which she loves, but she's not a rules person. This level of rules seems to work the best for our style of play.

Matrix Basics

[Ryu]

The thread in my sig isn´t updated for SR4A, but maybe it helps.

[OneTrikPony]

Actually I just finished my session with my group. The hacker was traced and arrested. Super-incriminating info, his resonance prints all over the place. It's messy.

How did he get traced? I thought that was basicly imposible to do if the hacker was runing a stealth program at any level above 3.

[Malachi]

I highly recommend Ryu's Introduction to the Matrix thread.

Also if you want an example of Matrix stuff used in the course of a run then check out the writeup for the first link in my signature. About post #15 is where the Matrix action happens, I believe.

I firmly believe that you are doing yourself an extreme disservice by ignoring Matrix stuff altogether. I think it is entirely possible to have a Matrix specialist in a group and not bog down the game. Simplify the rules to whatever works for you. I find the game extremely fun with a Matrix specialist.

[kjones]

How did he get traced? I thought that was basicly imposible to do if the hacker was runing a stealth program at any level above 3.

There's lots of ways this can happen. Consider a piece of IC or a security spider with a decent Analyze program. Or a firewall whose immediate threat response is not necessarily to trip an alarm, but rather notify one of the above.

Let's say I spot your hacker invading my system, but he doesn't know that I've noticed, and I'm not going to tip him off. I send in some IC running Analyze, Track, and Stealth. The IC finds the hacker with Analyze, and starts tracking him - the hacker doesn't notice because of the Stealth program.

[Fatum]

Oh, bad results happen, yes. I'll grant you that. But the last time my group tried to pull something like that the GM delegated the sub-game to me where I was rolling the node against the player, while neither of us were involved in the various wetwork happening at the other end of the table (which, frankly, was more interesting than trying to look up rules, hide the fact that the node was tracing him--because he didn't detect it--retcon half the rolls because I missed a rule--turns out he did--and ending up at: Hacker Wins).

So what you are saying is "if you don't know the rules, hacking is boring". Sure it is.
Otherwise SR4E hacking is not that bad - it rarely takes more than a few dice rolls, and it's quite fun if you describe it right.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh, bad results happen, yes. I'll grant you that. But the last time my group tried to pull something like that the GM delegated the sub-game to me where I was rolling the node against the player, while neither of us were involved in the various wetwork happening at the other end of the table (which, frankly, was more interesting than trying to look up rules, hide the fact that the node was tracing him--because he didn't detect it--retcon half the rolls because I missed a rule--turns out he did--and ending up at: Hacker Wins).

Interesting... My experiences with the Hacking rules have been nothing but positive, even though my Hacker does not always win... Hmmm...

Keep the Faith

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

How did he get traced? I thought that was basicly imposible to do if the hacker was runing a stealth program at any level above 3.

Not true...

Keep the Faith

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

How did he get traced? I thought that was basicly imposible to do if the hacker was runing a stealth program at any level above 3.

It is quite easy to trace somebody, unless of course you start putting proxies between you and the tracer, but at this point your response is being severely reduced.

[Draco18s]

So what you are saying is "if you don't know the rules, hacking is boring". Sure it is.
Otherwise SR4E hacking is not that bad - it rarely takes more than a few dice rolls, and it's quite fun if you describe it right.

Emphasized for emphasis.

It is quite easy to trace somebody, unless of course you start putting proxies between you and the tracer, but at this point your response is being severely reduced.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)
AFAIK there are no response limitations for hacking from behind one or more nodes to hide your tracks.

Interesting... My experiences with the Hacking rules have been nothing but positive, even though my Hacker does not always win... Hmmm...

So I've heard. Unfortunately the only fun I've ever seen from a "hacker" character was the one 3E game I played where I was more of a rigger. I did remarkably little on the matrix side and almost no hacking.

I also died to a space laser after defecting to Deus ("Stop shooting! I'll join you! I'll join you!" *1 box of physical left*).

[OneTrikPony]

I'm a little rusty but IIRC the stelth program's rating directly subtracts dice from the pool of the Spider or IC trying to track. Right?

So IC 3 running track(or is it trace?) 3 and analyze 3 (could run stealth 3 and needs to but that will lower the tracking persona's responce) The Tracking persona has a dice pool of 6. (If you make it a difficult node the pool will be 8 or 10.)

The intruding Hacker is allready running Stealth because he needs to run Stealth to hack the node. By default (unless it's a noob player who hasn't read the book) the Hacker is running Stealth 5.

This makes the track pool 1, 3 or 5. I don't recall the mechanid directly but I think the track test is an extended test (2x the target's Stealth) complex actions +1 for each redirect action the hacker performed before he entered the node. So minimum the tracking persona needs 10 hits.

For a rating 3 node that's 30 complex actions
for a rating 4 node thats 10 complex actions
for a rating 5 node thats 7 complex actions

Unless you're running over watch on a security system while your team sloggs around in the meat world and you don't have an agent to take care of the menial stuff, how often does a hacker hang out in a node for 10 complex actions?

I should also say that one of the funnest games I've played in the last couple years was just me and one character. A technomancer. That was about a year ago.

[SpellBinder]

The threshold for tracking a user is Computer+Track (10, Complex Action) extended test, while a running Stealth program acts as a negative dice pool modifier. A Redirect Trace is an opposed Hacking+Spoof vs. Computer+Track, and the net hits the redirect gets is added to the threshold. SR4a, pages 231-232. Unless the spider's a complete noob with poor software, he/she will be able to track someone who's running a Stealth 3 program.

Also, unless there was a technomancer spider that could examine the hacked node within a number of hours equal to the rating of the complex form that was used in the hack job, there is no Resonance trace to find. Resonance signatures can only be detected by resonance beings (SR4a, page 243). Even then it's a Matrix Perception (3) test just to notice the resonance signature, and may require a memory test to recognize it again. If a TM has the time, usually only two rounds at most, one can take a number of Complex Actions to erase a resonance trace equal to the number of hours it would otherwise last. The access ID of a TM is completely unreliable otherwise (Unwired, page 135; in short, TM's always and automatically spoof an access ID).

Oh, and on a run where I was playing a technomancer I did hang out in a node for more than 10 complex actions. Thing is, within those first three rounds I disarmed the Analyze program and deleted spider's accounts (late night job, and they weren't on). Hung around to remotely control automated forklifts to help the rest of the team loot a factory warehouse. Left my meat body at a coffin motel before hand on the off chance of a possible trace.

[Cain]

So what you are saying is "if you don't know the rules, hacking is boring". Sure it is.
Otherwise SR4E hacking is not that bad - it rarely takes more than a few dice rolls, and it's quite fun if you describe it right.

Even if you know the SR4.5 rules, decking is slow and involved. The decker goes off solo, while the other players go out for pizza. There are ways of mitigating this problem, but you still end up with a sub-game that leaves the other players out of it.

[Fatum]

Emphasized for emphasis.
Unfortunately the only fun I've ever seen from a "hacker" character was the one 3E game I played where I was more of a rigger. I did remarkably little on the matrix side and almost no hacking.

Uh, descriptions are up to GM completely, and if he isn't too good at them, surely not only the Matrix part suffers.
And I believe the key word in your statement is "3E".

Even if you know the SR4.5 rules, decking is slow and involved. The decker goes off solo, while the other players go out for pizza. There are ways of mitigating this problem, but you still end up with a sub-game that leaves the other players out of it.

Funny enough, as I said, never had problems with that, despite both playing hackers a lot and GMing for groups that don't shy away from hacking. Sure, if you're not limiting the hacker to on-location hacks, he's the only one involved in the whole biz - but as I said, it's rarely much more than a dozen or so dice rolls.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)
AFAIK there are no response limitations for hacking from behind one or more nodes to hide your tracks.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/read.gif) Ask and you shall receive:

A hacker can also route his connection through a proxy server as a means of hindering traces. This increases the threshold by +4 for Tracking Tests for each proxy server used. The drawback, however, is that each proxy server reduces the hacker’s Response by 1.

[Draco18s]

Uh, descriptions are up to GM completely, and if he isn't too good at them, surely not only the Matrix part suffers.
And I believe the key word in your statement is "3E".

Um. That was my good hacker experience. I had fun. I loved that character and that game. I haven't seen anyone have that kind of fun in 4E with the group I run with. The closest is our current sniper who uses drones for a tac net (and a guard dog).

Funny enough, as I said, never had problems with that, despite both playing hackers a lot and GMing for groups that don't shy away from hacking. Sure, if you're not limiting the hacker to on-location hacks, he's the only one involved in the whole biz - but as I said, it's rarely much more than a dozen or so dice rolls.

A dozen dice rolls with choices and decisions being made, some descriptive text....yeah. Like a half-hour unless there's cybercombat. Now you have a combat scenario where only one person is engaged and the dice fly back and forth (only there's no tactics because its the fucking matrix and having cool attack programs, dodging, cover, yadda yadda don't exist). By the time you're done the rest of your players left to get pizza.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/read.gif) Ask and you shall receive:

Thanks.

[Fatum]

Actually, around a dozen minutes tops without cybercombat, and around half an hour maximum with it. Glass cannons, remember?
Sides, the team has a good reason to be watching the hacker go, inject him with boosters or pain-tolerance giving drugs and such.

[Malachi]

Even if you know the SR4.5 rules, decking is slow and involved. The decker goes off solo, while the other players go out for pizza. There are ways of mitigating this problem, but you still end up with a sub-game that leaves the other players out of it.

Actually, I have found that the SR4 Matrix rules allow a GM to make Matrix stuff as involved or as light as they need to be given the situation. In previous editions, Matrix runs were their own "mini-game" that had very rigid rules. Matrix in SR4 puts so much just in the purview of the GM, it allows the GM to resolve mechanics faster or slower as they see fit.